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Unread 07-30-2010, 07:38 PM   #256
-JD-
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubiOR View Post
I just ordered the replacement (53010624AC)
Where? Everyone seems to be indicating out of stock - indefinite back order.

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Unread 07-30-2010, 08:26 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -JD- View Post
Where? Everyone seems to be indicating out of stock - indefinite back order.
Its hit and miss you really have to burn up the yellow pages calling dealers to find one.


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Unread 07-30-2010, 10:26 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -JD- View Post
Where? Everyone seems to be indicating out of stock - indefinite back order.
The trademotion.com link that 2006_Sport posted at post 234 I guess we'll see if it shows up next week...
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Unread 07-30-2010, 11:26 PM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubiOR View Post
The trademotion.com link that 2006_Sport posted at post 234 I guess we'll see if it shows up next week...
I thought about it, and I can't see why they would have it if other places don't. Let us know if you get it next week.
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Unread 07-31-2010, 03:27 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubiOR View Post
This is my question also. I just ordered the replacement (53010624AC) and will install as soon as I can. But are we sure it will last or am I just delaying the inevitable? Can someone who has installed a new one comment?
I just checked the P/N and date code on my '06. It's 53010624AC, 106052-REV-E.

Has anyone had a failure on the Rev E part?
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Unread 07-31-2010, 06:05 PM   #261
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As a general observation, it seems chrysler is not wasting time on anything but new sales. I have a back order dating 2009. The excuse is always the same; the "new" shipment date is......... whenever. Think twice about buying a jeep or any other chrysler product.
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Unread 07-31-2010, 09:59 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tshively View Post
It is called cam/crank sync. To get it close as possible you need a scan tool.
according to the FSM :-

connect DRB scan tool to the data link connector. gain access to CAM/CRANK RELEARN screen on the DRB scan tool

I personally didnt bother with the scan tool when checking out mine for wear, just very careful re-installing and the vehicle is running fine

someone asked about the hardness of the pinion. just had a look at a tech drawing for a similar pinion and it specifies 70-75 Shore. not sure what that is when converted to Rockwell C as my refeernce books are at work, but it is bloody hard
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Unread 07-31-2010, 10:43 PM   #263
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Well boys and girls after beating my head on the wall I've found a solution to dealing with Chrysler not having this part in stock nor producing it.

I got a old style CPS distributor from a 1999 and tore it apart to see if its different in anyway from the CPS assembly in the 2004-06 4.0 engine. The conclusion is aside from the reluctance wheel at the top the shaft being different, the bushing, oiling passages, shaft, etc are all the same as the 04-06 style.

So we established that the old style CPS and pre CPS distributor assemblies (except for the reluctance wheel) are the same and those earlier CPS and pre CPS distributor assemblies had no problems with long term wear of the bushing or gear.

The reason for the bushing wear/failures that result in the CPS spinning around or sudden stripping of the gears is because as the gear wears down it allows the camshaft to "push" the shaft around rather than spin it. This force makes uneven pressure on the bushings which results in their wear and catastrophic failure.

So the only problem we are faced with is the gear on the bottom. Well I did some looking around and Crown Automotive makes a replacement gear for around $15.00 P/N #83504635

I found several vendors that carry this part in stock.

Another option is to just go to your local junkyard and get the CPS assembly from a 1999-04 and steal the gear off it. I also checked on ebay and there was about 8 sellers with 99-04 CPS assemblies for $20-30.00

!!!!!IMPORTANT!!!!!
This is only a solution to those that have mild wear on their CPS gear and no wear to their camshaft gear. Also when you remove the gear it will allot the shaft to slide out the top of the CPS housing. Be sure to inspect it for any scaring, striations or uneven wear. If do notice any uneven wear then your CPS assembly can't be reused with the new gear.

So knowing that there is an option IF YOU CATCH IT EARLY, all of you with 04-06 4.0 owners need to pull your CPS and replace the gear. Don't trust the date code from Chrysler, if you have one of the new style CPS spend the $20 and save your self from a huge bill and allot of frustration.


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Last edited by TheFog; 08-01-2010 at 12:01 AM..
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Unread 08-01-2010, 02:46 AM   #264
chmo
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Thanks TheFog!

now that is goood news ... I was hesitating to pull mine (and to get stuck without a solution).
This will encourage me to take a peek
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Unread 08-01-2010, 05:19 AM   #265
bonza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkp View Post
I just checked the P/N and date code on my '06. It's 53010624AC, 106052-REV-E.

Has anyone had a failure on the Rev E part?
see post #87
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Unread 08-01-2010, 06:42 AM   #266
roadkill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFog View Post
Well boys and girls after beating my head on the wall I've found a solution to dealing with Chrysler not having this part in stock nor producing it.

I got a old style CPS distributor from a 1999 and tore it apart to see if its different in anyway from the CPS assembly in the 2004-06 4.0 engine. The conclusion is aside from the reluctance wheel at the top the shaft being different, the bushing, oiling passages, shaft, etc are all the same as the 04-06 style.

So we established that the old style CPS and pre CPS distributor assemblies (except for the reluctance wheel) are the same and those earlier CPS and pre CPS distributor assemblies had no problems with long term wear of the bushing or gear.

The reason for the bushing wear/failures that result in the CPS spinning around or sudden stripping of the gears is because as the gear wears down it allows the camshaft to "push" the shaft around rather than spin it. This force makes uneven pressure on the bushings which results in their wear and catastrophic failure.

So the only problem we are faced with is the gear on the bottom. Well I did some looking around and Crown Automotive makes a replacement gear for around $15.00 P/N #83504635

I found several vendors that carry this part in stock.

Another option is to just go to your local junkyard and get the CPS assembly from a 1999-04 and steal the gear off it. I also checked on ebay and there was about 8 sellers with 99-04 CPS assemblies for $20-30.00

!!!!!IMPORTANT!!!!!
This is only a solution to those that have mild wear on their CPS gear and no wear to their camshaft gear. Also when you remove the gear it will allot the shaft to slide out the top of the CPS housing. Be sure to inspect it for any scaring, striations or uneven wear. If do notice any uneven wear then your CPS assembly can't be reused with the new gear.

So knowing that there is an option IF YOU CATCH IT EARLY, all of you with 04-06 4.0 owners need to pull your CPS and replace the gear. Don't trust the date code from Chrysler, if you have one of the new style CPS spend the $20 and save your self from a huge bill and allot of frustration.


FOG
mine had the laughing monkey syndrome as well as wear on the gear. have seen others have the same bushing seizure and resulting noise. are you sure the bushings are exactly the same? I was under the impression that as the bushing seizes the gear becomes harder to turn and that's when the wear starts to happen
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Unread 08-01-2010, 07:17 AM   #267
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Good info, Fog. This was a route I was thinking of pursuing.

I am wondering; are the cam shaft gears wearing or are they exhibiting metal from the CPS gear smeared onto them. Has anyone had a close look?
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Unread 08-01-2010, 07:29 AM   #268
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You're a good man Fog, I'm pulling mine this morning for a look.
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Unread 08-01-2010, 08:40 AM   #269
TheFog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadkill View Post
mine had the laughing monkey syndrome as well as wear on the gear. have seen others have the same bushing seizure and resulting noise. are you sure the bushings are exactly the same? I was under the impression that as the bushing seizes the gear becomes harder to turn and that's when the wear starts to happen
No the bushing wear is secondary to the gear wear. Anyone that has the "laughing money" syndrome/bushing failure already had well progressed gear wear.

What happens is the gear on the CPS assembly starts to wear because it was not properly hardened when it was manufactured. As a result it starts to wear quickly and as it does it opens up the gaps between its teeth which is where the camshaft gear meshes in.

Now you have the camshaft gear putting a lateral (sideways) load on the CPS shaft because of the higher clearance between their gears.

Once this type of wear starts it exponentially speeds up because as the more wear occurs the harder the gears are beating on each other which in turns makes more wear and so on.

Think of a rear axle with too little pinion depth. The pinion ends up acting like a hammer beating back and forth on the ring gear instead of staying constantly engaged with the ring gear. At the same time since the ring gear isn't fully engaging the pinion its trying to rip the tips of the teeth off the pinion.

We just don't see bearing failure much in the pinion of a real axle because its much more robust than the bushing system we see in the CPS assembly.

But the CPS assembly wasn't designed nor does it need a very robust bushing in it if its kept within the specified tolerances.

But as I said earlier I pulled both a 99-04 CPS assembly and my original 04-06 CPS assembly and compared them. I cannot see any difference in shaft support bushings, the shaft itself nor the 3 oil passages at bottom of the housing which allows oil to work its way on top of the bushing.

The 04-06 and pre-06 CPS assembly and pre-99 distributor cap assemblies operating under design conditions in a very low lateral load design. The "splasher" type oiling system they all use is more than sufficient to lubricate the shaft and bushing under such low lateral load conditions.

The lack of any visible wear or measurable play/runout or lack of smoothness in rotation of the shaft or bushing from my old CPS assembly would seem to support this assertion also.

On a side note I think that the huge (almost 50%) reduction of ZDDP in motor oils isn't helping with wear on surfaces like the metal on metal of the bushing/shaft in our CPS assemblies. There was a reason that ZDDP was put in oils, yes new motor technology doesn't need it, but then again the 4.0 isn't a new technology motor is it?

But all this is just my educated opinion, after all I'm just a medically retired police officer turned high school science teacher so I'm by no means an engineer nor do I claim to be one nor did I stay in Holiday Inn Express last night.



FOG
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In memory of Samantha Sue 1998 to Dec-16-10 at 2:15PM. She may have had 4 legs and a tail but she was the best friend I ever had and helped me through some really tough times. I hope to see her again one day.

Last edited by TheFog; 08-01-2010 at 09:08 AM..
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Unread 08-01-2010, 09:25 AM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFog View Post
No the bushing wear is secondary to the gear wear. Anyone that has the "laughing money" syndrome/bushing failure already had well progressed gear wear.

What happens is the gear on the CPS assembly starts to wear because it was not properly hardened when it was manufactured. As a result it starts to wear quickly and as it does it opens up the gaps between its teeth which is where the camshaft gear meshes in.

Now you have the camshaft gear putting a lateral (sideways) load on the CPS shaft because of the higher clearance between their gears.

Once this type of wear starts it exponentially speeds up because as the more wear occurs the harder the gears are beating on each other which in turns makes more wear and so on.

Think of a rear axle with too little pinion depth. The pinion ends up acting like a hammer beating back and forth on the ring gear instead of staying constantly engaged with the ring gear. At the same time since the ring gear isn't fully engaging the pinion its trying to rip the tips of the teeth off the pinion.

We just don't see bearing failure much in the pinion of a real axle because its much more robust than the bushing system we see in the CPS assembly.

But the CPS assembly wasn't designed nor does it need a very robust bushing in it if its kept within the specified tolerances.

But as I said earlier I pulled both a 99-04 CPS assembly and my original 04-06 CPS assembly and compared them. I cannot see any difference in shaft support bushings, the shaft itself nor the 3 oil passages at bottom of the housing which allows oil to work its way on top of the bushing.

The 04-06 and pre-06 CPS assembly and pre-99 distributor cap assemblies operating under design conditions in a very low lateral load design. The "splasher" type oiling system they all use is more than sufficient to lubricate the shaft and bushing under such low lateral load conditions.

The lack of any visible wear or measurable play/runout or lack of smoothness in rotation of the shaft or bushing from my old CPS assembly would seem to support this assertion also.

On a side note I think that the huge (almost 50%) reduction of ZDDP in motor oils isn't helping with wear on surfaces like the metal on metal of the bushing/shaft in our CPS assemblies. There was a reason that ZDDP was put in oils, yes new motor technology doesn't need it, but then again the 4.0 isn't a new technology motor is it?

But all this is just my educated opinion, after all I'm just a medically retired police officer turned high school science teacher so I'm by no means an engineer nor do I claim to be one nor did I stay in Holiday Inn Express last night.

FOG
Good overall assessment. ZDDP is also a problem for our flat tappet cams - the 4.0L was probably the last gasoline powered automobile engine being produced in 2006 without roller lifters. As you noted earlier, diesel oils have more ZDDP since many diesels still have flat-tapped cams with solid lifters. The cam-to-lifter interface is a high load/high stress area that can wear quickly without proper protection.

When I had my CPS out (9,300 miles on my '06 and it was showing wear already) I lubricated the gear with lubriplate when I reassembled it - maybe wasn't necessary, but made me feel better anyway. Now I'm wishing I would have pulled the CPS shaft and put a little lubriplate on the shaft bushing.
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