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Unread 01-23-2011, 01:47 PM   #1561
pwmac
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Stp

Quote:
Originally Posted by steitsma View Post
Can you just add STP Oil Treatment to your oil and get the same result as opposed to using the more expensive oil with the higher levels of zinc?
===
Depends on your oil choice. 10w30 will become thicker like the diesel oil because the main reason for the existance of STP is to modify the viscosity. Lots of reasons why you might want to stay away from thick oil. Like thick oil lubes the OPDA less thatn thin oil.
Then you have to consider that the ZDDP in STP includes 15oz of stuff. Reports say STP=1959z & 1814p. Do the math. Cheap oil has low Z & P and are not tested to the ACEA test standards which means the they may be very deficient in anti wear other than the low Z & P values from the reported stests.
Bottom line ACEA diesel oils are the best and they are mosty synthetic and cost more than cheap oil with ZDDPlus added.
Are you sure you want to go cheap ?
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Unread 01-23-2011, 02:14 PM   #1562
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Update on my modded OPDA

(For those who may have missed the modification I did to my OPDA, it starts on page 99 of this thread if interested)

I put about 300 miles on my modified OPDA this week and decided to check it out. I'm glad I did. When I pulled it, I noticed right off the shaft was starting to bind up. My first concern when doing this was oil leaking out the top but obviously I had no reason to be concerned about that, oil doesn't get anywhere near the top. As you can see from this photo, oil doesn't get above the lower bushing at all. I guess the oil grooves keep it from going any higher.

opda-043-text.jpg



Closer look of the top bushing area. It was already trying to seize up.

opda-042.jpg



The dark coloration cleaned off easily with a rag but you can see where the upper bushing marked the shaft.

opda-044.jpg



My hope was with the oil seal removed from the bottom of upper bushing, oil would work its way up the shaft and lubricate both bushings, making it self-lubricating and maintenance free. Now I'll have to figure out something else and since I removed the oil seal I can't even do the Fog mod in it's current state.

Just wanted to let you guys know what I found. Back to the drawing board for now.
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Unread 01-23-2011, 02:33 PM   #1563
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I am goin to call that company tom that sells it for an 04 and see if they have 1 for an 05. ill post up what they say.
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Unread 01-23-2011, 02:37 PM   #1564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lope View Post
(For those who may have missed the modification I did to my OPDA, it starts on page 99 of this thread if interested)

...

Just wanted to let you guys know what I found. Back to the drawing board for now.
Maybe the original distributor went in the opposite direction and the groove carried oil up?

Thinking it through, the oil has to defy gravity while a groove is pushing it down.

Could you install the old shaft without the groove?
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Unread 01-23-2011, 03:10 PM   #1565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
Maybe the original distributor went in the opposite direction and the groove carried oil up?
Could be, but I don't think the 4.0L has changed that much. Then again, I'm not 100% sure what engine the distributor came out of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
Could you install the old shaft without the groove?
Yes, but I'll still have to find a way to seal the top bushing to hold grease in. I'm watching the FB game right now, I think at halftime I'll go to the hardware store and look at O-rings and such.

I might have missed something, but the way I understand it, the original design of the distributor and the OPDA have factory grease, but HOW DID THE GREASE GET INSIDE THE UPPER BUSHING? You guys had to drill a hole in the bushing to get grease in there, correct?
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Unread 01-23-2011, 03:17 PM   #1566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lope View Post
Could be, but I don't think the 4.0L has changed that much. Then again, I'm not 100% sure what engine the distributor came out of!



Yes, but I'll still have to find a way to seal the top bushing to hold grease in. I'm watching the FB game right now, I think at halftime I'll go to the hardware store and look at O-rings and such.

I might have missed something, but the way I understand it, the original design of the distributor and the OPDA have factory grease, but HOW DID THE GREASE GET INSIDE THE UPPER BUSHING? You guys had to drill a hole in the bushing to get grease in there, correct?
You have to drill a hole. I think FOG reported finding one that had a passage, but after looking at the dissection I think that was a fluke.
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Unread 01-23-2011, 03:21 PM   #1567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
Could you install the old shaft without the groove?
Thought more about what you might have meant, if I put the old shaft back in without the groove, maybe oil would reach the top bushing and I wouldn't have to put in a seal/grease zerk. I might as well give that a try first, if nothing else, I can find out how much difference the oil groove makes.
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Unread 01-23-2011, 03:27 PM   #1568
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Interesting results lope, thank you for posting!
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Unread 01-23-2011, 03:43 PM   #1569
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Originally Posted by ChaseB View Post
Interesting results lope, thank you for posting!
You bet, just wish I would've had better results!

Willy, I believe you had an oil groove machined into your modified OPDA like the pre-'05.s had. I was thinking, what if I had an upward direction groove cut into my original (non grooved) OPDA shaft, all the way to the end. I wonder if it would carry oil far enough to reach the upper bushing.
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Unread 01-23-2011, 04:35 PM   #1570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lope View Post
Thought more about what you might have meant, if I put the old shaft back in without the groove, maybe oil would reach the top bushing and I wouldn't have to put in a seal/grease zerk. I might as well give that a try first, if nothing else, I can find out how much difference the oil groove makes.
If you do that, I would drive it for a few minutes or so to let everything get hot. Then pull the cap and check it for oil leaking. The seal was put there to prevent oil from getting out. If oil can reach the seal there will be nothing to stop it from coming all the way out.

Maybe let it idle and watch the OPDA with the cover off. Let it get warm and see what it does. I would think if it can get out of the lower bushing (without a groove) it can find a way up and out. You'll have to watch it close, but that is one cool experiment.

The other alternative may be to cut a groove at the top end of the upper bushing so that when oil gets up there the groove will force it back down.

Do you have a back up OPDA?
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Unread 01-23-2011, 04:40 PM   #1571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lope View Post
You bet, just wish I would've had better results!

Willy, I believe you had an oil groove machined into your modified OPDA like the pre-'05.s had. I was thinking, what if I had an upward direction groove cut into my original (non grooved) OPDA shaft, all the way to the end. I wonder if it would carry oil far enough to reach the upper bushing.
Then nothing would stop it from leaking out.

First, put in the old (non grooved) shaft and see if oil finds a way up.

If it gets up there without a groove forcing it down, then start thinking about cutting a groove at the middle of the upper bushing to force the oil back down.

Also you could cut off the top bushing that is sticking out. Then press in the remaining bushing to fill in the gap left from the old seal. Then put in a new seal at the top like the old distributor. Make up the difference in a longer plastic washer.
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Unread 01-23-2011, 05:43 PM   #1572
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If I understand correctly:
The 04 and earlier:
1. had the seal on the top of the bushing
2. had a groove that "wound" the oil down, yet the oil rose to the bushing
3. had a shaft/seal design that seems like millions of distributors from many manufacturers before
4. generally lived a long life

The 05/06:
1. Has the seal below the upper bushing
2. Has no shaft groove (Lope's mod did)
3. lives a "short" life

Lope - Did you get all the seal out?
Is it possible the groove, between the bush and housing, where the seal was, stopped the oil rise to the bushing? That is a change between to 04 and 05, based on Lope's mod. I would think to proximity of the shaft to the casing allowed some type of oil rise. Lope - look at the interior of the older housing for ID changes.
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Unread 01-23-2011, 07:00 PM   #1573
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Willy, I'm thinking the oil is not under any pressure, and the poly bushing under the sensor wheel would be enough to stop it from leaking out the top. As you can see by the indentation in the below pic, the poly bushing was seated pretty good against the upper shaft bushing. I think it should hold the oil in. If not, you bring up an interesting idea with cutting down the bushing.
opda-042.jpg


Willy, IIRC, your modded shaft is about the same as the pre-'05s and the oil groove ran to the bottom. Have you pulled the shaft from the housing since you modded it? If so, I would be interested to see if any oil made it above the lower bushing. I'd bet it's like mine, and didn't. I'll bet the pre-'05's didn't either and maybe that top seal is more to keep dust, etc. from getting in than keeping oil from getting out.

Jeff, I did get all the old seal out but oil wouldn't have gotten to it anyway. As you see in this pic, the oil didn't get above the lower bushing. You can see the oil line on the shaft and on the towel.
opda-043-text.jpg


The bushing ID's are the same and the shafts are the same diameter.
I think I'll tear into that old distributor some more, especially the upper bushing and the factory grease. I wish I had an '04 to dissect as well. I might see if I can find a cheap one on Ebay.

Willy, yes I do have a spare OPDA with only @1200 miles or so on it. I haven't modded it yet however. If I don't get this one fixed up pretty soon I'll do the fog mod on the other one.
opda-041.jpg  
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Unread 01-23-2011, 07:23 PM   #1574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lope View Post
Willy, I'm thinking the oil is not under any pressure, and the poly bushing under the sensor wheel would be enough to stop it from leaking out the top. As you can see by the indentation in the below pic, the poly bushing was seated pretty good against the upper shaft bushing. I think it should hold the oil in. If not, you bring up an interesting idea with cutting down the bushing.
If you have any up/down play between the gear and the thrust bearing, when the camshaft engages it will push the gear up and generate a gap between the plastic washer and the upper bushing. The oil isn't under pressure, but the drive gear will push the oil up. Start it with the old shaft and see what happens. I'm really curious if it will push out.

Quote:
Willy, IIRC, your modded shaft is about the same as the pre-'05s and the oil groove ran to the bottom. Have you pulled the shaft from the housing since you modded it? If so, I would be interested to see if any oil made it above the lower bushing. I'd bet it's like mine, and didn't. I'll bet the pre-'05's didn't either and maybe that top seal is more to keep dust, etc. from getting in than keeping oil from getting out.
I did pull it, but I wasn't checking for the oil reach. I put the groove in to supply a larger amount of oil for the bottom. I don't think it has any benefit based on the matching wear marks compared to the grooveless stock shaft.

Quote:
The bushing ID's are the same and the shafts are the same diameter.
I think I'll tear into that old distributor some more, especially the upper bushing and the factory grease. I wish I had an '04 to dissect as well. I might see if I can find a cheap one on Ebay.
The old 04 OPDA run $45 new from Morris 4x4. Someone just recently posted a link.

Quote:
Willy, yes I do have a spare OPDA with only @1200 miles or so on it. I haven't modded it yet however. If I don't get this one fixed up pretty soon I'll do the fog mod on the other one.
Thanks goodness you have a backup. You are supplying a lot of good information. Good job and good luck.
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Unread 01-23-2011, 07:29 PM   #1575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffjeep1 View Post
If I understand correctly:
The 04 and earlier:
1. had the seal on the top of the bushing TRUE
2. had a groove that "wound" the oil down TRUE, yet the oil rose to the bushing There is no evidence that oil reached the upper bushing. There is nothing stopping it. Lopes shaft has a return groove the length of the shaft.
3. had a shaft/seal design that seems like millions of distributors from many manufacturers before TRUE
4. generally lived a long life TRUE

The 05/06:
1. Has the seal below the upper bushing TRUE
2. Has no shaft groove (Lope's mod did) TRUE
3. lives a "short" life TRUE

Lope - Did you get all the seal out?
Is it possible the groove, between the bush and housing, where the seal was, stopped the oil rise to the bushing? That is a change between to 04 and 05, based on Lope's mod. I would think to proximity of the shaft to the casing allowed some type of oil rise. Lope - look at the interior of the older housing for ID changes.
Color emphasis mine.
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