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-   -   Chev Gen3 engine swap - info compilation (http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/chev-gen3-engine-swap-info-compilation-677831/)

Giviner 01-23-2009 02:39 PM

Chev Gen3 engine swap - info compilation
 
Ok, the purpose of this thread is to gather info from those who have done this swap or know about it. I am just wading into this overwhelming pool of information and am hoping to use this thread as a means to get suggestions, opinions, options, etc all compiled into one location. So for all you guys who have done a Gen3 V8 swap (I know who you are!!! I’ve probably read your build thread :D) post up and tell me what you think. I will keep updating this thread as ideas are input so we will hopefully end up with a great resource for all others (and me!) doing this swap.

Right off, I’m going to post a bunch of threads that involve swapping a Gen3 into TJ’s. These are some of the resources I have been using. JF threads are first, followed by the rest:

Curlee: LS2 in 97 TJ
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/ls2-my-97-wrangler-pics-540376/

TXjeepTJ: LS1 into a TJ
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f7/my-v8-swap-blog-updates-365293/

V-8unlimted: 5.3 into a 05 LJ
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/v-8-unlimited-build-562450/

TrippinBimmer: 5.3 into 00TJ (not much info)
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showt...ght=bumble+bee

Tikitgvr: 6.0 LQ4 into a 97 TJ
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/project-sloooowwww-build-615342/
also on Pirate….
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=721280

…..now the rest:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...&highlight=ls1
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=748335
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=752279
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=624927
http://www.hardrockcrawlers.org/foru...read.php?t=501
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...highlight=TOTW
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=499232
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=601675
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=608608
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=701884
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=666753
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conver...2-jeep-tj.html
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conver...-swappers.html
http://www.ls1truck.com/forums/lsx-t...-wrangler.html

There are a bunch of short threads on ls1tech if you go to advanced search and put jeep in the search window.

If anyone else has some good tech writeups or info post ‘em up and I’ll add them to this post.

Now onto MY swap info. :D

Engine:

I just purchased an LQ4 out a 2006 Silverado with about 60,000 km. It is coming with the full engine wiring harness, PCM, and accessories. Cost was $2500 in case anyone cares.

I know basically nothing about tinkering with these motors so this one will be remaining in its stock configuration (might swap a different oil pan onto it depending on how far the OEM one hangs down). Here is a link to the parts required if you do want to swap in a camaro/firebird oilpan. Still not sure if I will be doing this, but good info nonetheless:

http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/...&postcount=478

Transmission/T-Case:

Transmission is going to be an SM465 with a hydraulic clutch setup. This bellhousing will bolt directly to the Chev motor with no adaptation. I have lined up a 32 spline output SM465 and round 6 bolt adapter along with a hydraulic bellhousing. I also tracked down a 32 spline np241c that is on its way to me right now. The nice thing about this combo is I get a bulletproof transmission, strong(er) transfer case and I don't have to buy any adapters and swap any input or output shafts (yay). Once you factor in the cost of going with this setup vs the OEM setup with adapters, this is only marginally more cash and you have eliminated 2 potential weak points.

Harness/PCM:

I will be getting someone to flash the PCM and delete stuff I don’t need. This is where it gets fuzzy as I don’t really know what exactly I don’t need (not sure if that made sense). Right now, I know that I need to get the VATS removed, and also de-program everything to do with the auto tranny. I will also likely get the O2 sensors removed.

Anyone else know what I need to get removed?

Also, I know Howell, Speartech, Centechwire, Wait4meperformance, etc can all do what I need them to do……..i have no idea how I will decide, price will likely be the final factor. Post up any and all others you know of that do this and we can add it to the list.

Mounts/Adapters

Will be Advance or Novak………probably Advance since they come with a method to locate them without even needing the motor in there. Also, Advance has a decent looking conversion kit that comes with a conversion bellhousing/clutch/flywheel/pressure plate etc. and all of the hydraulic pieces to get the clutch working that seems decent enough.

If I went with Novak I would need a Chev bellhousing plus an adapter, the AA kit just uses an adapter bellhousing so it saves a step……and some $$.

Update: ended up going with Advance for the motor mounts, clutch kit, radiator, etc.

Cooling

If I go with the AA kit it comes with a rad, but if you guys know of any less expensive options post them up. I am aware Novak has some decent rads as well. Also, lets hear what you did for hoses as well.

Update: went with the AA rad with integrated tranny cooler. I am consdering routing the LQ4's oil cooler into it, if not I may use it as a power steering cooler.


Gauges

As much as I would like to keep the stock Jeep gauges, I don't like the idea of having to run both computers and adapting a bunch of my stock Jeep sending units to the Chev motor, so I will be going with a full aftermarket gauge setup, likely Autometer since they seem to be the only ones that make decent metric gauges. Probably just make an cluster plate with holes from some thin gauge steel and mount it in the stock location.

Fuel Delivery

From what I have read, the LQ4 needs between 50 and 60 PSI at the fuel rail. The stock TJ pump is regulated to 49 so it won’t do. I have heard of some people doing a full pump replacement, others just toss an inline pump between the stock one and the fuel rail which seems to work as well………..This motor has the returnless fuel system, same as my TJ but I will probably end up running a corvette filter/regulator mounted near the tank. This means I need to somehow modify my setup to have a return line going back into the tank...........still not sure how I will do this. Suggestions are welcome.



.....continued below

Giviner 01-23-2009 02:40 PM

Exhaust

I will see if the stock truck manifolds will fit, if so I will probably use them. I want to run true duals with a dump behind the skid plate. Not sure if I will run cats or not, and not sure which mufflers I will run but they will likely be bullet style like a cherry bomb or similar.

I’d like to make the exhaust myself but don’t have a bender or anything. Does anyone know of a DIY exhaust kit that I could use?

Update: with the clutch setup I plan to use, the stock manifolds will not work. I am looking into getting a set of Sanderson headers with a center dump instead of the stock manifolds which dump at the rear.

Linkages

I will probably swap t-case linkages to the Lokar one to get rid of the god-awful body mounted Z-gate shifter that comes stock on the TJ. It already binds and is a ***** to shift.

I know lots of people who use this shifter and love it………but in keeping with the theme of this thread……I am open to suggestions.

Update 3/30/09: I have the stock shifter for the 241, which is 100% body mounted, not half and half like the TJ one. I think I can make it work with some minor modification.

Update 5/12/09: I think I can make the stock TJ master and slave cylinders work also, I just have to reverse how the slave mounts due to the different style of clutch fork/lever used by the chevy clutch setup.

Air Conditioning

Alright, next to wiring, I this is probably the area I know the least about. I will have to get my refrigerant drained before taking it apart initially. I’m assuming I just need some custom lines made to fit my existing TJ system to the Chev’s compressor, then get the system re-charged. What I don’t get is the electrical……..i’ve heard several people mention they had difficulty getting the AC compressor to work but no details as to why that is.

Suggestions? Ideas?

I am also aware that I will need to notch my frame to make sure the compressor will fit once the motor is mounted.

Wiring

I’ve left the worst for last, and I know this is what most people fear most about this swap……..myself included. I hate electrical work and as a result, I know very little about it. I have searched a lot and have come across lots of wiring diagrams, all of which I don’t understand. Ultimately, my issue is I don’t know exactly how my TJ is wired. There are 2 fuse panels, lots of relays, etc but how they are all interconnected is my issue. If anyone has a “wiring for dummies” tutorial or a BASIC schematic of how the TJ systems are wired it would be of great help.

I obviously want to keep all my stuff like interior lights, turn signals, stereo, headlights, taillights, etc but right now I have no idea how they are wired into everything……..hence my issues.

Update: I am aware that I can simply unplug everything, seal off the connectors and have everything still work. Unfortunately that means that I have this big bulky harness still under my hood with 90% of the wires in it not being used. I want to pare down the harness so that it only has what I need in it for a cleaner look..........however, my wiring skills still suck badly, so if anyone has any ideas or links to someone who has done something similar, it would be much appreciated.

Throttle Pedal

From what I have read, this motor is DBW. I will probably try and source a pedal from the donor truck and just replace mine. From what I’ve been told it’s just plug and play and is very simple to set up.

Update 3/30/09: I got the pedal and TCM from the donor truck so I will attempt to make them work. Seems like the only tricky part here will be mating the chev pedal bracket to the TJ tub.
------------------------------------------------------

I think that covers all of the major aspects of the swap. So, by all means, post ideas, pics, opinions, alternative suggestions, etc. You have my undivided attention. :D

Here is my build thread as well:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/another-chev-v8-swap-691619/

lumpster 01-23-2009 02:59 PM

I would like to say that YOU SHOULD NOT LET PRICE INFLUENCE YOU ON THE COMPUTER AND HARNESS!!!

i sent my computer and harness to a cheaper company www.lt1350.com they killed my harness and computer.

I had to go buy a whole new harness from speartech. < my favorite part of my 5.3 swap now btw. It was made how i wanted it, with only the stuff i wanted on it and where i wanted it.

I decided to save money on the computer again, mistake. i sent it to wait4me performance, it runs but not good, i get 14 mpg,

I wish i would have spent the money and had speartech do the computer too.

It will save a lot of time if you know the harness and computer are right from the start. John at speartech installs and tests every harness and computer he does on one of his test mule cars. so you know that when you get it, its right.

i love my 5.3, i hate my 4l60e. i will be swapping to a nv4500 one of these days. sooner if the 4l60e craps out on me.

lumpster 01-23-2009 03:01 PM

keep the dbw, you can use cruise that way. the speartech harness makes wiring the motor an hour or so ordeal. The jeep wiring is fun, get a factory service manual for it.


I hope your talking about the Novak transfercase shifter linkage. that is one your gonna want to use. i made mine like theres. and it works great.

Tucos 01-23-2009 04:12 PM

Very nice compilation. I have been looking into a chevy or hemi swap. Good timing.

GOLENJEEPTJ 01-23-2009 04:25 PM

Might want to shoot a PM to wroose he has a beautiful LS1 install!

V-8unlimited 01-24-2009 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giviner (Post 6418199)
Exhaust

I will see if the stock truck manifolds will fit, if so I will probably use them. I want to run true duals with a dump behind the skid plate. Not sure if I will run cats or not, and not sure which mufflers I will run but they will likely be bullet style like a cherry bomb or similar.

I’d like to make the exhaust myself but don’t have a bender or anything. Does anyone know of a DIY exhaust kit that I could use?

Linkages


I will probably swap t-case linkages to the Lokar one to get rid of the god-awful body mounted Z-gate shifter that comes stock on the TJ. It already binds and is a ***** to shift.

I know lots of people who use this shifter and love it………but in keeping with the theme of this thread……I am open to suggestions.

Air Conditioning

Alright, next to wiring, I this is probably the area I know the least about. I will have to get my refrigerant drained before taking it apart initially. I’m assuming I just need some custom lines made to fit my existing TJ system to the Chev’s compressor, then get the system re-charged. What I don’t get is the electrical……..i’ve heard several people mention they had difficulty getting the AC compressor to work but no details as to why that is.

Suggestions? Ideas?

I am also aware that I will need to notch my frame to make sure the compressor will fit once the motor is mounted.

Wiring

I’ve left the worst for last, and I know this is what most people fear most about this swap……..myself included. I hate electrical work and as a result, I know very little about it. I have searched a lot and have come across lots of wiring diagrams, all of which I don’t understand. Ultimately, my issue is I don’t know exactly how my TJ is wired. There are 2 fuse panels, lots of relays, etc but how they are all interconnected is my issue. If anyone has a “wiring for dummies” tutorial or a BASIC schematic of how the TJ systems are wired it would be of great help.

I obviously want to keep all my stuff like interior lights, turn signals, stereo, headlights, taillights, etc but right now I have no idea how they are wired into everything……..hence my issues.

Throttle Pedal

From what I have read, this motor is DBW. I will probably try and source a pedal from the donor truck and just replace mine. From what I’ve been told it’s just plug and play and is very simple to set up.
------------------------------------------------------

I think that covers all of the major aspects of the swap. So, by all means, post ideas, pics, opinions, alternative suggestions, etc. You have my undivided attention. :D



#1: truck manifold will NOT work, they will cause the exhaust to hit the frame
#2 true duals will be tuff, because of clearance for the front driveshaft
#3 use the novak transfer shifter
#4 you will simply need a toggle switch labled "AC" to kick on the compressor, and build new lines. I used a place in Florida that I found on this site
#5 you will need to notch the frame, and re-inforce it also
#6 you NEED to simply buy a "plug and play" aftermarket harness. Use the same company for the ECU. I used Howell, and would do so again, but there are others out there.
#6 you do not need to know anything about the jeep wiring. You can unplug the jeep harness, and lights will still work fine. Or, you can keep the jeep ECU and underhood wiring and piggyback to get some gauges to work.
#7 I chose to keep cable TB, but DBW is also an option, either way it won't matter much. I simply kept the jeep stock throttle cable, and welded the "tit" from the jeep TB to the GM throttlebody so it plugged right up.

Tikitgvr 01-27-2009 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giviner (Post 6418194)

Harness/PCM:

I will be getting someone to flash the PCM and delete stuff I don’t need. This is where it gets fuzzy as I don’t really know what exactly I don’t need (not sure if that made sense). Right now, I know that I need to get the VATS removed, and also de-program everything to do with the auto tranny. I will also likely get the O2 sensors removed.

Anyone else know what I need to get removed?

Also, I know Howell, Speartech, Centechwire, Wait4meperformance, etc can all do what I need them to do……..i have no idea how I will decide, price will likely be the final factor. Post up any and all others you know of that do this and we can add it to the list.

You need to get the VATS removed also. I would reccomend getting the VVT removed as well, I have this motor in my 2008 GMC and I cant stand that stupid *** VVT. Everything else you have already mentioned.

Mounts/Adapters

Will be Advance or Novak………probably Advance since they come with a method to locate them without even needing the motor in there. Also, Advance has a decent looking conversion kit that comes with a conversion bellhousing/clutch/flywheel/pressure plate/motor mounts/radiator/ and all of the hydraulic pieces to get the clutch working that seems decent enough.

If I went with Novak I would need a Chev bellhousing plus an adapter, the AA kit just uses an adapter bellhousing so it saves a step……and some $$.

Go with AA. They have done a ton of these swaps and are extremely knowledgeable. They also offer some tricks in there instructions for the swap.

Cooling

If I go with the AA kit it comes with a rad, but if you guys know of any less expensive options post them up. I am aware Novak has some decent rads as well. Also, lets hear what you did for hoses as well.

I would not skimp on this. By far one of the most important part of the build. I chose AA again because they have been there done that...


Gauges

I am trying diligently to figure out if there is a way to get ALL of the stock TJ gauges to work, including the Tach but thus far no luck. From what I know, you can get them all to work except the tachometer. I probably don’t really NEED a tach but having a dead gauge in there will bother me, and I don’t want to have a goofy looking external tach, so I will probably go with a full gauge replacement if I can’t figure this out. Anyone have any luck with this?

Also interested in seeing any custom gauge clusters any of you may have made or seen.

Yes you can keep ALL factory gauges. You will have to keep the jeep computer and the part of the harness for the tcase, oil sending unit (use the jeeps, just move it to the 6.0), and water temp sending unit (cut the upper radiator hose in half, add a bunged sleeve and mount the sending unit there). For the tach, its a 4 wire tach. Red line gauges in Cali will rewire your tach and run wires out the back for the 6.0 harness. They quoted me $180 plus the shipping. Again, this is info that came from AA because, been there, done that....

Fuel Delivery

From what I have read, the LQ4 needs between 50 and 60 PSI at the fuel rail. The stock TJ pump is regulated to 49 so it won’t do. I have heard of some people doing a full pump replacement, others just toss an inline pump between the stock one and the fuel rail which seems to work as well………..I’m not sure if this particular motor has its own regulator at the fuel rail with a return line, or if it is just a single line system with an in-tank regulator like the TJ.

Thoughts? What are the pro’s/cons to using a new pump vs a supplementary pump? If I can avoid ripping into the tank I would like to do that.

That motor does not have a return line on it, they went away in late 04. As for the TJ pump, it can be used and was done so on pirate, I will have to find the thread.

Exhaust

I will see if the stock truck manifolds will fit, if so I will probably use them. I want to run true duals with a dump behind the skid plate. Not sure if I will run cats or not, and not sure which mufflers I will run but they will likely be bullet style like a cherry bomb or similar.

I’d like to make the exhaust myself but don’t have a bender or anything. Does anyone know of a DIY exhaust kit that I could use?

I am using the truck exhaust. I had to remove the drivers side because of firewall interference, which you will have to "massage" to get the motor in (I cut mine up with a sawzall and will go back and rework to look factory), but after it is set, I can put it back on with no interference.

Linkages

I will probably swap t-case linkages to the Lokar one to get rid of the god-awful body mounted Z-gate shifter that comes stock on the TJ. It already binds and is a ***** to shift.

I know lots of people who use this shifter and love it………but in keeping with the theme of this thread……I am open to suggestions.
Cant help ya here, I got the 4L80E with mine when I bought it...or stoled for the price I paid :)

Air Conditioning

Alright, next to wiring, I this is probably the area I know the least about. I will have to get my refrigerant drained before taking it apart initially. I’m assuming I just need some custom lines made to fit my existing TJ system to the Chev’s compressor, then get the system re-charged. What I don’t get is the electrical……..i’ve heard several people mention they had difficulty getting the AC compressor to work but no details as to why that is.

Suggestions? Ideas?

I am also aware that I will need to notch my frame to make sure the compressor will fit once the motor is mounted.

I have not gotten to this point yet, but yes you will have to get custom hoses made. You will also have to notch the hell out of the frame and reweld some reinforcement to it when you are done...

Wiring

I’ve left the worst for last, and I know this is what most people fear most about this swap……..myself included. I hate electrical work and as a result, I know very little about it. I have searched a lot and have come across lots of wiring diagrams, all of which I don’t understand. Ultimately, my issue is I don’t know exactly how my TJ is wired. There are 2 fuse panels, lots of relays, etc but how they are all interconnected is my issue. If anyone has a “wiring for dummies” tutorial or a BASIC schematic of how the TJ systems are wired it would be of great help.

I obviously want to keep all my stuff like interior lights, turn signals, stereo, headlights, taillights, etc but right now I have no idea how they are wired into everything……..hence my issues.

I have not decided who I am going to use yet, but there are a ton of reccomendations on pirate...

Throttle Pedal

From what I have read, this motor is DBW. I will probably try and source a pedal from the donor truck and just replace mine. From what I’ve been told it’s just plug and play and is very simple to set up.
Yes, it is very simple to do. I actually am sitting here waiting on UPS to deliver mine that I oredered from a guy on ebay. I got the pedal, harness, and puter for $40 shipped..All the others have been in the $100 range for just pedal or puter and harness. Trailblazer pedals work real well because of size. Any year with DBW will work..
------------------------------------------------------

I think that covers all of the major aspects of the swap. So, by all means, post ideas, pics, opinions, alternative suggestions, etc. You have my undivided attention. :D

With all that said, you need to get 2 things, the wiring schematic for the motor you are installing, and for the TJ. Also, if you are in a state that requires smog, you might want to check into it...

Unlimited04 01-27-2009 06:23 PM

check this thread out on beefy up a NP231 from the junkyard: http://www.pgh-offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6070

If you want to keep the NP231, I think you could beef it up with planetaries and HD parts found between ZJ's and Chevy's, with a SYE, it should be fairly sturdy. The case isn't quite the strongest, but it should hold the v8 just fine. The NV3550 is pretty heavy duty and came in Dodge V8 applications.

Good luck with the build.

Giviner 01-28-2009 10:45 AM

Awesome stuff guys, all the help is appreciated.

As usual, the more I read the more I end up changing my plans. After doing some more reading and speaking with a few more people, I believe I am going to ditch my stock tranny in favor of an SM465 4speed manual. I found a decent deal on one and from what I have been told these things are bullet proof. I am also on the lookout for an NP241 with a drivers side drop and 32 spline input that will mate right up to the SM465 with the stock round adapter. This combo will require zero aftermarket adapters and will be much stronger than the original plan. It will probably end up costing less also since the adapters from AA for my original setup were around $550.

Sooooo, the hunt continues. The good news is the guy from the wreckers called and my motor is pulled and ready to be shipped. Should have it in a week or so.

slafferty 02-15-2009 03:09 PM

check out justchevytrucks.com for your tc.

Giviner 02-25-2009 11:54 AM

Thx slafferty, but I think I have a line on one. Should be here in a day or so. Out of a '94 chev 2500 with a 4L80 tranny. The SYE kit will end up costing more than the t-case did.

danielgoforth 02-25-2009 12:23 PM

You don't need to pull a VSS. Mine was built into the tranny/tcase adapter. Personally I found that the Novak site offered a lot of good info.

http://www.novak-adapt.com/

downtowncb 03-27-2009 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumpster (Post 6418368)
keep the dbw, you can use cruise that way. the speartech harness makes wiring the motor an hour or so ordeal. The jeep wiring is fun, get a factory service manual for it.


I hope your talking about the Novak transfercase shifter linkage. that is one your gonna want to use. i made mine like theres. and it works great.

How do you retain cruise control with a DBW? I just purchased a 5.3 out of an '03 Silverado with DBW and cruise control is the only part I'm not sure how I'm going to retain.

BTW this is going in my '98 ZJ. Also, thanks for compiling this all in one place.

Kraut 03-27-2009 07:46 AM

Glad I found your post! You have all the questions that I had and still have a few. I decided to just jump in and buy NOVAC to include the radiator, electric fan, Slip yoke eliminator, transfer case adaptor, motor mounts, transmission mount, trans case shifter and headers. With all that they threw in a t-shirt and cap!

Anyway, look at this site to see all of my pics so far. 2001 TJ with 2005 5.3/4L60E w/DBW. I've tried to document everything I've done. I really hope this helps someone out because I've had a blast doing this but with limited advise. http://www.getconnect.biz/2001_Jeep_TJ.html I'm getting ready to send off the harness and PCM to get them modified. I was going to try to wire myself, but even after all the swaps that people have done with the 5.3, there are no ACTUAL directions, charts, drawings or video of which wire needs to stay or which needs to go. Lots of "you can do it yourself", or "it's easy". Well, I'm in the same boat you are and I can't get my head around the wiring, so it's going to get shipped off. My goal is to have this thing back on the road by the end of April '09. I started the tear down at the end of February '09.


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