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Unread 02-10-2010, 12:05 PM   #91
Robert J. yates
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Originally Posted by billymac4511 View Post
If they were intending on showing their rig or basically wanting/needing the extra "Bling" under the hood, then an all aluminum with billet cap and diamond-studded mounting bolts are definitely the way to go!
See...thats the issue I'm having with your comments. You sound as if you are informed and then you post up a bunch of drivel that somehow, aluminum radiators are only for show. That is hardly the case so I'll put it to you another way. Tell me...why are most desert trucks, sand cars and rock buggies fitted with aluminum coolers? I surely don't think competition at that level has anything to do with bling or diamond studded mounting bolts

You live in Maine so your needs are probably different than mine due to the fact that I live and wheel primarily in the desert where seeing 100* plus temepratures is a very common occurance. I'll let you in on another secret too... my radiator is not the only cooler on my truck.... there are 3 more aftermarket coolers that I have added to my rig. Care to guess what they are?

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Unread 02-10-2010, 12:09 PM   #92
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Care to guess what they are?
transmission, oil, and power steering?
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Unread 02-10-2010, 12:16 PM   #93
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there are 3 more aftermarket coolers that I have added to my rig. Care to guess what they are?
Oil, Transmission, Ice Chest
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Unread 02-10-2010, 02:48 PM   #94
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transmission, oil, and power steering?

Bingo...but I really like the ice chest comment above. Classic
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Unread 02-10-2010, 06:28 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert J. yates View Post
See...thats the issue I'm having with your comments. You sound as if you are informed and then you post up a bunch of drivel that somehow, aluminum radiators are only for show. That is hardly the case so I'll put it to you another way. Tell me...why are most desert trucks, sand cars and rock buggies fitted with aluminum coolers? I surely don't think competition at that level has anything to do with bling or diamond studded mounting bolts

You live in Maine so your needs are probably different than mine due to the fact that I live and wheel primarily in the desert where seeing 100* plus temepratures is a very common occurance. I'll let you in on another secret too... my radiator is not the only cooler on my truck.... there are 3 more aftermarket coolers that I have added to my rig. Care to guess what they are?
thats what im sayin
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Unread 02-10-2010, 06:50 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert J. yates View Post
See...thats the issue I'm having with your comments. You sound as if you are informed and then you post up a bunch of drivel that somehow, aluminum radiators are only for show.
Thanks for calling my comments drivel I'll be sure to give your statements the same consideration! Probably is uninformed, excepting the years I worked at a rad shop with a group of fellas that have over 100 years collective experience that I am drawing from. But hey, maybe it is drivel, I do tend to ramble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert J. yates View Post
That is hardly the case so I'll put it to you another way. Tell me...why are most desert trucks, sand cars and rock buggies fitted with aluminum coolers? I surely don't think competition at that level has anything to do with bling or diamond studded mounting bolts
Hm... Did you say desert trucks, sand cars and rock buggies?
So... I guess I wasn't clear on what I meant. I mentioned in a previous post that "Unless you're doing circle-track or want extra bling for your mall-cralwer..." I shouldn't leave anything to chance or assumption that folks will take something intelligent away and instead will pick it apart.

How I suppose it SHOULD be worded so that it can't be nit-picked IS... "Unless you have a specialty application that would require an extreme cooling situation, such as hardcore rock crawling, racing or extreme desert conditions..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert J. yates View Post
You live in Maine so your needs are probably different than mine due to the fact that I live and wheel primarily in the desert where seeing 100* plus temepratures is a very common occurance. I'll let you in on another secret too... my radiator is not the only cooler on my truck.... there are 3 more aftermarket coolers that I have added to my rig. Care to guess what they are?
I'm glad to hear you put aftermarket cooling solutions in your vehicle. Those would be some clues that you're not running a mostly-stock rig in a weekend warrior style wheeling experience (what I was talking about and aiming my comments toward) and most likely wouldn't need a part that would have a greater resistance to getting poked by a tree branch or scraped underneath by a stump (most likely you've got a radiator skid which most weekend wheelers don't have or need.)
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Unread 02-11-2010, 12:31 AM   #97
TJdualsport
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If you could get a aluminum rad for close to the same price why not over kill it??? 200.00 for a fully tigged 3 row alum sounds good to me. i dont care about the bling i just want my jeep to stop running hot in the dunes,desert, and highway. everytime i get into the RPMs my temps shoot up. maintaining 40mph in a sand wash gets my jeep warm. billymac what do you think about adding a zinc probe. I have a friend with a built dakota and he had a ton of leaks in his radiator and are thinking electroysis was the cause.
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Unread 02-11-2010, 10:13 AM   #98
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Billy, you are pimping a radiator concept (CBR), as well as a specific product, the 1682CBR, which sells for ~$220.
This thread was started about a ~$200 100% aluminum radiator which has advertised better construction than the more expensive big-name unites.

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My comments suggesting an upgrade to a copper/brass radiator instead of an "ALL aluminum" (keep in mind, all alum and PAL are two COMPLETELY different beasts) and the radiator this thread is about is not a PAL, they advertise 100% aluminum were based upon the person's interest in an all aluminum upgrade. If they were intending on showing their rig or basically wanting/needing the extra "Bling" under the hood, then an all aluminum with billet cap and diamond-studded mounting bolts are definitely the way to go![/B]that is sounding rather cynical. the champion is in the same price category as your beloved CBR. so now it sounds like you are trying to say ALL aluminum (non PAL) radiators are twice the price of the CBR. OR this one has inferior performance to the CBR

But, for half the priceof a griffin or novak radiator, a do-it-yourself'er could upgrade the durability of their stock rad by replacing it with a repairable CBR part. The stock PAL rads are not something that should be repaired and expected to offer continued reliable service.
If radiator puncture is a worry on the trail, maybe you should purchase one of these, it's removable:
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Unread 02-11-2010, 11:34 AM   #99
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What is PAL, CSF, and CBR? I assume its a type of radiator?
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Unread 02-11-2010, 11:48 AM   #100
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Very good points Dippert! I wasn't trying to sound cynical, but now that I've re-read it a few times, you are absolutely right! I did come across cynical!

I wasn't trying to "sell" the performance radiator part, I was using it as an example, just because I had first-hand knowledge of the part. I handled them every day, sometimes 50-100 of them a day.

I will be the first to admit too, the copper/brass radiators are probably 10-15 lb heavier than the all aluminum, so if front-end weight or just weight in general is a concern, the all aluminum radiator also may be a consideration.

I was speaking from my experiences about the all aluminum rads being upwards of 3-400 bucks. If folks have found some from a reputable company that offers a decent warranty for 200 bucks (which it looks like they have!) then I'd say go for it!

The all alums that I was referring to were made by CSF. I also am going on knowledge of general prices. I have NOT priced out the exact part for a TJ, so there are assumptions there that if an all alum for application A is 200 bucks more than CBR and 300 more than PAL (on average) then I simply assumed it would compare with Jeeps as well. As we all know, sometimes the 'average' doesn't apply!

Aluminum DOES provide marginally better heat transmission than copper (but only marginally). I myself have not looked at the exact data, but have been told this by engineers that have, so... I guess as far as that tidbit is concerned, I'm only speaking with hear-say knowledge.

Those radiator screens are absolutely a great idea! I was just adding that one of the benefits of a CBR rad was that it is easily repairable by most do-it-yourselfers... most guys I know either don't know how to TIG or if they do, they don't have the equipment readily available to do it. Further, I don't know first-hand of anyone that carries a TIG with them on the trail. A pocket-torch and a spool of pipe-solder takes up very little space in a toolbox. Thassall I was sayin there

And for the gent that posted right after you, seargentspud:

PAL= Plastic-Aluminum. Plastic tanks and an aluminum core. Not repairable (except for some situations where JBWeld will fix a crack in a tank temporarily). Tubes typically helled to header plate with epoxy.

CBR = Copper/Brass. Full copper core (tubes and fins) and brass tanks, helled together with solder. No epoxy.

CSF = Constant Source of Frustration, Cant Seem to Fit, there are others. Often the CSF PAL radiators wouldn't have the mounting pins or bracket bolt holes in the right spot or would have occasional leak issues. Otherwise, CSF is a brand of radiator, just like Nissen, Bher, Griffin (who also does fuel tanks) and others.

Ultimately, my argument/counter-point was that in MY experiences, QUALITY all aluminum radiators are SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive than their CBR/PAL counterparts and was suggesting a potentially unknown alternative that the OP or others may not have considered. Just trying to get the info out there that there's other options in case someone else wasn't aware.

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Unread 02-11-2010, 01:40 PM   #101
Robert J. yates
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Thanks for calling my comments drivel
Quote:
Originally Posted by billymac4511 View Post
The If they were intending on showing their rig or basically wanting/needing the extra "Bling" under the hood, then an all aluminum with billet cap and diamond-studded mounting bolts are definitely the way to go!
I just call it like I see it.
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Unread 02-12-2010, 12:29 AM   #102
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So did anyone actually buy the Champion Cooling Systems radiator? How'd it work out?

RADIATOR 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 WRANGLER : eBay Motors (item 190371254186 end time Feb-16-10 13:35:57 PST)

I'm in the same situation with that crappy oem pal radiator spewing rad juice all over my truck from a gaping crack in the craptacular plastic top.

Trying to decide between the cbr from performance or the aluminum Champion. For basically the same price, around $220. The alu looks like a steal for the price, compared to all of the ones at Quadratec for $5-600, seems to be the same quality and features. The guy has excellent feedback, but... how can it be the same for 1/2 the price. Looking to see if there's a catch?

Anyone have real experience with this beast?

I need to decide ASAP so I can get back on, errr, I mean, "off" the road.
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Unread 02-12-2010, 06:40 AM   #103
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I'm interested to hear how things worked out too!

Usually, when something looks 2G2BT, it usually is. Then again (and I imagine I'm probably going to get flames for this, but...) Smittybilt has put out quite a few aftermarket Jeep parts that are 1/2-ish the price of the USA made name-brands (winches, bumpers, armor, ect.) and most of their stuff is decent. While it's not top of the line by any means, for us weekend warrior types it's perfect.

I'm still wary of major components that my vehicle requires to run... I've got smittybilt stuff on my rig... but I just put a new battery in and I got a diehard platinum after about 3 weeks of research and 190 bucks. Why? If my battery pops when I'm out in the middle of nowhere... I'm getting towed home or I'm walking: I don't carry a spare battery.

If my bumper falls off or my winch quits, there's contingencies; pick it up and toss it in the back or get out the shovel and axe and start digging. (Gotta love the Maine woods! So many great tools growing all over the place! lol)
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Unread 02-12-2010, 06:46 AM   #104
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Just had a look at the part and I wanted to add something for the folks that might not be in the know...

If you've got a manual transmission, you still use the same radiator. Just put some plugs in the TOC (Transmission Oil Cooler) lines. That will keep gunk out of the cooler and help keep it from rotting out. You can really put anything in there but probably RTV or high temp silicone would work just fine. Sometimes they come with caps on them from the factory. Just pull the caps off, smear some sealant on the nipple end and put the caps back on to seal it up good.

If you're feeling really brave, you can leave it open, it won't hurt anything short term, but know that water and crud CAN and will get in there and could rot out the TOC inside after a year or two. I have known mechanics to leave them unplugged and nothing bad happens... I just personally think it's more "clean" of a job to plug the lines up.
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Unread 02-12-2010, 09:03 AM   #105
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Usually, when something looks 2G2BT, it usually is.
Oh god, is that a...thing, now?
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