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Champion 3 row aluminum radiator (review)

129K views 276 replies 51 participants last post by  Jeeper5 
#1 ·
So after 150k miles my stock radiator started leaking and started the search for a new radiator. Now as a background I did have some problems over heating, but only with the worst of the worst situation like doing 3k rpm at 75mph in 105 degree heat with the A/C on. So I figure in order to counter that I'd like an upgraded radiator instead of the stock OEM replacement.

I've looked around on here for hours and have seen someone bought a Silla 2 row aluminum radiator and I liked it but the thing that sold me on the Champion one is that the fill neck is billet welded and not stamped in. Also I saw that it was mentioned on here that 3 row is bad... but I took the chance anyways.

After putting it in and replacing coolant, hoses, and thermostat (stock temp 195) I drove it around for a few hours down the freeway and all around town and the temp stuck around 10degrees cooler according to the stock temp gauge with mechanical fan. So far it seems to be working good.

Along with the radiator, I also got an electric fan and hooked that up yesterday it turns on at 200 and off at 180 and seems to work awesome hoping for better highway milage but I'll find out soon.

(last time I posted pics they were blocked to lower members I apologize for all the links)

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m111/sergeantspud/Radiator/DSCN0507.jpg
The welds are actually pretty nice looking.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m111/sergeantspud/Radiator/DSCN0509.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m111/sergeantspud/Radiator/DSCN0515.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m111/sergeantspud/Radiator/DSCN0506.jpg
Picture of the mounts that I made, they fit quite well.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m111/sergeantspud/Radiator/DSCN0514.jpg
The mounted fan

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m111/sergeantspud/Radiator/DSCN0518.jpg
Another of the mounted fan

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m111/sergeantspud/Radiator/DSCN0519.jpg
The switch that is a "manual off" I will be adding a "manual on" and a LED light to show when the fan is on or off.

And heres a link to an album with the rest of the pictures
Radiator pictures by sergeantspud - Photobucket

Sooo questions comments? :D
 
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#160 ·
I just replaced my OEM radiator this last weekend. Picked one up from Checker/Oreily. On their website for the stock manual tranny radiator it said all metal brass/copper construction, 2 row.
When I picked it up it had plastic tanks and an all aluminum core with a data sheet inside the box saying they had changed their manufacturing to aluminum and it was at least as good or better than the previous version.
I was cranky at first but it looked pretty good quality and the core was aluminum, so I kept it for $155. Also the shroud mounting holes were too small and had to be tapped but other than that it was an exact fit.
With a new 195 t-stat and mechanical fan it stays at the exact same place (210 on the guage) as it did before....which brings me to an interesting question, if t-stat is a 195 and the cooling system is functioning like it should why does it stay at 210 on the guage?
 
#162 ·
Original poster here, my 3 row champion started leaking back in may and I just got the chance to swap it out. I live about an hour away from the champion warehouse so I drove down there, they looked at it, no questions asked handed me a brand new one. No receipt nothing. Tell me that autozone will do that without a senate approval. Champion customer service is top notch however the products are... less than top notch. When I swapped it out I exchanged for a 2 row instead of 3 row and it seems to be doing the same job with less to go wrong. No leaks so far with same performance.

Also I live in this high desert heat also, I have my stock engine fan out and replaced with an electric fan and to top that without a shroud. Even in this 90-100* weather, A/C on and while sitting in traffic, I have no problems overheating.
 
#168 ·
If you wind up with a few spare minutes on your hands, give Jeff at Champion a call and query him as to whether or not he thinks his 3 row TJ radiator cools better than his 2 row TJ radiator. He was actually honest about it.
 
#170 ·
Well, it won't matter much if it's one, two or three cores if it breaks and sticks you out on a trail. If it's plastic/aluminum it's gonna fail, just a matter of when.

If you want something dependable go copper/brass. Even if it gets punctured or breaks you can repair it on the trail. The plastic/aluminum one that Mopar (or anyone else) sells is crap.
 
#177 ·
And I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to slam Champion nor berate the good Sarge on his choice, nor push any one product over another. All I can vouch for is what has worked for me so far. But to me replacing a component that has reached the end of it's service life with another like it makes sense, especially if it has given good service up to that point. Now a part that fails, well that's another story that would make me want to find something that does work.
 
#183 ·
I've told you the problems we've had and solved with the OEM 1 row, so you're preaching to the choir here.

Like you, we've gone back to the OEM 1 row after playing the very misinformed 3 row copper and brass game and will never switch back.
 
#178 ·
My 3 row Champion appears to be cooling even better than the factory radiator. Hard to tell, since I don't live down in the low desert anymore.

I believe the 3 row Champion has a thicker core and holds more coolant than the original. That may have something to do with it. Also, I have the HD clutch and 7 blade fan.

Since Champion now offers a 2 row radiator for TJs, that seems like the logical choice for anyone buying a new one.
 
#189 ·
"Now that's one of the most uneducated posts I've seen to date..."
I guess that's why they call ya knucklehead eh?

It was based on actual experience. My plastic aluminum Mopar radiator cracked and failed at 60k miles. It could not be repaired. I did a great deal of research and found many people had the same problem. In most every way C/Br outperformed P/Al, or straight aluminum.

So if I'm so wrong, educate me then how plastic/aluminum is better than copper/brass?
 
#194 ·
physics says heat transfer is NOT a linear formula. the larger the temp difference, the more heat will be transferred in a given amount of time. For the more visual people:

The vertical axis is heat transfer, the horizontal axis is time.
As the temp difference between the 2 surfaces (coolant/radiator/air) gets smaller, it will take exponentially more time to release the heat.

To increase cooling you have a few options: increase coolant flow, increase air flow, increase area of the cooling surface (notice i didn't mention lower temp Tstats, more on that below). The greatest effect will be seen when addressing the most restrictive piece of the puzzle, which may vary from person to person.

A water pump can't flow too much fluid. The longer the fluid sits in the radiator, the less efficient the cooling system becomes (look at the graph). Furthermore, when the coolant is chillin' in the radiator, it 'backs up' the engine side of the system. That coolant is sitting there absorbing it's maximum amount of heat, all the excess is left in the metal. You want a pump that flows as much as possible. but eventually you'll get diminishing returns, b/c there is a choke point elsewhere in the cooling system that is preventing maximum efficiency. (This isn't Jeep specific, stock pumps are fine for the 4.0L engines).

For the same reasons, faster airflow has basically the same effect. Since airflow is the ultimate fluid responsible for engine cooling, improving CFM is more commonly looked at than GPM. You can go buy your 1 million GPM water pump but when airflow is the limiting factor, you're wasting your money. I'm not going even try and talk about fans. I'm a numbers kind of person, and since nobody has any numbers on the CFM of the stock fan(s), it's all partially subjective.

Have you ever noticed that it's faster to boil a gallon of water when you put it in two 1/2 gallon pots. Or that an ice cube melts faster when it's in pieces? It's all about the surface area to volume ratio. The more coolant/air you have in contact with each other, the faster it will cool off. The coolant in contact with the tube wall will cool the fastest, and the coolant in the middle of the tube will cool the slowest. So a thin tube is more efficient than a thick tube. The highest flowing pump and fan can always benefit from more surface area. But again, the law of diminishing returns applies.

Saying a 1/2/3 core radiator is better/worse than a 1/2/3 core radiator is like saying short is better than tall. If you have a 3" thick core, and you have a single 3" round tube, it's going to be less efficient than three 1" round tubes. Why? b/c the three smaller tubes have a better surface area/volume ratio. The design of the tubes is more important than the number of rows (to an extent).

The trick is to balance & match all 3 components.

Now, a colder Tstat will do absolutely nothing for you (in a jeep) other than waste a little bit of gas. The computer is programmed to keep the engine running at ~210*. If it gets below that, it runs rich to get back to it's optimum temperature (think warm-up in winter mode). The engine will always be fighting the cooling system, all overheating issues can/will be fixed by looking for the root of the problem instead of trying to make the engine run cooler.
 
#196 ·
That's all nice and wonderful, but you've missed several key points in your assessment.

First, in a TJ and last I looked we were still in the TJ forum, your front to back core depth is limited at the front by the cut-out in the grill and the back by the proximity to the fan clutch. That essentially means our core depths are going to be similar and in a similar core depth, you can say that 1, 2, or 3 tubes will cool more efficiently by merely noting your other rule you were correct about. That being the one about coolant contact with the tube wall or that ultimate surface area.

In the same core depth due to manufacturing methods and space restrictions, there has to be a space or interstice between the tubes in a given row. 1 single tube has the most surface area due to no space. Two tubes is next because there is only 1 space between them and then dragging up the rear is the 3 tube row because there are two spaces which eat up coolant to tube wall contact.

Due to the properties of thin wall tubes, they are also very similar in width to achieve the correct balance between wall thickness and strength. That single aspect has been the biggest drawback to aluminum radiators until they solved it on the manufacturing side. It's also the limitation to tube width front to back which is why most tubes max out around 3/4".

Similarly as I pointed out previous, the number of rows of tubes side to side is also a factor. Do we know how many tubes are in the aftermarket cores versus the stock core? I know that the copper and brass versions we've looked at so far do NOT have the same number.

And, you left out tube to fin contact and design density which is the single most important aspect of the radiator after coolant to tube wall surface area. Again as you've alluded to, balance has to be achieved. If you get high CFM air flow rates through the core by decreasing the number of fins per inch, you lose thermal extraction. If you go the other way and really pack the fins in there, you lose air flow because the fin density is too high and again, you lose thermal extraction. The OEM radiator does a mighty fine job with that balance.

All things being equal, a large single row with the correct fin density would be the most efficient in a given core depth. Since we can't readily increase core depth, a 3 row just plain sucks.
 
#203 ·
Wouldnt dispersing the heat be just as important as conducting the heat?

If you keep the cores and fins cooler, wouldnt the fluid inside also be cooled more than if the core's and fins where holding the heat?
 
#207 ·
Don't get so dam defensive. I did not question your knowlege or experience. I only asked you to clear up some conflicting information in your statement.

SO...

How does the coolant to tube surface area decrease in a 3 row radiator compared to a 1 row radiator (like your statement suggests)? What are actuall dimensions in comparison to each other?

If you have such a strong grasp of what works and does not work when it comes to a radiator, it shouldnt be hard for you to explain why your previous statement seems contradicting to me.
 
#208 ·
Question

Do all Jeep threads turn into this? Ha ha ha I want to replace my OEM radiator thats leaking on top and priced out an Auto Zone radiator at 199. I looked on Ebay and found the Champion 2 Row for 169 + 30 shipping to = 199.
What would be the better choice for off roading? My Dad has two top of the line high efficiency A/C units on the house and they both have copper tubing in the "cooling towers". The "fins" however, look aluminum. So what gives?
 
#210 ·
Do all Jeep threads turn into this? Ha ha ha I want to replace my OEM radiator thats leaking on top and priced out an Auto Zone radiator at 199. I looked on Ebay and found the Champion 2 Row for 169 + 30 shipping to = 199.
What would be the better choice for off roading? My Dad has two top of the line high efficiency A/C units on the house and they both have copper tubing in the "cooling towers". The "fins" however, look aluminum. So what gives?
copper has a higher thermal conductivity than aluminum, but it's relatively soft as far as metals go. I think aluminum is used to help strengthen the structure, while still providing better thermal conductivity than other metals.
 
#211 ·
Blaine, where are you getting your aluminum and plastic radiators and who is making them? at 160,000miles I am staring down the barrel of my second tank seal failure on my rig. First hand I can name four other TJs that have had simular luck with the oem type part. Seems like they last 80,000 miles or 5 years whichever comes first around these parts. My first two were Mopar original equipment. I want this next one to be the last one (and not because I break the rig:shhh:)
 
#214 ·
Out here, they will typically weep a small amount once they start for about a year or so.

We also notice it happening when the weather changes from warmer to cooler to start the weeping.

It's typically such a mild problem and goes away once the engine warms up that I don't replace them until they get a lot worse.
 
#216 ·
Maybe, but it takes quite a bit of time before they get bad enough to replace and you can pull one and recrimp the seal slightly.

The funny thing to me is the bottom ones never do it, only the top seal. I wonder why?
 
#217 ·
I would suspect the higher temps at the top of the raidiator once the air flow stops and the truck is shut-off. On the ones I have seen the bottom tank did it too. Not as bad as the top and the top is always the first to let go. My top has started now for about a month hence this thread peaking my interest. I anticipate the bottom starting any day now. I am glad to see that this is as common for the rest of the contry as it has proven to be in my jeep corner. Thanks again Blaine.
 
#219 ·
Again, the one that I worked on was overheating when I got it and it left with no reported overheating to date about a year later.

I used a 7 blade fan, heavy duty clutch, and a 2 row aluminum radiator from Griffin that was equivalent to 2 stock TJ radiators and I had to move the motor back to fit it up. I also modified a stock fan shroud to work perfectly with the new crossflow radiator.
 
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