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Unread 04-22-2010, 12:49 AM   #46
2006_Sport
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So by looking at your chart mudb8, if im running the 2 inch BDS lift and a 1.25 inch BL with 33s I won't need to bumpstop because the BL eliminates the need for an inch of extended bumpstop. Correct?

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Unread 04-22-2010, 02:54 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006sport View Post
So by looking at your chart mudb8, if im running the 2 inch BDS lift and a 1.25 inch BL with 33s I won't need to bumpstop because the BL eliminates the need for an inch of extended bumpstop. Correct?
the 33's with a 1.25" BL will need at least 1" bumpstop extension since they need a minimum of 2" without a BL. The BDS shocks are left to question... how long are they collapsed? They may need 2" extensions to keep them from bottoming out. I have conflicting info on BDS shock lengths.
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Unread 04-22-2010, 07:27 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mudb8 View Post
The "Fuzzy points", since you don't get it, are the different shock extended and collaplsed lengths with the same or less travel. for example,
OME N66L shocks are 15.5" collapsed and 26.5" extended... 11" travel..
Rancho 9000 rs999255 shocks are 15.875" collapsed and 25.875" extended... 10" travel.
Or an 11" travel Bilstein that has a 17" collapsed length and a 28" extended length....

SO, for those looking for a good ride and best flex, are best off to use the shortest collapsed length with longer travel that requires less bumpstop extension, The Bilstien, stuck in stock mounts will literally stink due to the length.... Thats all fact, not my Opinion. I put things together properly that work and perform best. For those that are putting on 35's and need 3" bumpstop extensions, the Variables switch gears allowing the use a longer collapsed length shock, just because it'll fit the application but will not ride as well due to the reduced suspension uptravel, the other problem is the shocks allow the axle to droop beyond the uncompressed length of the spring and is basicly unuseable. That extra droop causes extreme angles with Short Arm/Mid arms and Contributes to extreme rear steer due to unbalanced travel.

Sure, it make sense to get a short shock with long travel, but how will you find out what is the correct length? Your chart? Doubtful. I cant believe that you would actually discourage someone from actually taking a real-time measurement of their rig and being able to take into account all the variables involved with getting your tires to stuff, droop, and turn. 3" springs alone come in a multitude of extended lengths. As a enthusiast I would rather know for a fact. You say that you don't care if the flares rub, well that's your opinion. I would rather teach someone to do it themselves rather than rely on your supposed e-experience to guide me (e.g. tired polaroids).

Jenn's LJ ran n66s and 4" coils and a BL, and it needed every bit of 3.75" of bumpstop to keep the tires from bending the fenders. The shock was not the limiting factor, the arms and the sheetmetal was. I ran a center limiting strap to combat the anti-dive from the 4" lift and SAs.

There is NO way you can run effectively 2.5" coils with 14" of "balanced travel" on SAs. You can claim that all you want, but it's not practical. At 7" of droop, the front axle will drive under the rig on undercuts and the rear will do the same on climbs. You recognize this yourself in the text above. The extreme angle is due to the arm operating out of the designed arc and excessive lift.


Several threads ago, you claimed that your adjustable trackbar prevents rear-steer. Never explained how you came to that conclusion. Its been months and I still waiting for an explanation.

You also state that rear steer is due anti-squat and your LT SA suspension is able to tune it out. Tell me about that theory while you're at it. PLEASE educate me.

I removed my mid-arms to upgrade. I know that concept may be completely foreign to you, but motivated people do that. For some of us, 35s and factory axles get old fast. For someone who has performed "thousands" of modifications on jeeps you sure haven't done any to yours. My point is I've already been there and my jeep has evolved forward. However, just by doing so does not qualify me to offer advice to shannon campbell or dustin webster on a KOH build. Until you do something besides make due with your stock jeep, keep your opinions on custom suspension the bunny trails.

Oh, and it's bilstein not bilstien.
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Last edited by atxzj; 04-22-2010 at 07:40 PM..
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Unread 04-22-2010, 09:28 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atxzj View Post
Sure, it make sense to get a short shock with long travel, but how will you find out what is the correct length? Your chart? Doubtful. I cant believe that you would actually discourage someone from actually taking a real-time measurement of their rig and being able to take into account all the variables involved with getting your tires to stuff, droop, and turn. 3" springs alone come in a multitude of extended lengths. As a enthusiast I would rather know for a fact. You say that you don't care if the flares rub, well that's your opinion. I would rather teach someone to do it themselves rather than rely on your supposed e-experience to guide me (e.g. tired polaroids).


Several threads ago, you claimed that your adjustable trackbar prevents rear-steer. Never explained how you came to that conclusion. Its been months and I still waiting for an explanation.

You also state that rear steer is due anti-squat and your LT SA suspension is able to tune it out. Tell me about that theory while you're at it. PLEASE educate me.

I removed my mid-arms to upgrade. I know that concept may be completely foreign to you, but motivated people do that. For some of us, 35s and factory axles get old fast. For someone who has performed "thousands" of modifications on jeeps you sure haven't done any to yours. My point is I've already been there and my jeep has evolved forward. However, just by doing so does not qualify me to offer advice to shannon campbell or dustin webster on a KOH build. Until you do something besides make due with your stock jeep, keep your opinions on custom suspension the bunny trails.
I see now, you have a comprehension problem.

Obviously you have no Idea what I've done and do....

My jeep has nothing to do with this thread, anti squat/dive, rear steer or anything else besides bumpstop/shock length, tire size and how it's measured.
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DIY highline fenders.... 34-37's under 0"-2.5" lifts
shock length, bumpstop extension, tire size chart click here
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Unread 04-22-2010, 10:26 PM   #50
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My, what a presumptious ***. I'm not going to pretend to know you, MudB8, but I do appreciate all of the helpful information you've provided to the board so I'm just going to throw this example out there...

Did the notion ever strike you, atxzj, that the technician turning wrenches in the back of the Ferrari dealership may not make enough coin to comfortably support a family and drive the highest end, exotic, one-off custom car? Doesn't mean he can't turn a wrench and figure out a logical fix to just about any problem to occur on the finest of the rigs.

Way back when, I was pretty handy with the wrench on a 2 stroke bike and worked on some of the most wicked fast and capable race winners in the area though I never could afford to run what the more wealthy folks could. I got by on my 3 year old Honda RC250 just fine, and ignored pompous pricks with an attitude like you put forth. I enjoyed my time riding just the same, and didn't have a problem helping others learn more about going farther, faster, and more comfortably.

The point of an internet board is to help others learn. You aren't helping any of us, especially MudB8. Frankly, you're doing nothing but wasting time and space. So if he's wrong, then point out where and explain why. Your condescending attitude is disgusting. This is all I have to say to you and I won't allow you to waste any of my time further. If you're such a hardcore 4x4 guru go spend some time at Pirate and let them folks over there chew you up and spit you out a few times. In case you're too blind to notice, most of us folks here are novice to intermediate and learn a great deal from folks more advanced who are friendly enough to share information. So, if you want to keep making enemies, keep taking a dump on good folks like MudB8. Good day.
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Unread 04-23-2010, 07:07 AM   #51
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Mud,

It's time to look at my sig line. Some people are simply not worth the time. I know the quality and skill you put into your work.
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Unread 04-23-2010, 07:31 PM   #52
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can you guys help me out? im swapping my RC lift for OME coils and shocks tomorrow. i got the long travel shocks. N66L and N67L front and rear, respectively. collapsed length is 15.5" and extended is 26.5". what size bumpstops am i gonna need?

2.5" lift, 1.25BL, 33's
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Unread 04-23-2010, 08:12 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by yellowismellow View Post
can you guys help me out? im swapping my RC lift for OME coils and shocks tomorrow. i got the long travel shocks. N66L and N67L front and rear, respectively. collapsed length is 15.5" and extended is 26.5". what size bumpstops am i gonna need?

2.5" lift, 1.25BL, 33's
2" front and rear for sure, might need more, let mudb8 confirm... springs are going to unseat with those shocks...normal N66/N67 shocks work better w. 2.5" lift unless you're relocating shock mounts...
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Unread 04-23-2010, 08:56 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowismellow View Post
can you guys help me out? im swapping my RC lift for OME coils and shocks tomorrow. i got the long travel shocks. N66L and N67L front and rear, respectively. collapsed length is 15.5" and extended is 26.5". what size bumpstops am i gonna need?

2.5" lift, 1.25BL, 33's
yup...

minimum 2" front and the rear will be around 3". N67L shocks are 14.5" extended which is too long for a 2.5" lift. You'll need to relocate the rear lower mounts to avoid shock damage/denting/rubing, especially if you have a sye/cv shaft. They will hit the rear coil buckets, exhaust and tank skid if you use RC's shock shifters, RE's, Tera's and Curries, which also reduce the uptravel. The mounts need to be relocated to the fix the problems you'll have including a whopping 2.75" uptravel.

you'll be looking like this with the RC coils, but there is already a 2" bumpstop extension on the LJ pictured.... You'll notice there is a shock relocation bracket that has the shock mount elevated and pushed away from the axle, those things are not a good way to relocate a shock for obvious reasons.



to measure the OME shocks, mark the shock at the bottom of the dust sheild in the mount at ride heigh, unbolt the lower mount and shove the shock up to fully compress it, make another mark at the bottom of the dust sheild, release and measure the distance between the marks...



the coils in the pics are HD OME coils on an unlimited, the RC coils measure out nearly the same on a TJ.

One more thing..... what are you using for a front track bar? riddlers are not friendly to Track Bars without ridiculous amounts of bumpstop extension.
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I want your factory 07-up take-off/thrown out JK front/rear Lower Control Arms! Bent ones are perfect also as long as the bushings and cold cut rings are in good shape/useable


HighLine Hood Jeepers
TJ Adjustable Track bars
DIY highline fenders.... 34-37's under 0"-2.5" lifts
shock length, bumpstop extension, tire size chart click here
DIY shock shifters, more uptravel/better ride




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Unread 04-23-2010, 09:57 PM   #55
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stock trackbars no relocation brackets. i havent have many problems in that area (yet). so should i be sending back the long travel shocks for the normal ones? i used DPG-offroad when i ordered everything.
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Unread 04-23-2010, 10:52 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by yellowismellow View Post
stock trackbars no relocation brackets. i havent have many problems in that area (yet). so should i be sending back the long travel shocks for the normal ones? i used DPG-offroad when i ordered everything.
Thats entirely up to you, I can only show you what I've run into and how I have fixed it on many TJ/LJ's around here.. Dirk and I have different opinions on the 2.5" with "L" rear shocks. I've measured and fixed the problem.

I would use N67 standard rear shocks with the OME 2.5" coils unless you intend to at least lower and outboard the lower mounts... I set em up with at least 1.25" bumpstop extensions using the n67 standard shocks. don't forget to consider what you need for the tires as well.. I prefer the longer shocks relocated but if you want the best ride possible and don't need around 3" bumpstop extension to keep the tires out of the fenders, the n67 is a bolt on and go with no harsh ride from the lack of uptravel especially loaded with gear.

I used the OME supplied 3/4" spacers on cb3's with relocation...






there is another thread "RC 2.5" shocks too long" you can look at, they are/were, the same length as the N67L's
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I want your factory 07-up take-off/thrown out JK front/rear Lower Control Arms! Bent ones are perfect also as long as the bushings and cold cut rings are in good shape/useable


HighLine Hood Jeepers
TJ Adjustable Track bars
DIY highline fenders.... 34-37's under 0"-2.5" lifts
shock length, bumpstop extension, tire size chart click here
DIY shock shifters, more uptravel/better ride




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Unread 04-24-2010, 07:44 AM   #57
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well for now, im gonna just put the shocks on there with bumpstops, it'll be better than what im running now(no rear shocks, ripped off when wheeling last month), and eventually i'll pick up some relocation brackets and move the shocks. so 3 inches of extension for my bumpstops is the verdict for now?
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Unread 04-24-2010, 07:54 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by yellowismellow View Post
well for now, im gonna just put the shocks on there with bumpstops, it'll be better than what im running now(no rear shocks, ripped off when wheeling last month), and eventually i'll pick up some relocation brackets and move the shocks. so 3 inches of extension for my bumpstops is the verdict for now?
that'll be close, just be sure to check. The lack of proper extension is the reason bar pins/bushings, and mounts get damaged or ripped off.
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I want your factory 07-up take-off/thrown out JK front/rear Lower Control Arms! Bent ones are perfect also as long as the bushings and cold cut rings are in good shape/useable


HighLine Hood Jeepers
TJ Adjustable Track bars
DIY highline fenders.... 34-37's under 0"-2.5" lifts
shock length, bumpstop extension, tire size chart click here
DIY shock shifters, more uptravel/better ride




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Unread 04-24-2010, 08:59 AM   #59
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thanks for the quick replies mudb8, how do i go about checking everything is functioning like it should?
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Unread 04-24-2010, 11:01 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by yellowismellow View Post
thanks for the quick replies mudb8, how do i go about checking everything is functioning like it should?


use the pic above and measure it... unless you want to pull springs and set it down till the shocks bottom out, then measure the distance between the metal cup and the spring pad with the rubber stop removed that will also show you the unflexed tire clearance, track bar relocation bracket to tub clearance, track bar to tank skid clearance and track bar to diff clearance up front.
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I want your factory 07-up take-off/thrown out JK front/rear Lower Control Arms! Bent ones are perfect also as long as the bushings and cold cut rings are in good shape/useable


HighLine Hood Jeepers
TJ Adjustable Track bars
DIY highline fenders.... 34-37's under 0"-2.5" lifts
shock length, bumpstop extension, tire size chart click here
DIY shock shifters, more uptravel/better ride




2011 E-350 4x4 Van conversion

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