Broken teeth on ring gears any gear setup gurus out there? - JeepForum.com
 
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post #1 of 14 Old 01-20-2010, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
daveshan
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Broken teeth on ring gears any gear setup gurus out there?

Well, after 2 seasons of beating on it I opened up my diff's to change the lube and found this. Two teeth broken off of the ring gear in front and one in back.

I know I've been merciless on this thing but I just wanted to know if it looks like the pinion may have been not deep enough since all 3 teeth are only broken on the outer part. The pics are only of the front, the rear one is similar but a smaller chunk taken off.

Reason for asking is I'm taking it back in for new gears and if the setup was bad on it I want to go elsewhere.

The teeth are not next to each other so there is one pic of each.





Thanks for any input.
Dave


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post #2 of 14 Old 01-20-2010, 04:07 PM
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Wow doesnt look like enough depth was put in since it broke the gears off on the outer area. Hope everything resolves for you!

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post #3 of 14 Old 01-20-2010, 06:17 PM Thread Starter
daveshan
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Yea that's what I figured also, anyone else got gear experience?
Thanks
Dave

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post #4 of 14 Old 01-20-2010, 06:26 PM
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I don't know how to diagnose patterns but.....I have run gears for a LONG time that have one or two broken teeth. Just clean it up real good and file off any sharp edges (if there are any left). If it is the ratio you want, you might as well "runnum till they break".

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post #5 of 14 Old 01-20-2010, 07:31 PM
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I love failure analysis!

Dug out my old Rockwell Drivetrain failure analysis manual! Still hypoid gears like Spicer.

It confirms my first thought that it was a "shock load", they typically fail in groups of three or however many teeth are engaged with the pinion at the time of the shock load. Adjacent teeth may actually be cracked and ready to fail.

Look closely at the fracture, it will most likely have a rough crystalline appearance to confirm a shock load.

The most likely causes would be popping the clutch* or hitting dry pavement with a spinning wheel under a load. Doing this in reverse would be suspect since the designed strength of the gears is for forward motion. That may be the cause of the partial fracture.

I don't see improper setup causing a single tooth failure, is any spalling (pitting) visible on the tooth contact face?

*Assuming it was a manual but could still be abused with an automatic.
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post #6 of 14 Old 01-20-2010, 07:40 PM
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i'm talking out of my *** here, but. I think the smooth area in blue was the original crack/failure. When that happened the force ripped the tooth the rest of the way off. looking at the rough area in pink.
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post #7 of 14 Old 01-21-2010, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys, I pretty much assumed it was due to shock load, I got it to bouncing quite a few times and those Creepy Crawlers hook up very well leading to what you see above. I was probably lucky to get 2 seasons out of it keeping up with the guys I play with

My main question was about possible setup issues with only the outer parts of the teeth broken off. Looks like that may not have been an issue, good thing as gear setup guys are rare around here.

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post #8 of 14 Old 01-21-2010, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by never monday View Post


i'm talking out of my *** here, but. I think the smooth area in blue was the original crack/failure. When that happened the force ripped the tooth the rest of the way off. looking at the rough area in pink.
Most likely you're correct! Hypoid teeth subjected to shock loads may not fail instantly, but instead are damaged then may fail later in a fatigue mode. Fatigue failures will exhibit "beach marks" which are concentric striations exhibited in the fracture.

No visible beach marks supports the shock load failure. It may take microscopic examination of the fracture to observe any beach marks.

Be aware that the pinion teeth were subjected to the same forces and may be weakened and also fail later.

In any event the parts are broken and need to be replaced. No doubt that off roading our Jeeps may break something.

I suggest you speak to your installer as they may have seen this failure mode in the past. There may differences between automotive and heavy duty failures.
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post #9 of 14 Old 01-21-2010, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveshan View Post
Thanks guys, I pretty much assumed it was due to shock load, I got it to bouncing quite a few times and those Creepy Crawlers hook up very well leading to what you see above. I was probably lucky to get 2 seasons out of it keeping up with the guys I play with

My main question was about possible setup issues with only the outer parts of the teeth broken off. Looks like that may not have been an issue, good thing as gear setup guys are rare around here.
Although its not a good situation, I am glad to hear it had nothing to do with the shop that installed the gears. Hope the damage isn't too bad to the ole pocket book.

Good luck bud!

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post #10 of 14 Old 01-21-2010, 06:05 PM
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So, what brand of gears were they?

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post #11 of 14 Old 01-21-2010, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyrotyro View Post
Although its not a good situation, I am glad to hear it had nothing to do with the shop that installed the gears. Hope the damage isn't too bad to the ole pocket book.

Good luck bud!
Well if anyone knows what trails it probably happened on it would be you Things like this will happen, I guess we could stay away from Farmington . . . . . . . . . NAHH Looks like Lance is off the hot seat.

Lets just say the new tires for the tow rig will have to wait for a few months And that's assuming the ARBs didn't get damaged by the chunks.

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So, what brand of gears were they?
Yukon, I told the shop this time I want Superior.

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post #12 of 14 Old 01-21-2010, 08:25 PM
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Shock load yes but that looks like deflection it broke on the heal, the preloads were probably not set up tight enough. allowing deflection. If your looking for the best ring and pinion put a nitro in it. Call us if you need a ring gear. Failure was probably not the gear. What size tires are you running? Motor? Is that a dana 44.

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post #13 of 14 Old 01-21-2010, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input, it's a 4.0/5speed, 4.88 gears. The pics are of the front HP30, rear 44 had one tooth with a small chip in the same area. Tires are 35" Maxxis Creepy Crawlers.

I'll tell the installer about Nitro and give him your info'.

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post #14 of 14 Old 01-22-2010, 10:27 AM
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It also looks like the tooth above the broken one is slightly deformed. As if it already cracked and was on its way to being town off. It might just be the angle of the camera but it doesn't follow the sweep of the other teeth. If that makes any sense.

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