Brake Failure. HELP!

Florida_Model · 07-09-2009, 06:36 PM

Ok, so I've noticed a gradual increase in the sponginess of my brake pedal (great diagnostic term I know..), and when I went to leave the Clerk of Court today (seat belt ticket, FAIL

), my pedal traveled to the ground the emergency brake light came on and started beeping and flashing.

Now, at my last oil change, the Tires Plus mechanic claimed my drums were leaking and both needed to be entirely replaced, which I took as he was assuming I was ignorant (college town assumption). Yes I noticed my reservoir was lower then the last time I checked, but I also ride my brakes really hard and figured my fluid was adjusted according to my brake wear.

I filled it up today with almost an entire container of DOT3 once I very carefully navigated my way home, and after topping off, resulted with zero pressure in the pedal. I pumped it for a while to see if I could find a leak but to no avail.

Is this air in the lines? master cylinder? Am I in need of replacing the drums? lots of questions.. I have sockets and basic tools, but am I looking at a task too daunting for my limited supplies(and time)? If it's just air in the lines, do I need to purchase speed bleeders? has anyone had this problem and has anyone bled their brake lines before? I've done it once on my all disc mazda, but that was when I was upgrading the rear calipers that seized on me, and I didn't do it correctly(bled back 2 only, old school pail and hose route)

Thanks in advance, I don't have a ride to work or school until this is resolved!

**Divinitous** · 07-09-2009, 06:42 PM

I'd start with taking the rear tires off and checking the drums.

If you losing fluid like that I would assume you have a serious problem, not air in the lines.

Florida_Model · 07-09-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinitous

I'd start with taking the rear tires off and checking the drums.

If you losing fluid like that I would assume you have a serious problem, not air in the lines.

Well, I lost that amount of fluid over a span of 4+ months, my initial feeling is that when the reservoir got low it sucked air into the lines, is that a poor assumption? I honestly feel that replacing the drums is a poor move, and I would hate to have to replace those. I would rather upgrade to discs if I am going to be ******* out that much cash.

**TheBoogieman** · 07-09-2009, 06:56 PM

Leaking rear wheel cylinders?Drums don't leak.

Alawrimore · 07-09-2009, 07:06 PM

Already replace one rear wheel cylinder and I think the other one is leaking now. Not a really hard job just a pain because I hate drum brakes. I would check those first

Florida_Model · 07-09-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alawrimore

Already replace one rear wheel cylinder and I think the other one is leaking now. Not a really hard job just a pain because I hate drum brakes. I would check those first

Im just repeating what the "mechanic" said lol. I wasn't too sure the drum could leak, so the rear cylinder could be the culprit? what were the approx. costs of that, and how much labor was involved? I'm not as worried about replacing that as I am about getting brake pressure back. I'll tackle that hurdle when the time comes. or could that possibly cause the total loss of pressure?

thanks for the fast responses everyone

**TheBoogieman** · 07-09-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florida_Model

Im just repeating what the "mechanic" said lol. I wasn't too sure the drum could leak, so the rear cylinder could be the culprit? what were the approx. costs of that, and how much labor was involved? I'm not as worried about replacing that as I am about getting brake pressure back. I'll tackle that hurdle when the time comes. or could that possibly cause the total loss of pressure?

thanks for the fast responses everyone

They're inexpensive to buy and do yourself.A place like Mieneke would charge $125+.Loss of fuid would cause loss of pressure.

Florida_Model · 07-09-2009, 07:26 PM

oh ok,but I refilled the reservoir and I still have no pressure, so where is the loss of pressure coming from now?

**TheBoogieman** · 07-09-2009, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florida_Model

oh ok,but I refilled the reservoir and I still have no pressure, so where is the loss of pressure coming from now?

It could be something else.Maybe MrBlaine the brake specialist will chime in.

Florida_Model · 07-09-2009, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theboogieman

It could be something else.Maybe MrBlaine the brake specialist will chime in.

I was hoping he would share his expertise.

jeeptj19992001 · 07-09-2009, 08:23 PM

if yopu lost tooo much fluid you will get air into the system, it will need to be purged

**dragginwagon406** · 07-09-2009, 10:01 PM

On other vehicles, I have seen the self adjusters lock up and the brake wheel cylinder hyperextends to reach the shoes and the pistons fly out. This causes a massive, short fluid loss accompanied with a locking of the proportioning valve which prevents loss of front brakes too. In order to get fluid back to the rear brakes, you have to push in on the end of the proporting valve to reset. Not saying this is on the Jeep, but it is typical.

You will not loose any more fluid until the proportioning valve is reset in this case.

**mrblaine** · 07-09-2009, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florida_Model

Ok, so I've noticed a gradual increase in the sponginess of my brake pedal (great diagnostic term I know..), and when I went to leave the Clerk of Court today (seat belt ticket, FAIL

), my pedal traveled to the ground the emergency brake light came on and started beeping and flashing.

Now, at my last oil change, the Tires Plus mechanic claimed my drums were leaking and both needed to be entirely replaced, which I took as he was assuming I was ignorant (college town assumption). Yes I noticed my reservoir was lower then the last time I checked, but I also ride my brakes really hard and figured my fluid was adjusted according to my brake wear.

I filled it up today with almost an entire container of DOT3 once I very carefully navigated my way home, and after topping off, resulted with zero pressure in the pedal. I pumped it for a while to see if I could find a leak but to no avail.

Is this air in the lines? master cylinder? Am I in need of replacing the drums? lots of questions.. I have sockets and basic tools, but am I looking at a task too daunting for my limited supplies(and time)? If it's just air in the lines, do I need to purchase speed bleeders? has anyone had this problem and has anyone bled their brake lines before? I've done it once on my all disc mazda, but that was when I was upgrading the rear calipers that seized on me, and I didn't do it correctly(bled back 2 only, old school pail and hose route)

Thanks in advance, I don't have a ride to work or school until this is resolved!

How much fluid was in the reservoir when you topped it off?

When is the last time you manually adjusted your rear brake shoes?

Scotti · 07-09-2009, 10:59 PM

Ok, this is pretty simple stuff, If you have a leak you would see it. Look at all wheels underneath the car inside the wheel from underneath the car, look for anything wet, follow the lines from the master to each wheel look for fluid. Next go buy the $12.00 Haynes, then remove the back wheels and drums, look for fluid if everthing is wet then the cylinder is leaking. Remember if you have a leak your getting air in the system, and yes you will need to bleed the brakes after replaceing a cylinder. If things are wet you need to wash down everything including the shoes, drums, cyl. with brake Klean...

Scotti

**mrblaine** · 07-09-2009, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotti

Ok, this is pretty simple stuff, If you have a leak you would see it.

Not necessarily. If the front brake circuit loses the back seal, it could leak all of the fluid into the booster and you'd never see it until you pulled the master.

Quote:

Look at all wheels underneath the car inside the wheel from underneath the car, look for anything wet, follow the lines from the master to each wheel look for fluid. Next go buy the $12.00 Haynes, then remove the back wheels and drums, look for fluid if everthing is wet then the cylinder is leaking. Remember if you have a leak your getting air in the system, and yes you will need to bleed the brakes after replaceing a cylinder. If things are wet you need to wash down everything including the shoes, drums, cyl. with brake Klean...

Scotti

All good advice, but I'd rather find out how full the reservoir was first and then find out if we're just dealing with worn rear shoes that have never been adjusted.

However, my money is still on a leak somewhere.

07-09-2009, 08:23 PM	#11
jeeptj19992001 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bushkill pa Posts: 1,087 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps	if yopu lost tooo much fluid you will get air into the system, it will need to be purged __________________ 03 rubi....growing bigger and better every day...

07-09-2009, 10:59 PM	#14
Scotti Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Calif. Posts: 69 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps	Ok, this is pretty simple stuff, If you have a leak you would see it. Look at all wheels underneath the car inside the wheel from underneath the car, look for anything wet, follow the lines from the master to each wheel look for fluid. Next go buy the $12.00 Haynes, then remove the back wheels and drums, look for fluid if everthing is wet then the cylinder is leaking. Remember if you have a leak your getting air in the system, and yes you will need to bleed the brakes after replaceing a cylinder. If things are wet you need to wash down everything including the shoes, drums, cyl. with brake Klean... Scotti