Is Blaine big brake kit done for?

**spyder6** · 07-26-2009, 07:48 AM

http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/techarticles/drivetrain/131_0909_aev_jeep_wrangler_yj_tj_brakes/index.html

i think not, plus some how i think that blaines kit will be a LOT cheaper

**Unlimited04** · 07-26-2009, 07:50 AM

well Vanco's kit also fits in 15" wheels, or can be upgraded to bigger brakes for 16" wheels. this AEV kit require 17" wheels. how many people run 17" wheels on a TJ or YJ? come on!

**spyder6** · 07-26-2009, 07:56 AM

well to be honest, the thing that has kept me from getting blaines kit is the fact that he doesnt have a 17" kit out yet. i keep pestering him to make one but hes always busy working on something else or making fun of Gerald's stature.

sportcoupe · 07-26-2009, 08:04 AM

I don't thing the TJ market has a demand for a 17" wheel brake package. Every TJ I know has 15" wheels in one form or another for maximum tire sidewall.

**Unlimited04** · 07-26-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyder6

well to be honest, the thing that has kept me from getting blaines kit is the fact that he doesnt have a 17" kit out yet. i keep pestering him to make one but hes always busy working on something else or making fun of Gerald's stature.

if you want the best braking, i can't imagine the Vanco 16" big brake kit + hydroboost wouldn't be enough for you.

**daveshan** · 07-26-2009, 08:13 AM

The only person I have seen running 17" wheels with tires smaller than 39-40" on either a TJ or XJ is a buddy of mine who got some brand new free 35" ProComp tires from his dad. It was worth his while to buy new rims to fit them. If anyone is going much bigger than 35"s they would probably be upgrading the axles and I would think the stock brakes from the upgraded axles would be fine.

Considering this kit comes from AEV ($$$$$) and the fact that most of us (all?) would have to buy new tires/wheels to fit it I don't see it being a threat to Vancos.

**spyder6** · 07-26-2009, 08:14 AM

AEV says they're planning on coming out with a 16" brake setup, but a 15" kit would be worthless because the amount of braking performance gained would be null. ALSO you have to use redrilled ram brakes

with that said, i'll stick with blaines brakes myself, id like to be able to go into an advanced or an o'reilies and say i need a ford rotor and just put it on.

**Unlimited04** · 07-26-2009, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyder6

but a 15" kit would be worthless because the amount of braking performance gained would be null.

really? don't let Jerry, mrblaine or Stu see that.

http://www.stu-offroad.com/suspension/vancobigbrake/bigbrake-1.htm

**spyder6** · 07-26-2009, 08:17 AM

hey its not my opinion! thats what Jeff at AEV said

robncar · 07-26-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyder6

hey its not my opinion! thats what Jeff at AEV said

We were able to shoehorn the 16" kit into our 15" wheels. They are 15x10 AR Outlaw II's with 4" BS. It is very tight though. No more tape balance weights and we had to grind the pad clips slightly. The stopping power is amazing.

BarneyJEEP · 07-26-2009, 08:49 AM

i imagine the AEV kit fits 17" wheels, cause...well...that the size wheels they sell...

jgorm · 07-26-2009, 09:40 AM

You don't always have to go to bigger rotors to get increased stopping power. Clamping force is the other side of the equation. For race cars, larger rotors are always better for the increased cooling required for racing. I can't really see a situation where a jeep will ever overheat the rotors. The main thing for jeep guys would be panic stops. Has anyone fitted a 4 piston fixed caliper on the stock rotors? What about even a 2 piston floating caliper? I wonder if my old mustang brakes will fit?

**mrblaine** · 07-26-2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyder6

AEV says they're planning on coming out with a 16" brake setup, but a 15" kit would be worthless because the amount of braking performance gained would be null. ALSO you have to use redrilled ram brakes

with that said, i'll stick with blaines brakes myself, id like to be able to go into an advanced or an o'reilies and say i need a ford rotor and just put it on.

Several things, none of which are meant to disparage AEV and Dave in the least.
Van sent them a few brake kits because they were looking for something to offer on their V-8 conversions about 3 years ago. I spent a fair bit of time on the phone going over the installations with Dave and he was never very happy or seemed very happy with the performance of the kits. I asked if he could lock up the fronts and he replied in the negative. I then related that his installer had either not done the break in correctly or had not bled them correctly. I was informed that the installer was very good and had done both right.

That lack of performance has not been my experience or that of 100's of folks that have installed the kit.

As far as the comments about the 15" kit, I will invite anyone at AEV or elsewhere to do a 15" brake kit comparison on a TJ on 35's. Van's 15" kit can, will, and does provide a huge increase in stopping performance to the point where if you couldn't lock up 35's before, you will now be able to.

The article mentions them "seeing" stopping distances go from 17x' to 150'. There's a reason it's worded that way. Van and I and several customers across the nation attempted to define the stopping distances of the TJ in both the stock form and then with Van's upgraded brakes.

At best, the very best you can come up with is a suggested average and neither Van or I felt it was accurate enough to use it as a selling point.

Anyone with a TJ on larger tires is welcome to give it a shot and see what we're up against. Everyone knows or should know that a statistical analysis of 1 sample is useless, so that means you have to do several stopping distance tests and average them together to arrive at a somewhat correct number.

So, go do that. Find a safe road you can play on that has a good benchmark you can start your stop at. A mailbox, pole, or something next to the road you can start you stop at from 50 mph and then do 5 stops, get out and mark each one with some chalk or something so you know where you stopped.

You'll be exceptionally good and lucky if you can get 5 stops within 20 feet of each other. The article also fails to give the MPH at which their "seen" stopping distances apply to. If that's from 70 mph, that's a pretty good feat to stop 20 feet shorter, if it's from 35 mph, then not so good.

Point being, if you can't nail down the stock benchmark, then what good does providing an "improved" number do for anyone? Also, say for example they did give a mph distance reduction and say, for the sake of discussion, it was 150' from 60 mph. Then a customer with the kit has the misfortune to hit someone and the measured distance is 160' that his stop took because of road conditions and all the variables that brings to the table.

The customer then wants to know where his other 10' went, which in a lot of cases is the difference between a rear end collision and not. That wound up being a liability that Van just didn't feel like assuming because of how wide all the variables were and trust me, we did about 2-300 brake tests trying to figure out how to come up with those numbers. On one rig alone, we did so many that we ruined a set of expensive 35" tires.

So, it's a useless number because first off, it's hard to repeat, and secondly, without the MPH given, we know nothing about what the number represents.

Finally, a big CAUTION to anyone that tries to do the brake tests to see what I'm talking about. Trying to get a TJ to stop from 50 mph as fast and in the shortest distance possible is not very safe. It's very easy to get in trouble, so be very careful if you attempt it.

**mrblaine** · 07-26-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgorm

You don't always have to go to bigger rotors to get increased stopping power. Clamping force is the other side of the equation. For race cars, larger rotors are always better for the increased cooling required for racing. I can't really see a situation where a jeep will ever overheat the rotors. The main thing for jeep guys would be panic stops. Has anyone fitted a 4 piston fixed caliper on the stock rotors? What about even a 2 piston floating caliper? I wonder if my old mustang brakes will fit?

I've done the 4 piston fixed Wilwoods a few times and at best, they suck.

Lawrence · 07-26-2009, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unlimited04

how many people run 17" wheels on a TJ or YJ? come on!

I do, as well as several friends in Cali

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyder6

well to be honest, the thing that has kept me from getting blaines kit is the fact that he doesnt have a 17" kit out yet.

I am not sure why you are set on a 17" kit, the 15" & 16" work quite well. I helped Blaine and Van furher develop the kit by testing a slew of pads. At the time I had 17" rims, 35" tires, and I was testing the 15" kit. There were a few pads that did the job, but when we switched to the EBC Green pads, that kit went way beyond anyone's expectations. I now run the 16" kit with EBC pads and I am extremely happy. IMO, there is no need for a 17" kit when the 15" & 16" do the job. Personal preference here, but I also did not see the need for hydroboost, as my 16" kit performs flawlessly. However, I have driven a few TJs with Hydroboost, and it is a very nice product as well.