Bigger brakes... - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Wrangler Forums > TJ Wrangler Technical Forum > Bigger brakes...

WJ Shackle Tabs: Tow-Hook Replacements2014 Spartan Locker Special - While Supplies Last! Dana 3FS: 2007-2013 Jeep Wrangler "HALO" Angel Eye Kit

Reply
Unread 05-31-2007, 10:09 PM   #1
lj_wil
ekorb mi
 
lj_wil's Avatar
2006 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Heyweird
Posts: 1,206
Bigger brakes...

Looking at the Vanco brakes, why only the front disks?
I'm thinking to really update your brakes you would need all 4 disks, a stronger pump and probably thicker brake lines.

What have you done to upgrade your brakes?

__________________
W6FU

Some pics
lj_wil is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 05-31-2007, 10:30 PM   #2
mrblaine
Wizard of Brakes
 
mrblaine's Avatar
1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Quail Valley, California
Posts: 25,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by lj_wil
Looking at the Vanco brakes, why only the front disks?
Because when you get to the point where you start thinking about better brakes, it's usually because your OEM brakes are failing due to a higher center of gravity and bigger rotational masses of larger tires.

So you have a two fold issue to solve in that the larger heavier tires are harder to slow down and the weight transfer to the front brakes really brings out all of the deficiencies they have.

That means your front brakes are now being asked to do work they were never designed for and they perform poorly at best.
Quote:
I'm thinking to really update your brakes you would need all 4 disks
Properly maintained and adjusted, there is nothing wrong with rear drum brakes other than difficulties in adjustment and maintenance. They do fade easier, but only at the extreme end of day to day braking scenarios.

Quote:
a stronger pump
There is no pump in the TJ that affects braking performance other than the ABS pump and no one really knows how to upgrade or mess with that, not that it would make any difference.

However, the TJ does come from the factory with a very fine and high quality dual diaphragm booster and master cylinder. Combined with good brakes they are very capable of locking up 37's easily with no other modifications to anything.
Quote:
and probably thicker brake lines.
Thicker brake lines if you are referring to the diameter do nothing for you. In the testing I've done, not even stainless steel braided line outperform the OEM lines if they are functional.

Quote:
What have you done to upgrade your brakes?
Personally, I've done every brake mod known to man practically. Outside of some little gadget I saw once that bolted onto the master cylinder, I've done just about everything else.
__________________
I am Savvy
blackmagicbrakes.com
mrblaine is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 05-31-2007, 10:33 PM   #3
bman9089
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 12,791
good post mrblaine.
__________________


"The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville

“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it” -- Mark Twain

† Christian Jeep Club †
Romans 12:5 | 1 Peter 3:15 | Matthew 9:37-38
bman9089 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 05-31-2007, 10:38 PM   #4
lj_wil
ekorb mi
 
lj_wil's Avatar
2006 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Heyweird
Posts: 1,206
Great information, but I would not expect less coming from the horses mouth

So upgrading the front disks alone is reasonable for running 35's, with no other upgrades? Out of curiosity, will these same rotors fit on the rear disks as well?

Thanks again!
__________________
W6FU

Some pics
lj_wil is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-01-2007, 12:25 AM   #5
mrblaine
Wizard of Brakes
 
mrblaine's Avatar
1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Quail Valley, California
Posts: 25,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by lj_wil
Great information, but I would not expect less coming from the horses mouth

So upgrading the front disks alone is reasonable for running 35's, with no other upgrades? Out of curiosity, will these same rotors fit on the rear disks as well?

Thanks again!
You've confused me. Upgrading the front discs is not what Vanco does.
__________________
I am Savvy
blackmagicbrakes.com
mrblaine is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-01-2007, 08:19 AM   #6
lj_wil
ekorb mi
 
lj_wil's Avatar
2006 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Heyweird
Posts: 1,206
Sorry for the confusion, it's obvious that I'm not clear on quite a few things.

So, looking at this kit:
http://northridge4x4.com/proddetail....=VANCO-DISCKIT

It appears that the rotors, knuckles and pads are "bigger" and that this is a front brake kit. You've stated previously that upgrading to thicker lines don't really do anything, and that the OEM mastercylinder and booster are reasonable. You've done the testing so I am sold on all of this.

For those of us that have disc's all around, is it worth upgrading the same parts on the rear? Is a rear kit available? And if so, would that change any of the above?
__________________
W6FU

Some pics
lj_wil is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-01-2007, 08:59 AM   #7
mrblaine
Wizard of Brakes
 
mrblaine's Avatar
1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Quail Valley, California
Posts: 25,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by lj_wil
Sorry for the confusion, it's obvious that I'm not clear on quite a few things.

So, looking at this kit:
http://northridge4x4.com/proddetail....=VANCO-DISCKIT

It appears that the rotors, knuckles and pads are "bigger" and that this is a front brake kit.
The rotors, and calipers are bigger, it is a front brake kit, but the knuckle is OEM and has just been changed slightly to accept the adapter plates for the caliper.


Quote:
You've stated previously that upgrading to thicker lines don't really do anything, and that the OEM mastercylinder and booster are reasonable. You've done the testing so I am sold on all of this.

They booster and master is more than reasonable. It is capable of driving much larger systems than Van's small kit.


Quote:
For those of us that have disc's all around, is it worth upgrading the same parts on the rear? Is a rear kit available? And if so, would that change any of the above?
In all of the installs I"ve done, I've not seen the need to do anything to the rear brakes yet. I say yet because Van never quits improving stuff. I have started to notice that as the fronts start working better and better, there seems to be a small need to dial out some rear brake and adjust the bias on the taller rigs. The weight transfer is getting high enough with the better front braking that the rears are starting to lock up.
__________________
I am Savvy
blackmagicbrakes.com
mrblaine is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-01-2007, 09:27 AM   #8
TJeeper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lindon, UT
Posts: 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by lj_wil
For those of us that have disc's all around, is it worth upgrading the same parts on the rear? Is a rear kit available? And if so, would that change any of the above?
The information you are missing is ~90% of the stopping power is done by the front brakes in a hard stop. This has to do with weight transfer. As long as your rear brakes are properly adjusted and not locking up, then they are working fine. Think of it this way, they work like an anchor, keeping the vehicle straight in a hard stop. Lock them up and you have lost the anchor, allowing the vehicle to slide around in a dangerous situation.
__________________
Patrick
'99 TJ
TJeeper is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-01-2007, 10:15 AM   #9
lj_wil
ekorb mi
 
lj_wil's Avatar
2006 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Heyweird
Posts: 1,206
Thanks for the very useful information, I will be jumping on board in a few weeks
__________________
W6FU

Some pics
lj_wil is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-01-2007, 10:17 AM   #10
Deezul
Registered User
2004 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,569
wow that Vanco kit is $$$$$$
__________________
2004 Khaki Rubicon. Jeeperman Custom Brushguard and 54" bumper, Kilby steering skid, Skidrow radiator skid, SRC Rockcrawler rocker guards, UFW Al Engine Skid, OME Shocks, JKS Quicker Discos, AEM Dryflo intake;KC Slimlight 130W Long range lights, ORO LiteDots and LitePlate, Banks Stainless Monster cat-back, Eclipse stereo, BA Speakers, Jeeperman Handles, Cobra CB, interior leds... more to come.

**R.I.P NOW TOTALED** 98TJ Sport, 30x9.5 BFG ATKO's on AR Outlaw II's, K&N FIPK, Borla Catback,
Green jeep club member #139
Deezul is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-01-2007, 11:12 AM   #11
neZZr
Lifted/Locked/Rolled/Sunk
 
neZZr's Avatar
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: AZ eventually...
Posts: 4,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezul
wow that Vanco kit is $$$$$$
Worth every penny IMO. When I put my foot down, my passenger becomes one with the windshield
__________________
My Hummer Hole video
SIRA 4x4 club

I'll be Savvy someday!
neZZr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-01-2007, 11:40 AM   #12
TJeeper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lindon, UT
Posts: 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezul
wow that Vanco kit is $$$$$$
_________
2004 Khaki Rubicon. Jeeperman Custom Brushguard and 54" bumper, Kilby steering skid, Skidrow radiator skid, SRC Rockcrawler rocker guards, OME Shocks, BDS Ultimate Discos, AEM Dryflo Bruteforce intake;KC Slimlight 130W Long range lights, ORO LiteDots and LitePlate, Banks Stainless Monster cat-back, Alpine stereo, BA Speakers, Jeeperman Handles, Cobra CB,... more to come.
Everyone has their priorities. Yours seems to be to have a loud Jeep. Mine is to stop.
__________________
Patrick
'99 TJ
TJeeper is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-01-2007, 01:32 PM   #13
mrblaine
Wizard of Brakes
 
mrblaine's Avatar
1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Quail Valley, California
Posts: 25,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezul
wow that Vanco kit is $$$$$$
You need to go price some of the other bigger brake kits or even rear disc brake conversions.

Once you do that, you'll be able to figure out pretty quickly that Van's prices are about the best value going in that regard.

SSBC's rear disc conversion is over a grand and the only other front conversion I've seen is over 1500.
__________________
I am Savvy
blackmagicbrakes.com
mrblaine is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-01-2007, 01:36 PM   #14
mrblaine
Wizard of Brakes
 
mrblaine's Avatar
1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Quail Valley, California
Posts: 25,933
I just did a quick search for Baer. Their economy kit for an Eclipse which includes calipers, rotors and lines is over a 1000 bucks on sale.
__________________
I am Savvy
blackmagicbrakes.com
mrblaine is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-01-2007, 02:39 PM   #15
jeepster93
Registered User
1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Englewood, CO
Posts: 3,943


I did rear discs, not for hiway as much as for on trail.
I think discs are a sweet trail upgrade.
Sitting on a steep hill where the wieght on the rear brakes, discs are better than drums. Then there is the "waterproof" aspect of discs, where drums need drying out first.

jeepster93 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.