[Jerry Bransford]

Originally Posted by tjthorson

ABS can be a hinderence on the trail, IMHO. Sometimes you just want to lock up those brakes and plow some dirt in front of your tires....

Per the ABS brochure I still have that came with my (then) ABS-equipped '97 TJ, ABS automatically disables at speeds below 5 mph.

[lumpster]

Funny how few people arent willing to shell out the cash for a brake kit that comes with more and cost less than the average brembo or baer setup. If there were more people spending big bucks on jeep brakes one of the "big" brake companies would step in and squash Van's kit with a powder coated 4 piston caliper and cross drilled and slotted rotors. They would say how awesome they are and give 60-0 numbers that would look sweet, and probably never say a word about trail running with them. People would be buying bigger rims with smaller spokes to show off those $2000 brakes, still leaving the rear brakes stock, and looking like an idiot. Van's kit is something that you can brag about to people that know jeeps, no one else will care, and that is the problem for most.

[Jerry Bransford]

Originally Posted by lumpster

Funny how few people arent willing to shell out the cash for a brake kit that comes with more and cost less than the average brembo or baer setup. If there were more people spending big bucks on jeep brakes one of the "big" brake companies would step in and squash Van's kit with a powder coated 4 piston caliper and cross drilled and slotted rotors. They would say how awesome they are and give 60-0 numbers that would look sweet, and probably never say a word about trail running with them. People would be buying bigger rims with smaller spokes to show off those $2000 brakes, still leaving the rear brakes stock, and looking like an idiot. Van's kit is something that you can brag about to people that know jeeps, no one else will care, and that is the problem for most.

Well said.

[deerhunter1911]

so basically, upgrade to the Vanco kit, leave rear brakes stock (but maybe new pads? the green's people somtime mention?) and forget about abs, and just pump em when u have to?

[peeweeXJ]

Anyone know if the Jeep Disk Kit will work with the stock 15" Canyon wheels with 5.5" backspacing? I see the website mentions 4.5 or less, but I want to run this setup before I get my 35's.

[Jeepguy1977]

Originally Posted by deerhunter1911

so basically, upgrade to the Vanco kit, leave rear brakes stock (but maybe new pads? the green's people somtime mention?) and forget about abs, and just pump em when u have to?

Well, the ABS was only really an option and was only available with the D35. The D44 equipped rigs didn't have ABS. I've only found the abs handy in a couple of situations. One was snow, the other was wet bridge grating. I went to Yellow/Centric front combo for now, and as I prep my D44 to go in, it's getting the Green/Centric combo. When I build my new front axle, it'll get a Vanco kit.

[crashedking]

I just purchased the full meal vanco deal 2006 Rubicon. lots of trouble. first after installing exact to two instruction manuals. vanco sent me replacement power steering pump, remote reservoir, master cylinder, hydro boost and all fittings and hoses. First trial run going calmly 40mph start brake press vehicle slows normal, if you want to stop alittle more push a little more pedal clunks then rear brakes lock up and brake light comes on. this is only the beginning of this story. Disparate for help.

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by crashedking

I just purchased the full meal vanco deal 2006 Rubicon. lots of trouble. first after installing exact to two instruction manuals. vanco sent me replacement power steering pump, remote reservoir, master cylinder, hydro boost and all fittings and hoses. First trial run going calmly 40mph start brake press vehicle slows normal, if you want to stop alittle more push a little more pedal clunks then rear brakes lock up and brake light comes on. this is only the beginning of this story. Disparate for help.

Tire size?
Why did you convince Van you needed hydroboost?
Did you do the Vanco Brake kit at the same time?
Who did the install?
Who bled the brakes?
How many miles on the rig?
Who did the plumbing?
Have you spoken with me on the phone? I ask because this sounds just like a tech call I did for a shop that had an issue.

[crashedking]

35s
the first question I think because I needed room for another battery.
no.
Me very savvy.
me 10 different suggested ways.
12.000 miles
me. Excellent.
yes.
I never resolved the issue.
I'm not going to talk smack about you. I'm still trying to to fix the prob.
I'm new to this forum and still don't know how to check messages all the way and insert pics
don't worrie not banging you.
Curtis.

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by crashedking

35s
the first question I think because I needed room for another battery.
no.
Me very savvy.
me 10 different suggested ways.
12.000 miles
me. Excellent.
yes.
I never resolved the issue.
I'm not going to talk smack about you. I'm still trying to to fix the prob.
I'm new to this forum and still don't know how to check messages all the way and insert pics
don't worrie not banging you.
Curtis.

Alright, since you spoke with me and I suggested some things to check and you never got back to me, how did you plan on getting this resolved?

The only way the light on the dash comes on is when the shuttle valve in the combo valve shifts to one end when there is a pressure differential.

1- You have air in the system. Don't know or care how, but it's there. If not, then you have another problem.

2- You have a bad combo valve which I don't really think is the issue, but possible.

3- You have another bad master and if you have done the pressure check with the line pressure gauge like I suggested, we will know the answer to this shortly. Did you do the pressure check with the line pressure gauge?

So, we need to isolate the issue. As I stated previous, start at the master and work down stream. Or start at the calipers and work upstream, but we're just going to keep throwing parts at it until we actually do some diagnostic work and that needs to be done with a pressure gauge.

What are the pressures for the front and rear circuits?

[Unlimited04]

Originally Posted by crashedking

don't worrie not banging you.

[counselor]

Originally Posted by crashedking

35s
the first question I think because I needed room for another battery.
no.
Me very savvy.
me 10 different suggested ways.
12.000 miles
me. Excellent.
yes.
I never resolved the issue.
I'm not going to talk smack about you. I'm still trying to to fix the prob.
I'm new to this forum and still don't know how to check messages all the way and insert pics
don't worrie not banging you.
Curtis.

Curtis, first off get one of these. Motive Power Bleeder.



They are the best and only answer for brake bleeding. Vaccum bleeders bring the suck and manual bleeding sucks worse. Most people never get their brakes fully bled. These things get the job done fast, perfect, by one man, in ten minutes. I used to road race, so I was changing brake fluid constantly.

Second, follow back up with Blaine, I don't know him, but I have read his posts for years. If you are polite and sincere and don't act like a dweeb he will go quite far in using his considerable knowledge to help you.

Everyone raves about Van's parts, so just relax and troubleshoot through this thing knowing that at the end of it all you will have perfect brakes.

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by counselor

Curtis, first off get one of these. Motive Power Bleeder.



They are the best and only answer for brake bleeding. Vaccum bleeders bring the suck and manual bleeding sucks worse. Most people never get their brakes fully bled. These things get the job done fast, perfect, by one man, in ten minutes. I used to road race, so I was changing brake fluid constantly.

Second, follow back up with Blaine, I don't know him, but I have read his posts for years. If you are polite and sincere and don't act like a dweeb he will go quite far in using his considerable knowledge to help you.

Everyone raves about Van's parts, so just relax and troubleshoot through this thing knowing that at the end of it all you will have perfect brakes.

I can walk you through a perfect manual bleed if you listen and follow directions. His issue bleeding was two fold. They used a vacuum bleeder and the old pump and dump method. I explained the fallacies of both and then gave him very specific directions that will work perfectly if he follows them.

I suspect that didn't happen because as I had him repeat the directions back to me, you could tell his thought process really disagreed with what I was having him do.

(folks in general really do believe that if you open the bleed screw and fluid is running out, that air is also getting in)

Don't take this as a jab at the Motive part. I've considered getting one just to evaluate them for Van because truly, the number one issue on 98% of tech on brakes is getting them bled correctly.

[robncar]

Originally Posted by mrblaine

...I can walk you through a perfect manual bleed if you listen and follow directions.

Blaine, would you mind posting those directions? I think I've seen you post them before but I think many folks would appreciate it.

[robncar]

Originally Posted by robncar

Blaine, would you mind posting those directions? I think I've seen you post them before but I think many folks would appreciate it.

I found it in a search...

Originally Posted by mrblaine

Old time mechanics often teach others to "pump" it three times and then push the pedal down. Then they open the bleed screw, let fluid out and then close it. Rinse and repeat.

All that does it aerate the fluid in the master and air in the fluid is not a good thing. Don't believe me? Put on some safety glasses, remove the cap from the master and have someone pump the pedal while you watch all the tiny little bubbles being formed.

The correct way (there is more than one, but not for the inexperienced and that's the position we're gonna operate from) is in the following order without deviation-

You- Open bleed screw, say "down".
Helper- pushes pedal down rapidly and says "down".
You- Snug bleed screw down, say "up".
Helper- Lets pedal up on a 3 count to keep fluid from bypassing the cups in the master. When all the way up, helper says "up".

Do this with a clear hose on the bleed screw going into a collection bottle.
Another myth is to keep the end of the hose under some fluid to stop air from entering the caliper through the bleed screw. Doesn't work. Fluid by it's very nature seeks it's own lowest level according to gravity.

Unless you have a perfect seal and can get the tube perfectly vertical, which you can't, the fluid column will break surface tension at the lowest side at the top of the column.

An air bubble will form right at the bleed screw and get larger as the fluid drains out of the hose.

Try to fill a straw with liquid and hold your finger over the end to keep the liquid suspended. Now tilt the straw slightly and watch what happens.
Since we've now learned about fluid and gravity, let's deal with why air won't go back into the caliper and why you need not worry.

Take the cap off your master. Now, go open any bleed screw on a caliper or wheel cylinder. What happens? That's right, fluid ran out. If fluid is running out, air is not going in because the hydrostatic pressure from the fluid in the master and the lines is pushing it out.

A lot of times you will see folks give a very specific order to bleed the system in starting with some obscure reference to starting at the furthest point away from the master.

Since the master depends on the back bore to aid in building pressure to the front bore when it's full of fluid, would you not want to bleed the brakes fed by the back bore first? I'll give you a hint, the back bore feeds the front brakes.

To circumvent any chance of error and make sure that everything is good, I always do two rounds of bleeding starting at any caliper I happen to be standing next to when I start the bleed process.