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Unread 07-20-2010, 05:40 AM   #46
saint_louligan
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Hmmmm... free lunchbox locker is available and all (most, anyway) of the folks arguing against installing it wheel on the opposite coast in vastly different trail conditions than you described...

IIRC, Jerry's bad experience with a lunchbox locker was a considerably different design that what is being proposed - his was a Detroit Gearless, he was a very early adopter back in 1999 when that design first hit the street, and it was not a good design for the application (it's currently only available for locking-up ATV diffs). I think the locker exploded on him during a u-turn on the street rather than a broken shaft on the trail. I don't think that specific example is a valid point in this debate.

Anyway, the comments about inconveniencing others on the trail are valid, I suppose. I do think that the behavior on the street is such that you will need to learn how to compensate, otherwise you'll be fishtailing quite a bit in wet or slippery conditions.

I ran a lock-right (very similar design) in a 3:07 geared D35c on 33s in similar conditions for about 2 years (98/99), before I replaced the axle with a D44. When I parted-out the D35c, the shafts were not worn/twisted at the splines, which is where the failure will typically occur. I too had simply got a good deal on it used and wheeled it with care in the conditions most likely to cause carnage - it was easy because I was able to go much farther with much less effort. I sold the locker for what I had paid for it except that I also installed it on the buyer's jeep.

My advice is to install it and try it out for a few months. It's not like it's all that difficult to install and/or remove. Be aware of the inconvenience you may cause others if it breaks (or more likely, causes breakage). That's IF not WHEN. Pick-up a set of spare used shafts to carry with you on the trail (I have a set I'll sell you - mentioned above). I never carried spares, wheeled considerably hard in the mud, but took it easy when on technical hills - it was fine, because I could tackle those hills much easier with less effort when locked.

If you lived and wheeled out west, I don't think my advice would be the same, but for mudding and moderate technical trails... I think you'll be OK.

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Unread 07-20-2010, 07:23 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
Maybe, just maybe folks are catching on that having a 35 in the back isn't the kiss of death everyone thinks it is. Especially since talented folks like me help good folks like Superior design products that really stop them from being an axle with issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crateampscal View Post
i was waiting for you to comment. I got to see one of your kits in action on saturday. i was impressed; 36's, hoping while flexed, and tackin rpms. Peoples jaws were dropping when he pulled up, and i commented on his D35. People were calling him crazy, and he smiled and said "c-clip eliminator, 30 spline". im sold, as these guys need to be. IF YOU WANT A LOCKER IN A D35, then buy a c-clip eliminator.

when vendors hype up their product, i take it with a grain of salt. It takes more than just stories to convince me. the guy said he installed it because he had an axle walk out with 33's with no locker. he has the detroit locker and has tried to break your kit on purpose. it looked like he was trying on saturday. he hasnt and recommendeds the kit.

As posted on another thread: "Dana 35 Durability; locked on 33's"
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Unread 07-20-2010, 08:29 PM   #48
cbrookerd
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I forgot to mention, the guy that I swapped with for the aussie also gave me the carrier....now I need to know how to identify the thing....any ideas? I have 3.07s now and am looking to maybe move to 4.56s and am hoping this carrier will work.
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Unread 07-20-2010, 08:52 PM   #49
fish4life
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I had an aussie in the back of the jeep from 2008 until just a couple of weeks ago. I hated it from day one.
The locker only worked well on the highway and on the trail. The former because there are no sharp turns, the latter because the lack of friction allowed the tire to slip at will and seem pretty transparent.

On pavement, the locker was absolutely horrible. You had to change your driving style completely to handle it. Add to this the crappy D35 and the fact you need to "baby" it, it just isn't worth it. Here's some problems i had with it on pavement

1) You could not coast around a corner all the time and have it click-through. If you were in neutral, it was ok. If you were on the gas good, it was ok (the innner tire would just chirp to keep up). If you were coasting and maybe gave it just a bit of gas (not enough to send the inside tire into a slip) the whole jeep would jerk-jerk-jerk through the corner until you either pushed in the clutch, or stepped on it to send the inside tire into a burn.

2) Turning sucked. Every time I had to do a tight turn i could feel it binding as the axle was locked, causing me to do like 5 point turns when i could have pulled it off in a 3 point turn.

3) Shifting gears sucked. Driving down the road, shifting gears WILL cause your jeep to wander a bit while you complete the shift .... the infamous "locker lane change". I hated that, and always wondered if people behind me could notice that or not.

4) Unloading sucked. Driving down the street it would sometimes "unload" so loudly that i would spend the next 20-30 seconds checking my mirrors for signs of my c-clip axleshaft walking out of the housing.

Basically i only enjoyed driving my jeep around on dirt roads and the highway when i had this ridiculous thing in. I bought it as a way to fix busted spider gears, and to get a cheap locker, but it really sucked for driving my jeep on the street. Even on some 4x4 trails i wished i could have turned it off, like on a snow trip we did .... i kept sliding off camber a lot and really made me uncomfortable a few times.

However, i will say this ... the Dana 35 handled it better than i thought. I really didn't give a crap about it since i had a dana 44 sitting and waiting anyways. Numerous times did the jerking (caused from giving it throttle while going around a turn) annoy me to a point where i just floored it lighting up the inside tire, it never complained. I then did some yard work and hauled around a 1,200lb trailer and did quite a few tight turns on pavement with it and again, never blew up. Even spent $50 on spare axle shafts in case i busted one, but thankfully never needed them. I did baby it on the trail, since i'm not an aggressive driver, and since i don't like getting broken down in the middle of nowhere, but in the other cases, it held up fine .... mind you with 31" tires that is!

Overall .... do i regret experimenting with an automatic locker? No, i don't. Would I do it again if i had the choice? No i wouldn't.
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Unread 07-20-2010, 08:53 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrookerd View Post
I forgot to mention, the guy that I swapped with for the aussie also gave me the carrier....now I need to know how to identify the thing....any ideas? I have 3.07s now and am looking to maybe move to 4.56s and am hoping this carrier will work.
Now its going to be locked on 4.56's? It works for some people sure, but I wouldn't want to be one of the unlucky ones. Hell, my buddy has been running 33's locked on a stock 35 for a long time. Same setup ran the Rubicon even... But I would never do it

You always hear those stories from people about how all 700 members of their club with locked D35's have run 32 trails a year for 7 years straight without one break. But you hear more about how many people have broken their D35's locked or not.
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Unread 07-20-2010, 08:53 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fish4life View Post
I had an aussie in the back of the jeep from 2008 until just a couple of weeks ago. I hated it from day one.
The locker only worked well on the highway and on the trail. The former because there are no sharp turns, the latter because the lack of friction allowed the tire to slip at will and seem pretty transparent.

On pavement, the locker was absolutely horrible. You had to change your driving style completely to handle it. Add to this the crappy D35 and the fact you need to "baby" it, it just isn't worth it. Here's some problems i had with it on pavement

1) You could not coast around a corner all the time and have it click-through. If you were in neutral, it was ok. If you were on the gas good, it was ok (the innner tire would just chirp to keep up). If you were coasting and maybe gave it just a bit of gas (not enough to send the inside tire into a slip) the whole jeep would jerk-jerk-jerk through the corner until you either pushed in the clutch, or stepped on it to send the inside tire into a burn.

2) Turning sucked. Every time I had to do a tight turn i could feel it binding as the axle was locked, causing me to do like 5 point turns when i could have pulled it off in a 3 point turn.

3) Shifting gears sucked. Driving down the road, shifting gears WILL cause your jeep to wander a bit while you complete the shift .... the infamous "locker lane change". I hated that, and always wondered if people behind me could notice that or not.

4) Unloading sucked. Driving down the street it would sometimes "unload" so loudly that i would spend the next 20-30 seconds checking my mirrors for signs of my c-clip axleshaft walking out of the housing.

Basically i only enjoyed driving my jeep around on dirt roads and the highway when i had this ridiculous thing in. I bought it as a way to fix busted spider gears, and to get a cheap locker, but it really sucked for driving my jeep on the street. Even on some 4x4 trails i wished i could have turned it off, like on a snow trip we did .... i kept sliding off camber a lot and really made me uncomfortable a few times.

However, i will say this ... the Dana 35 handled it better than i thought. I really didn't give a crap about it since i had a dana 44 sitting and waiting anyways. Numerous times did the jerking (caused from giving it throttle while going around a turn) annoy me to a point where i just floored it lighting up the inside tire, it never complained. I then did some yard work and hauled around a 1,200lb trailer and did quite a few tight turns on pavement with it and again, never blew up. Even spent $50 on spare axle shafts in case i busted one, but thankfully never needed them. I did baby it on the trail, since i'm not an aggressive driver, and since i don't like getting broken down in the middle of nowhere, but in the other cases, it held up fine .... mind you with 31" tires that is!

Overall .... do i regret experimenting with an automatic locker? No, i don't. Would I do it again if i had the choice? No i wouldn't.



^^^That's why you don't put an auto locker in the rear buddy. You had it coming. You would have been better off aussie locking the front.
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Unread 07-20-2010, 08:55 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineKaos View Post
In 5 years for him, he has never broken an axle shaft, nor a ring and pinion. He pushes it hard. He doesn't go easy on the skinny pedal. Is he the exception to the rule? Possibly. But I haven't had a problem either...most of the people in our club (about 500 strong that have Jeeps)- run D35s.. I have yet to see a broken D35 axle from a 33" tire that was locked. I saw it happen only once, and that was running 39s, with a welded rear.
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Unread 07-20-2010, 09:12 PM   #53
fish4life
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Originally Posted by Zach06 View Post
^^^That's why you don't put an auto locker in the rear buddy. You had it coming. You would have been better off aussie locking the front.
i didn't need to aussie lock the front, the front was fine. The rear only got it because it broke and needed fixing.

And there's no such thing as "you don't put" .... you put whatever you want, wherever you want. I'm not here starting a whiner thread, i'm simply telling him my experience and what to expect.

wonder what you have to say for the thousands that weld their rear ends up fully lol .....
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Unread 07-20-2010, 09:14 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by fish4life View Post
i didn't need to aussie lock the front, the front was fine. The rear only got it because it broke and needed fixing.

And there's no such thing as "you don't put" .... you put whatever you want, wherever you want. I'm not here starting a whiner thread, i'm simply telling him my experience and what to expect.

wonder what you have to say for the thousands that weld their rear ends up fully lol .....
I have nothing to say about those guys that weld their rear ends because they know that they are ditching on road performance for offroad performance. For a DD locking the rear with an auto locker isn't the best option.
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Unread 07-20-2010, 09:20 PM   #55
fish4life
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Originally Posted by Zach06 View Post
For a DD locking the rear with an auto locker isn't the best option.
I don't agree with that. If you drive a long wheelbase vehicle, with an automatic transmission (like a suburban or something) the effects probably won't be too bad.

however, short wheelbase, and manual transmission is a no go.
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Unread 07-21-2010, 04:49 AM   #56
cbrookerd
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I am now more hesitant about the whole idea because I'm worried about the onroad performance. I have the 4.0L with an auto tranny....how does the aussie locker behave in this scenario??
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Unread 07-21-2010, 05:48 AM   #57
saint_louligan
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I didn't have an auto tranny for reference, but I guarantee that you will notice some on-road performance differences. Some bemoan them and others think it's minor (both examples of folks each way have commented here). The true significance of the differences are very much up to the individual driver, their driving style, and their ability to modify their driving style to minimize the effects of the locker. You really should just try it out yourself.

Installation takes less than an hour, so I'd recommend installing it and driving for a month or so and see if you can live with the differences. If you can't, then remove it. It will only cost you a few hours of your time, plus some gear oil and RTV. The worst thing that can happen (particularly since it's summer) is that you have fresh gear oil in your diff after you remove it.

On a D35c, you don't have to remove the carrier from the diff, so just remove the diff cover & clean-off any remaining RTV from the diff housing (after lifting the rear-end & safely blocking things - your wheels can stay on, but they need to be off the ground). Remove the retaining bolt from the crosspin (12-point 1/4" wrench is needed), slide the cross-pin out, rotate the wheel so you can get the spider gears out (they ride on the cross-pin), then push each axle inward slightly to remove the c-clips from the axle shafts, and then remove the side gears from the axle shafts. Replace those gears with the locker per the instructions. Apply fresh RTV to the diff housing, wait 10-15 min for the RTV to set-up slightly (use this time to clean any old RTV off the cover), then install the clean cover. Tighten the bolts in a star pattern, fill with diff lube, and go for a test drive. My 10 y/o daughter could install one (seriously - jacking and blocking the vehicle is the hardest part).
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Unread 07-21-2010, 07:41 AM   #58
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Best advice you can get on a stock Dana 35 no matter if its 33-35 inch tires or locking it. half the people say it will work and half the people say it wont, doesnt that seem like to much of a crap shoot to you? ask the same question on a dana 44 or ford 8.8. you will get 99 percent yes's and do its. you make the choice what you want to do.
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How about this, if you had the Jeep Spirit, you wouldn't abuse the rest of us trying to enjoy a nice day out wheeling by bringing your brokeass broken down junkyard crap out to play where it can't handle it?
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Unread 07-21-2010, 08:49 AM   #59
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The support the dana35/S35 gets on this site is rediculas (very comical actually). There is no aspect of a dana 35 that makes it worth the time, money, or effort to build or upgrade it.
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Unread 07-21-2010, 09:20 AM   #60
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The support the dana35/S35 gets on this site is rediculas (very comical actually). There is no aspect of a dana 35 that makes it worth the time, money, or effort to build or upgrade it.


said by the man with a leaf spring TJ
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