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Unread 01-21-2013, 05:57 PM   #1
shatteredsoul
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1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
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98 TJ bad ignition switch but pop clutch?

If I had any hair I would pull it out at this point heres my issue with my Jeep that has a 5 sp with 4.0.

Left for work at 5am well below freezing and she started right up, went to leave work and she wouldnt start. Had co-worker try to jump it off with no luck, after checking all the fuses I tried to let it roll and pop the clutch and she fired right up. As of right now theres no click and nothing from the starter at all but all lights and cluster are working and as bright as normal.

I drove strait to advanced and had the battery and alt. tested, machine showed bad battery so I had them put one in, still wouldnt start. I rolled through the parking lot and popped the clutch she fired right up so it seemed like bad starter. I bought a new one came home and put it in, still no start. I have swapped the starter relay with another one behind glove box with the same part # and still no start. I put a 20a fuse in slot #20 to bypass the NSS as well as unplugged it and jumped it with a paper clip and still no start.

So at this point and in the last year I have replaced the following....

Battery
Starter
Crank position sensor
Coil
Dist. cap
rotor
Plugs and wires
Complete fuel pump with sender etc.

It has never given me a problem until now and Im out of ideas, the other thing I havent checked is the ignition switch but would it still let me pop the clutch and start it? Could the neutral safety switch still keep it from starting even after adding the fuse in #20? Also the battery cables and ground wires all look fine and it does have a complete trail jammer kit from Edge the PO installed.

I really cant afford to miss any work because of this so Im all ears folks and thanks for any and all help.

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Unread 01-21-2013, 07:45 PM   #2
0IIIIIII0
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When you turn the key from "Off" to "On" (not all the way to start) do all the electronics turn on?

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Unread 01-21-2013, 08:13 PM   #3
shatteredsoul
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Yes, everything operates like it should including all the gauges on the dash, I also turned on the headlights while trying to start it to see if they would dim and they didnt.

Looks like Ill be burning a vacation day from work and tearing into the ignition switch to check the actuator pin. The most ironic part is if its the actuator pin I will end up ordering through work which is at Dorman.
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Unread 01-21-2013, 08:23 PM   #4
Easykill22
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That sounds exactly what happened to me. I replaced the battery, starter, and the starter relay but it ended up being that pin. I had it fixed in 5 minutes after I got the part.

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Unread 01-21-2013, 08:24 PM   #5
0IIIIIII0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shatteredsoul
Yes, everything operates like it should including all the gauges on the dash, I also turned on the headlights while trying to start it to see if they would dim and they didnt.

Looks like Ill be burning a vacation day from work and tearing into the ignition switch to check the actuator pin. The most ironic part is if its the actuator pin I will end up ordering through work which is at Dorman.
I would pull the ignition switch. It's easy and in the process you'll be able to see the ignition pin.

Your situation does'nt sound like a broken pin though, when mine broke, the key just spun in the cylinder. My money's on a bad switch.

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Unread 01-21-2013, 08:34 PM   #6
Rubi4MyMrs
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Here are a couple links that might help you find the problem. The switch is probably OK but the key won’t turn the switch if this pin (between the key cylinder & the switch) breaks, a common problem. If you take it apart you can turn the switch with a screwdriver to see it it starts (& see if the pin is cracked or broken). That will get you the answer.


http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/ig...epair-1378503/

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/je...-good-1289966/
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Unread 01-21-2013, 09:48 PM   #7
reisom
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I had EXACT same problem on mine a couple months ago. I went thru everything trying to track it down. It ended up being a bad connection on the bottom of the Power Dist Center. So.....before you tear everything apart and pull your hair out, loosen up your PDC to access the wires coming into it. Make sure the wires going into the bottom of the relay slot for the starter all have good solid connection. Wiggle them a little bit and have someone try starting it up while doing so. Next thing is to pull the starter relay and make sure the metal tabs that make the connection to the relay are nice and clean and tight. Take a small flat screwdiver and push them back closer together if needed. Also get small strip of sandpaper and put on end of screwdriver to stick down in and clean the metal connectors if it might be dirty or corroded. This is all i had to do to mine to fix problem. Cheap easy fix, but a nightmare to pinpoint exact cause of problem. Mine sat for about a month cause i couldnt trust it enough to drive. Good luck. If this doesnt work, listen to what RUBI had to say. Hes one who helped me along the way. Hes very informative and helpful.
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Unread 01-22-2013, 06:15 AM   #8
0IIIIIII0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi4MyMrs
Here are a couple links that might help you find the problem. The switch is probably OK but the key won’t turn the switch if this pin (between the key cylinder & the switch) breaks, a common problem. If you take it apart you can turn the switch with a screwdriver to see it it starts (& see if the pin is cracked or broken). That will get you the answer.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/ig...epair-1378503/

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/je...-good-1289966/
When my pin broke nothing happened at all. It wouldn't even turn to "on". Just spun around in the hole with no effect.

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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
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Unread 01-22-2013, 09:13 AM   #9
shatteredsoul
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Heres an update, I pulled out the key cylinder and everything looks fine I cant pull the bottom off to check the actuator pin as I dont have the tamper proof bits. I put a screwdriver in and still got nothing when I turned it. I pulled the green connector on the switch to test for cont. as my FSM states and have none there, I guess this points to a bad switch? Also I placed a jumper in #30 and #87 where the starter relay goes and she fired right up, again Im guessing this points back to a bad switch? Thanks for the help thus far guys Im getting close to having her start and back on the road.
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Unread 01-22-2013, 11:24 AM   #10
0IIIIIII0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shatteredsoul
Heres an update, I pulled out the key cylinder and everything looks fine I cant pull the bottom off to check the actuator pin as I dont have the tamper proof bits. I put a screwdriver in and still got nothing when I turned it. I pulled the green connector on the switch to test for cont. as my FSM states and have none there, I guess this points to a bad switch? Also I placed a jumper in #30 and #87 where the starter relay goes and she fired right up, again Im guessing this points back to a bad switch? Thanks for the help thus far guys Im getting close to having her start and back on the road.
While you've got the end of the pin exposed, turn the key in the cylinder while holding the other end. You should be able to tell whether the end is snapped off.

IIRC the switch was like $15-20 at advance.

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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
- Samuel Adams
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Unread 01-22-2013, 11:37 AM   #11
Rubi4MyMrs
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I think you can break the security pins out of the bolts with a small punch & get them out with a standard t-10 bit. I'm not sure but I don't think you can get the screwdriver into the slot in the switch until the switch is removed from the lock cylinder housing (containing the pin). I think you are only turning the pin which if broken will not fully turn the switch. You can’t test the switch until you know that it is being fully turned to the start position. It could still be either the pin or the switch.
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Unread 01-22-2013, 11:59 AM   #12
0IIIIIII0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi4MyMrs
I think you can break the security pins out of the bolts with a small punch & get them out with a standard t-10 bit. I'm not sure but I don't think you can get the screwdriver into the slot in the switch until the switch is removed from the lock cylinder housing (containing the pin). I think you are only turning the pin which if broken will not fully turn the switch. You can’t test the switch until you know that it is being fully turned to the start position. It could still be either the pin or the switch.
You can remove the switch without removing the pin from the housing. IIRC, there are two screws that hold the switch itself to the column mount and then you can just pull the switch off.

Before I knew about the actuator problem, I changed my switch because I didn't have the security torx socket either.

Once you get the switch off, it should be easy to tell whether the pin is broken.

FYI sebring's use the same pin... Got mine at pull apart for less than a buck.

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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
- Samuel Adams
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Unread 01-22-2013, 12:29 PM   #13
shatteredsoul
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I ended up starting the jeep by jumping the relay terminals, drove to town and picked up a set of tamper proof torx bits and a ignition switch. As soon as I took off the switch a big pc of the actuator pin fell out.

I have my wife picking up the pin but what sucks is I could have gotten it for half price through work but I would have waited about 5 days and I have no choice at this point but to get her back on the road normally.

Im still going to order another actuator pin as well as a new ignition cylinder through work just to have extras since my cost is so cheap. So chalk up another victim to the shoddy pin design.

Thanks again for all the help and guidance through this, I still love my Jeep even though shes a royal pain in my arse!
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Unread 01-22-2013, 12:46 PM   #14
Rubi4MyMrs
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Glad you got it. The broken piece looked like the others in the links I posted, right? The way they usually break allows it to still turn the switch enough to get it to the on position but not to start. At least you can then jump the starter & are not completely stranded.
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Unread 01-22-2013, 03:49 PM   #15
shatteredsoul
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Correct Rubi, it sheared off like all the others. I have to wonder what they were thinking when they decided to make the piece out of plastic and pot metal, someone should make some out of 1 piece aluminium and make lots of money.
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