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8.8 Swap, the Cliffs-Notes

6K views 144 replies 16 participants last post by  xxdabroxx 
#1 ·
Hopefully this wont open an overly-complicated bucket of worms but can someone give me the Cliffs-Notes version of the 8.8 swap into a TJ? Just the simple basics that I can present to someone who is looking for a strong alternative to their stock setup. Neither myself nor any of my guys have ever messed with an 8.8 at all so this is virgin territory for us. I already tried searching using several variations but didn't come up with anything that really told me anything useful.

One important starting question is what is the best donor vehicle to find an 8.8 so we have an idea of how hard it would be to find one in the first place.

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#3 ·
95-01 Ford Explorers
So something easy to find and cheap to buy in our area :thumbsup:

In what ways do the axles need to be modified? Are we talking changing the lengths of the tubes or just bracket relocations?

Also, what kind of gear ratios do they normally come with or do you normally end up having to do a re-gear?

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#4 ·
Cut off the old brackets and buy new ones. I was very pleased with the Artec Truss System I used on mine and IMO it is the best way to go even with the little extra bit of cash. The truss was indexed for the other brackets and it made installation so much easier. Tube lengths are fine, should look into welding the tubes to the center section, I opted not to since I had the truss anyways. Most from the Explorers come with 3.73 and some will have 4.10 gears. I found one with an LSD carrier and rebuilt the trac lok too. Try searching around some more, there is tons of info on this swap and some really good writeups on here and JeepsUnlimited. Try to find Freeskiers writeup on here, it was for a YJ, but still lots of great info and pictures
 
#5 ·
Nice that they come with the gears we need anyway.

I remember someone having a thread about something to do with the brakes? Was it just the em cable they had to modify? I wish the search function on JF worked better than it does.

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#6 ·
I've never had a problem with the search function on JF, I use it a ton and get tons of good info back.

I ended up using parking brake cables from a 2006 Jeep TJ with rear disc brakes and Blaine's reverse TJ style parking brake cable adapters that allowed me to flip the calipers forward for ease of future outboarding of the shocks. I did a complete rebuild of mine which meant new pads, rotors, calipers, hard lines, gears, bearings (twice...), seals, brackets, axle shafts, sandblasting, fluids, and a diff cover. I probably had about $2,000 into the axle then another $1,000 into rear MC arms, Tatton DS, and the JB SS SYE once it was completely finished. I did the gears myself though so that saved some cash, that I later spent on a second set of bearings after the new ones pitted and deformed due to leftover contaminants in the fluid. Thought I cleaned it well enough the first time, nope...

Lesson learned: "Time saved now is time lost later" -Grandpa
 
#7 ·
Good info. If you hadn't done all the extra stuff, ie. like you was doing it on a tight budget, and not counting the price of the axle itself. What would you say such a swap could be done for by someone on a very tight budget if he needed 3.73's and found one with those gears already in it so no re-gearing, etc?

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#8 ·
Well I was on a tight budget, a senior in highschool budget to be exact. It's tough to say what it could cost. Idk if you could find one with gears in good enough shape to run as is, but if you could probably $200 on the axle, 250 on brakes, 350 on brackets or less if you don't do artec, i would though, then about 300 on a driveshaft and 300 for an SYE and 250 to 500 for control arms. Some claim to be able to use the stock shaft but to do it right I'd do the SYE and DC DS. Maybe around $1500 to $2000 total.

Edit: Actually I don't really know about that. The only things I left off that list was the axle shafts which were like 150 or so off rock auto and the Yukon gears that I scored brand new off Craigslist for $140. Axle swaps aren't cheap and don't it corners, cause they're kind of important...
 
#9 ·
I can get one of those axles probably at no cost from a low mileage Explorer, so that part is easy.

Why are the brakes so much?

He has a SYE and Tom Woods SYE/CV driveshaft already, assuming that one would still work.

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#10 ·
I was assuming you replace pads, calipers, rotors, and parking brake shoes and hardware. That was all about $180 my employee discount at Napa so I just figured around 250. Also gonna have to do new hard lines and soft lines probably. His driveshaft should still work, he will just need to buy the flange adapter for the axle end because the 8.8 does not use a yoke. There's a spicer number floating around here somewhere...
 
#12 ·
Ah OK. Our ranch gets large commercial discounts at all of the local parts stores so probably no more than your $180 if that much at one of our stores. I like NAPA but their prices can sometimes be kinda high comparably. Hopefully could get a low mileage donor and not really need many of those kinds of parts beyond new pads and having the rotors turned.

Will have to try and find the link to the reverse part you referenced earlier for the EM brake cable.

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#11 ·
Here's a few pics of the finished axle with artec brackets. Also made a custom ramp on the bottom to protect the pinion, eliminate any catching on the notorious lip on the bottom of the 8.8 and to prevent the cover from being peeled back when dragging over stuff due to the lack of clearance with an 8.8 on 31"s
 

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#15 ·
I love my 8.8. I did almost the exact build trevlaw did. Artec truss, black magic caliper flip, new gears, ARB locker, I did my skid on the bottom of the 8.8 different. It was fun to build. I don't regret it. But I do wonder about other axle swaps instead of doing the 8.8.
 

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#16 ·
Yeah figuring out how to eliminate the lip was tricky. I thought about welding to the housing, but didn't want to since it is cast steel. Mine is just bent 3/16" plate that I welded to one tubed then bent down across to the other tube. Either way should work well.

Nice axle Sand

Also Sand I began wondering the other day. Are the bottom bumpstop mounts any higher than they are on the D35, which would limit up travel in the rear. I sold my old one so I don't have anything to compare with.
 
#21 ·
It is a cast ferrous alloy. Cast iron is the same as calling all steel, steel.

There are many alloys of steel like 1018, 1541-H, 4130, 4340, 4140, 300M, 8620 etc. and they are not the same steel, they are not interchangeable as far as individual properties go and cast irons are the same way. There are many of them, some are weldable, some are not but they are not interchangeable.

The Vanco knuckles are a cast iron. The OEM knuckles are a cast iron. Vanco are at least 50% stronger with more elongation to resist breakage. But, they are both cast iron.
 
#22 ·
Nice info and nice pics. Need a good thread just on doing the 8.8 swap and make it a sticky or some easy easy way of finding it so all the info is in the same location.

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#24 ·
If it were to be accurate, it would have to list all the negatives about the axle as well.

They are narrower in width by enough to matter.
They are bigger below the axle tubes and are pure rock magnets.
They are a c-clip design and the stock shafts are prone to bending.
The work to swap one in is neither cheap or less than time consuming done correctly.
Disc brakes being on most of them is only a plus if they don't need rebuilding. Given the number of 8.8 backing plates we sell, they aren't as common as they used to be.
If you are re-gearing and putting in a new carrier, all you're really paying for is an empty housing with no brackets and disc brakes of questionable nature.

In that condition, they are worth a couple of hundred so you can spend a couple of grand to make them viable.
 
#27 ·
For all the money and effort that went into those nice looking 8.8's in this thread, you probably could've found a better bolt-in D44 option somewhere; search nationwide for quickest/cheapest results. Or even just gone with a Super35 conversion and called it good (even trussed).
 
#46 ·
D44's are certainly good axles and easier to install than an 8.8. That said, at least out here folks seem to think D44s are made of solid gold. I ended up doing an 8.8, which I picked up at a pick-n-pull ($150), had an Artic truss ($350) welded on by a certified welder in a local club ($100 + beer), and replaced the brakes (~$200). For ~ $800 I had an axle that is both stronger and has a greater parts availability than a D44. The only major downside is, like Blain observed, the thing hangs lower than a D35/D44.

Note I didn't include the cost of gears/rebuild kit as I would have had to do a regear with either axle.
 
#32 ·
I just completed an 8.8 build... and for the most part, there were a lot of good threads in this forum that helped with most questions.

The only thing I ran into was brake line routing and E-Brake Cable related things.

This is how I ended up routing the lines with the ECGS kit, as I didn't have the tools to cut and re-bevel the lines... so I had to make it work with the lengths I had. Most of the line kits are sized to be ran not using the Truss and on the other side or along the tube tops.

I highly recommend the caliber swap (run forward) and you have to get the Black Magic e-brake bracket to do so.

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#36 ·
Another side note on 8.8 is try to pay extra for a strap pinion yoke to replace the flange. If you have the flange, you will find very few drive shaft vendors will honor the drive warranty unless you supply pictures etc. And don't buy the flange adapter (made that mistake) because the place you order the Shaft from has to supply it due to the need to balance the shaft with the flange adapter.

So in the long run, its worth spending a bit for the regular yoke IMO...

But I am running the flange for now, and you have to make sure the ear will not bind at extreme angles.. as it will collide with the flange.. thus the 8.8 special warranty criteria.
 

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#39 ·
For me, I was in need to have something other than the D35 because I want to move up in tire size etc... But I also have a tight budget. The cheapest D44 I could find at the time I wanted an axle was over $2,200 IIRC... A ready to go 8.8 From ECGS was around $1,400 I think?

But I decided to build and looked around at several salvage yards and picked up a donor for less than 200 bucks with Factor LSD etc.. and calibers where in great condition. I was re-gearing, so gearing didn't matter to me.

I ended up spending $1,200 bucks for an 8.8 built the way I wanted it built. And from all the research I did at the time.. with the few "not so good" things it may have... compared to spending $1,200 bucks on the D35..... for the money.. the 8.8 build just made a hell of a lot more sense for me personally.

But in terms of strength compared to D44:

(Numbers from January edition of Fourwheeler, page 60.)
Dana 35 rear axle COT: 870 MOT: 3480
Dana 44 rear axle COT: 1100 MOT: 4460
Ford 8.8 28spline COT: 1250 MOT: 4600
Ford 8.8 31spline COT: 1360 MOT: 5100
Dana60 semifloat COT: 1500 MOT: 5500]

Reference source: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f210/are-you-considering-the-popular-ford-8-8-swap-92569.html
 
#40 ·
Exactly, for everything I did to mine it cost about the same as an ECGS axle with the same features. It's built right the first time, plenty strong for my needs. I could've done what my dad did and buy a D44 and HP30 from ECGS ready to bolt in, but the difference is I know my axle inside and out and how it works, and he onlyhe knows how to bolt one in....
 
#45 ·
yeah.. its case by case. You can use XJ cables and a bunch of other options.. and in some cases you might have to do what I was talking about...

here is a picture of the "might" need trimming area

In my case, I needed to round out the edges of the cable end in order for it to seat further into the "cap" in order to get the pin thru.

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#49 ·
Correction... I actually did the math and it was interesting...

So here is the base "Factory" values

The axle shaft strength tested by Warn Ind:
F8.8= 6,500 (lb. ft.)
D44= 4,600-5,000 (lb. ft.)
D35C= 4,000-4,300 (lb. ft.)

Chromoly 27 spline shafts for D35 report 35% stronger and I am going to assume that means it can handle 35% more torque.. so picking something in the middle of the torque range for the D35.

(.35 * 4200) + 4200 = 5670

That's stronger than factory D44 but still 830 (lb. ft.) weaker than the factory 8.8 shafts

Interesting... unless I am looking at that completely wrong?
 
#50 ·
You probably are. But you're also looking at 27 spline shafts. It's never a bad idea, of course, if you have a D35 and don't have the funds to do something better. It's a quick and inexpensive way to get some insurance. But you should really be looking at the 30-spline S35, which jumps up the strength massively. I wheeled mine pretty hard locked with 35's, and it never had a problem. I trussed it as well just for extra insurance, by the way, because while not common, some say they've seen the housing bend before.

Kept up with a buggy on 40's up Billings Canyon outside of Grand Junction, CO, except for a couple obstacles I had to winch over because I simply didn't have the wheelbase and tire size to get on my own. Never had any problems with the rear axle, and it never did hang me up. Some would say I was silly for making the TurdyFive a much better axle instead of swapping it, but honestly it worked fantastically well for my application. If I knew then what I know now I would've skipped all of it and gone straight to a 14bff but that's a whole different deal :)



And Trevlaw, you don't get to say things like "My factory brake cables worked without modification." You didn't use your factory cables at all. So we can stop there. Instead you had to buy new and different ones. And you had to make modifications to those cables. And you mounted them using specialty aftermarket brackets. Nothing about them is your factory cables, and even then they required modifications.
 
#53 ·
You probably are. But you're also looking at 27 spline shafts. It's never a bad idea, of course, if you have a D35 and don't have the funds to do something better. It's a quick and inexpensive way to get some insurance. But you should really be looking at the 30-spline S35, which jumps up the strength massively. I wheeled mine pretty hard locked with 35's, and it never had a problem. I trussed it as well just for extra insurance, by the way, because while not common, some say they've seen the housing bend before.

Kept up with a buggy on 40's up Billings Canyon outside of Grand Junction, CO, except for a couple obstacles I had to winch over because I simply didn't have the wheelbase and tire size to get on my own. Never had any problems with the rear axle, and it never did hang me up. Some would say I was silly for making the TurdyFive a much better axle instead of swapping it, but honestly it worked fantastically well for my application. If I knew then what I know now I would've skipped all of it and gone straight to a 14bff but that's a whole different deal




And Trevlaw, you don't get to say things like "My factory the brake cables worked without modification." You didn't use your factory cables at all. So we can stop there. But you bought new and different ones. And you modified those cables. And you mounted them using specialty aftermarket brackets. Nothing about them is your factory cables, and even then they required modifications.
Well sorry for saying factory cables instead of OEM ones. Even if I don't flip the calipers forward they would have worked with the 8.8, eliminating the brackets. I'm tired of trying to argue why my 8.8 swap is just as viable as a Dana 44. I know I built it right and that it will work very well for me since I addressed some of its weaknesses. If you need to nitpick over parking brake cables or the fact that it's 5/8" narrower on each side go ahead. Sorry for clogging your thread with arguments SouthernGypsy. If you have more questions about the 8.8 swap just PM me. I don't need to be told what I can and can not say because I know what I'm doing and I know what I've built. I didn't pay anyone to do anything for me with it and learned and did it all on my own. If 5 minutes of grinding on parking brake cables is too much for you, go ahead and wait until a D44 pops up on CL that isn't over priced so you don't have to deal with it. I'll be working with my specialty aftermarket brackets and completely different parking brake cables while I drive the piss out of my badass 8.8
 
#52 ·
What would have to be done to make it trail worthy, exactly?

As far as I know any D44 out of any year TJ (and all LJ's had D44 rears) will bolt up under any other stock TJ. Of course Rubicons have D44's, but that's a little different (1330 yoke and an air actuated locker) and tends to be rare and command unreasonably high asking prices. I don't know of any other non TJ/LJ vehicle that bolts up to a TJ without medication.
 
#64 ·
[ SouthernGypsy ]

One small, but painful discovery I had was related to the E-Brake tension adjuster. After fighting, trying to use the proper adjuster tool to slowly turn the adjuster bracket thru the port hole on the Dust Shield... I found by accident that the $7.00 8.8 e-brake parts kit from Oreilly's could have save me an hour and spared the neighbors from vial language.

I had scuffed and jammed up the tension adjuster that came in the brake parts kit I ordered from ECGS so bad, I had to run down to the local parts store to pick up a new adjuster.. Well, the issue was, the sprocket was so small and narrow and the angle I had to push the adjuster lever/tool would not get a decent bite.

The Oreilly's version has a huge sprocket and much wider.. and worked great.. got e-brake shoes snug in less than a minute and was done.. and the Oreilly's kit was half the cost of the ECGS kit.
 

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#72 ·
Oh lord. Stock width, stock wheelbase, trying to run 40's on an 8.8 (and what in the front?) is a recipe for... You know what? Go for it, I'll watch your build thread >:)

EDIT: No, for real. Abandon all hope ye who seek to enter here. You're wildly better off selling that 8.8 to someone who wants it and going with real axles front and rear, custom suspension, and a massive stretch, especially rear. Like back half it and go.
 
#76 ·
I want my 8.8 for 35s with short arm suspension. That has been my plan for some time in which I finally had the opportunity to work towards.

I doubt I will ever get into the comp cut, stretch, long arm 40s etc... but I have been thinking up to this point that the 8.8 was only viable to have as that better than D35, 35 inch tire build... I am finding out, however, that is not exactly the case...

I do however have an interest in the 88 kit to increase/improve tire to inner fender clearance with 12.5 35s... the interesting thing is though.. if I do the 88 kit, and so happen to ever want to stage up to long arm/stretch and 37s etc.. having the 8.8 with the 88 kit appears to support that transition a little further along vs keeping my D35.. until a "Real" axle as you say can be acquired... Unless I am reading and watching things in a totally different reality... the 8.8 route gets you thru a lot more "Stages" if you will.. than keeping the D35? In fact, the factory recommended max tire for stock 8.8 is 37"... so why it would be crazy to think an 8.8 with 88 kit would not support 37 or perhaps 39/40... I am at a lost?

I can find within this forum a lot of 8.8 build with 37 and larger tires... but none with a D35 in the time I just spent looking.

This one is 37" and 8.8 rear...

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/how-will-my-jeep-look-xx-tires-x-x-lift-109455/index219.html
 
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