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View Poll Results: What do you think?
Like it. 437 42.14%
Awesome wish mine had that. 444 42.82%
You just ruined a perfectly good jeep 69 6.65%
Why would you replace a 2.5 with a 5.0. 2.5 are the best 87 8.39%
Voters: 1037. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 11-09-2008, 05:51 AM   #91
muskyslayr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lumpster View Post
and your jeep doesnt look cobble up and ziptied together

Tell ya what, if you can't contribute to this thread other than nitpicking, why don't you just zip it!

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Unread 11-09-2008, 07:14 AM   #92
lumpster
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you mean ziptie it? calm down there bucko
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Unread 11-09-2008, 07:15 AM   #93
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btw i just told the originator of the post that he might want to clean up the wiring, because diagnosing a problem later would be hard with butt-connectors for pcm wires and stuff.
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Unread 11-09-2008, 09:29 AM   #94
ET48
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Here is my swap.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/ford-5-0-1978-jeep-cj-7-a-578581/

I swaped a Ford 302 from a 1988 Cougar into my 1978 CJ-7. I bought the RJM harness and recommend that to anyone!!!!!! If you have any trouble or questions about hooking up anything, you can call them and they are awesome. Definately the way to go. My pics are on the swap thread if you want to take a look.
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1998 TJ SAHARA, 4.0L, 5 speed, 4.11 Gears, D30 (Aussie Locked), Ford 8.8, 4.5" Custom LA, XRC8, AA SYE, TW DS, ZJ tie-rod, Full-Traction front adj. track bar, 35" KM1s.
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Unread 11-09-2008, 10:26 AM   #95
navman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 472cid View Post
Just the chevy disc as the input shaft of the tranny is a chevy size 1 1/16" where ford is 1 1/8". you still use the ford pressure plate throwout beraing just a chevy disc in the center to go on the input shaft
Ahh I see, I'm using an np435 ford tranny so the issue never arose. Thanks for the reply
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Unread 11-09-2008, 10:52 AM   #96
Moses2564
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What's the HP and Torque rating for the 5.0? I'm looking to upgrade the 4.0, but if the gain isn't significant, I may just stick with the 350sb.
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Unread 11-09-2008, 11:16 AM   #97
navman
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most late 80's early 90's ho's are rated 215-225 hp and 285-300 lbs tq. The motor is significantly more compact than a sbc350 and lighter than a jeep 4.0 by a bunch. The efi harness is also much easier to deal with than an efi chev.
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Unread 11-09-2008, 11:48 AM   #98
472cid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navman View Post
most late 80's early 90's ho's are rated 215-225 hp and 285-300 lbs tq. The motor is significantly more compact than a sbc350 and lighter than a jeep 4.0 by a bunch. The efi harness is also much easier to deal with than an efi chev.
ANd 302parts are just as cheap as small block chevy and performance parts can be had on the cheap(thanks mustang guys) on average when i use the 92-93 mustang harness which is the same as the first ford racing harness they offered it takes about 25-30 minutes to install.
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Unread 11-11-2008, 01:15 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navman View Post
most late 80's early 90's ho's are rated 215-225 hp and 285-300 lbs tq. The motor is significantly more compact than a sbc350 and lighter than a jeep 4.0 by a bunch. The efi harness is also much easier to deal with than an efi chev.
Honestly... There isn't a SBC factory fuel injection we can use.

A) carb'd. SBC 350 ( old school ) we all know how great that is, if your in love with gas smell, bad fuel mileage, poor reliability, and year round drivability changes. And that's not even getting into its off-road draw-backs.
B) The early-mid 90s TBI. Basiclly, its a carb with injectors in it. Besides being 1984 technoloy, its got about the same draw-backs as the carb, and its got these stupid plastic line thingys that always crack and cost a ton to replace ( like $850 for GM parts ).
C) 93-97 LT-1 stuff from a camaro. Its a good motor IMO, but its got some nice draw-backs too. #1 ( and its the biggest reason ), they used what's called an "opti-spark" on the front of the engine. Basiclly, a seemly china designed dizzy on the front of the motor. Even on camaros, its goes out almost consistantly without ever spashing or driving through water, so how long is it going to last in a jeep ? Mean while, the opti-spark is only worth buying from GM, since all the cheap ones on e-bay last about 3 weeks. Guess what... Its about $250 a pop. Besides that, its got slightly more wiring than the classic ford EFI, and its also got "VATS" with is "the chip in the key" crap, which means sending your ECU to be "de-Vats" which equals money, and compilates the "parts avaliability" part.

D) LSx ( aka: LS1, LS2, LS3, LS6, LQ4, LS7, and now LS9 ). Basicly, I'll saw this is when GM did it right. It took them 12 years, but they finally did an EFI that's better than ford's 1986 multiport EFI. Its a fantastic engine IMO. But its a simple matter of cost at this point in the game... I estimated $3000 for an LQ4 ( 6.0L esculade 345hp motor ), and I estimated $800 for my ford swap ( currently prob. somewhere in the $1200 range now). If you can afford it, do this engine !!!

The EFI roller 5.0L swap was a no-brainer to me. I can't imagine why anyone would want a 350 over a 302.

The 302: fits better. Runs cooler naturally. IMO is cheaper, and has more readily avaliable factory upgrade ( GT-40, cobra stuff ), and as meantioned is the only one you can get with a reliable EFI without going the $$$LSx$$$ route.

The jeeps 190hp engine I think is a bit "optimistic", while the 225 is too, its not quiet "AS optimistic". Either way, the 302, even in "HO" form is ALL TORQUE. Its makes nothing but torque !!!!

Update on my project... I'm cleaning/painting/detailing every part of the motor. I got carried away, and took it down to the long block with morning... Hopefully, I'll stop making posts about how GM dropped the ball for 15 years on fuel injection ( other than the buick GN ), and I'll get some sleep so I can post some "pretty shots".
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Unread 11-11-2008, 02:35 AM   #100
472cid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourskittle View Post
Honestly... There isn't a SBC factory fuel injection we can use.

A) carb'd. SBC 350 ( old school ) we all know how great that is, if your in love with gas smell, bad fuel mileage, poor reliability, and year round drivability changes. And that's not even getting into its off-road draw-backs.
B) The early-mid 90s TBI. Basiclly, its a carb with injectors in it. Besides being 1984 technoloy, its got about the same draw-backs as the carb, and its got these stupid plastic line thingys that always crack and cost a ton to replace ( like $850 for GM parts ).
C) 93-97 LT-1 stuff from a camaro. Its a good motor IMO, but its got some nice draw-backs too. #1 ( and its the biggest reason ), they used what's called an "opti-spark" on the front of the engine. Basiclly, a seemly china designed dizzy on the front of the motor. Even on camaros, its goes out almost consistantly without ever spashing or driving through water, so how long is it going to last in a jeep ? Mean while, the opti-spark is only worth buying from GM, since all the cheap ones on e-bay last about 3 weeks. Guess what... Its about $250 a pop. Besides that, its got slightly more wiring than the classic ford EFI, and its also got "VATS" with is "the chip in the key" crap, which means sending your ECU to be "de-Vats" which equals money, and compilates the "parts avaliability" part.

D) LSx ( aka: LS1, LS2, LS3, LS6, LQ4, LS7, and now LS9 ). Basicly, I'll saw this is when GM did it right. It took them 12 years, but they finally did an EFI that's better than ford's 1986 multiport EFI. Its a fantastic engine IMO. But its a simple matter of cost at this point in the game... I estimated $3000 for an LQ4 ( 6.0L esculade 345hp motor ), and I estimated $800 for my ford swap ( currently prob. somewhere in the $1200 range now). If you can afford it, do this engine !!!

The EFI roller 5.0L swap was a no-brainer to me. I can't imagine why anyone would want a 350 over a 302.

The 302: fits better. Runs cooler naturally. IMO is cheaper, and has more readily avaliable factory upgrade ( GT-40, cobra stuff ), and as meantioned is the only one you can get with a reliable EFI without going the $$$LSx$$$ route.

The jeeps 190hp engine I think is a bit "optimistic", while the 225 is too, its not quiet "AS optimistic". Either way, the 302, even in "HO" form is ALL TORQUE. Its makes nothing but torque !!!!

Update on my project... I'm cleaning/painting/detailing every part of the motor. I got carried away, and took it down to the long block with morning... Hopefully, I'll stop making posts about how GM dropped the ball for 15 years on fuel injection ( other than the buick GN ), and I'll get some sleep so I can post some "pretty shots".
You missed gms better and easy to swap injection. tuned port injection and 86 cars will bolt right on any chevy cylinder heads. wiring harness are not bad to modify and really easy over all to set up. my buddies are all not that bright as they are chevy guys so have done many of these are although not as easy as the 5.0 mustang motor they are not bad. In a jeep i would still prefer the ford motor as things fit and line up better and no special radiator or nothing either. the tpi chevy motors or tbi rule out running a stick in the factory location as firewall distrubtor clearence will be a problem
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Unread 11-11-2008, 12:36 PM   #101
Moses2564
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So the 302 will bolt straight up to a factory Jeep transmission, including the NV3550? I'm interested in doing this swap sometime in the future.

I would assume that the motor mounts need to be changed, and have you had any problems with the increased HP and torque effecting your stock axles? If I can get away with just adding chromolly shafts to the D30, being that I already have a D44 in the back, I think it would make everything a lot easier.
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Unread 11-11-2008, 02:19 PM   #102
sourskittle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moses2564 View Post
So the 302 will bolt straight up to a factory Jeep transmission, including the NV3550? I'm interested in doing this swap sometime in the future.

I would assume that the motor mounts need to be changed, and have you had any problems with the increased HP and torque effecting your stock axles? If I can get away with just adding chromolly shafts to the D30, being that I already have a D44 in the back, I think it would make everything a lot easier.
You have to buy an adaptor from advanced adaptors for $250-ish, but it includes the plate, TO bearing, poilt bushing, and aliment tool. Just add a late 80s-early 90s ford F-series bell housing and presure plate, and that's it. Motor mounts can be found, but I didn't like any of them, I'm building my own.

And about the TPI... I actully did think about it later, but desided that its such a POS that it wasn't worth editing my post. Racers have known that for years, but a recent episode/build of horsepower TV proved them right. They took a TPI camaro and bolted about everything possible to it ( from electric water pump, to header back exhuast, to upgraded TPI intake, to ECU tuning ) and it made less than 200whp. I think they finally swapped in a fresh motor, went with an aftermarket injection, and heads and made..... 230whp !!!!

I reallize that jeeps aren't about horsepower, but I think I'd actully perfer the 4.0L jeep I6 over the TPI GM engines. I think it defeats the purpose of swapping in a V8. Its got all the hassles of the EFI ford, but its harder to fit, and makes a good 50 less WHP stock vs stock.

In my entire life I've seen one fast "Joe dirt" camaro. It was a fully built 383 with TPI, a T56 from a newer camaro, and a 225shot in a gutted car. It ran 10.8. Other than that, the only fast 83-92 camaros you'll see have completely different engines/drivelines or a carb.

I think I'd actully take a carb over the TPI engines, and that's coming from a guy that built an electric riding mower b/c he was sick of dealing with a carb.


The LT-1 was a good motor, it made way more power stock vs stock than a 5.0 H.O., don't think I'm just haten on chevys... Its just that the EFI 302 is about the only thing Ford ever did right, and I think they should get credit
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Unread 11-12-2008, 01:41 AM   #103
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I couldn't resist, I added up what I've spent so far...

Motor: $200 ( 70K 94' Mustang GT from an auto car that ran and had good A/C )
Adaptor/clutch: $230
Harness/ECU/modification: $230
Bell housing/slave/presure plate from a 80's 4.9L I6: $70
FLywheel, brand new: $60
shorty truck headers: $160
rear main seal/timing cover set and seal/upper intake manifold gasket, oil pan gasket : $80
O2 sensors direct fit: $90
Paint: $10
oil filter, oil, PVC: $20
New melling oil pump: $30
New 130A alternator, New water pump, New truck starter: $180
Stant 180degree Thermostat and gasket: $15
Used balencer/Damper: $20 egay ( scored a deal )
Valve cover gaskets/ upper manifold+ gasket kit: $30
Dayon serp. belt: $25

$1450.... So far... Ouch... A lot of this could be "by-passed" possibly, but I just couldn't let this motor go in without doing some of those things.

Pics of the motor mocked up after paint, still waiting on some parts
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Last edited by sourskittle; 11-12-2008 at 11:41 AM..
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Unread 11-12-2008, 11:53 AM   #104
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not crazy about the mower but the motor is looking good. i wish i would not have rushed mine and painted everything. Butthen again you have the luxury of knowing everything you need and pretty mush not being on a deadline. It is all looking great and thank crank pulley looks familar. Werll keep up the good work and i am waiting on some pics of it sitting in the jeep. also when you set it in there and go to weld you mounts make sure it is raised higher than mine or you will pry get some vibes
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Unread 11-12-2008, 12:37 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourskittle View Post
$1450.... So far... Ouch... A lot of this could be "by-passed" possibly, but I just couldn't let this motor go in without doing some of those things.
i mean 1500 for a motor swap is pretty damn good, whether or not you sell your stock engine to recoupe some of that dough and do the work yourself.

nice work! looks great cleaned up ... i'm really interested in some video!! wanna hear that thing when its done!!!
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