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Unread 05-25-2011, 04:52 AM   #1321
TJJP77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi4MyMrs View Post
Chris, that is why I'm trying a Crown gear, to try to isolate this problem.
Oh I get it - believe me. I just hate to see you waste your time (and money, even if it's only $25) if the gear on the cam already has damage since it all becomes a moot point - you would end up needing a new cam and a fresh OPDA gear to put it right. Finding out the "root cause" once the cam is damaged is more of an excercise in self-satisfaction than anything else. I don't believe there is anything about the OPDA housing or the cylinder block that can cause the uneven wear on opposite sides of the gear since the block and OPDA housing are effectively static once the OPDA is mounted and bolted down. The friction from a worn/damaged upper bushing and shaft, if it's contributing to gear wear, would theoretically cause wear evenly around the circumference of the gear. The condition that is causing uneven wear is effectively like the gear engagement depth changing as the shaft is rotating - the only things that can cause that would be gear runout or tooth profile (on either the OPDA gear or the cam gear), the hole in the gear blank being off-center or even a slightly warped cam. I'll go a step further and say that a a problem that causes uneven gear wear is putting stress on the upper bushing (and possibly the cause of some or all of the bushing wear issues) as the shaft is "pushed away" from the cam at the bottom during the point where the OPDA gear is on a "high spot" in relation to the cam.

Like I said in the other thread: I know you said you looked at the cam gear and didn't think you saw damage, but the next time you have your OPDA out, take another really good look at at - it's hard to see it at just the precise angle needed to see mild damage through that little hole. Post a photo if you can. Don't take any of this as an insult - I just want to help you avoid time/money wasting activities that aren't helping to solve the problem.

I'll also say that I disagree with some of the opinions in this thread about acceptable gear wear - the cam lobes and gear are hardened surfaces. When broken in properly, the contact surfaces should be smooth and polished looking...and they should maintain that appearance (unless something goes horribly wrong such as oil pump failure, etc) effectively forever. In other words, you should be able to pull a cam out of an engine with 100K on it and the lobes and gear should still have a polished spot where physical contact between the cam lobes and lifters or the OPDA gear and the gear on the cam have been touching - no amount of striated/rough looking wear is ever ok.

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Unread 05-25-2011, 05:36 AM   #1322
odinseye84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heath View Post
You do know what TDT, stands for right?
Turbodiesel truck.... i meant that TDT is a superior diesel oil. When I had a TDI, no other HDEO could touch it in terms of wear rates according to oil analysis.
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Unread 05-25-2011, 06:43 AM   #1323
06RubiconBlue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi4MyMrs View Post
That question has been debated endlessly, it seems. Look at my gear & tell me that this is a lube problem. There are other issues that are probably lube related but that won't cause the uneven wear I have.
No way thats a lube problem. I see no galling. What i do see is uneven wear, if it were a lube problem you would see even wear around the gear. I think it is A) the gear is not running concentric to the shaft. B) Shaft is bent. C) material used is inferior and or not heat treated properly.

I plan to take mine out this weekend. Hopefully i'll find no wear If i do find premature wear, i will tear it apart and check the runout of both the shaft and gear. And put them both on a rockwell test machine to test surface hardness.
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Unread 05-25-2011, 06:48 AM   #1324
06RubiconBlue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJJP77 View Post
Oh I get it - believe me. I just hate to see you waste your time (and money, even if it's only $25) if the gear on the cam already has damage since it all becomes a moot point - you would end up needing a new cam and a fresh OPDA gear to put it right. Finding out the "root cause" once the cam is damaged is more of an excercise in self-satisfaction than anything else. I don't believe there is anything about the OPDA housing or the cylinder block that can cause the uneven wear on opposite sides of the gear since the block and OPDA housing are effectively static once the OPDA is mounted and bolted down. The friction from a worn/damaged upper bushing and shaft, if it's contributing to gear wear, would theoretically cause wear evenly around the circumference of the gear. The condition that is causing uneven wear is effectively like the gear engagement depth changing as the shaft is rotating - the only things that can cause that would be gear runout or tooth profile (on either the OPDA gear or the cam gear), the hole in the gear blank being off-center or even a slightly warped cam. I'll go a step further and say that a a problem that causes uneven gear wear is putting stress on the upper bushing (and possibly the cause of some or all of the bushing wear issues) as the shaft is "pushed away" from the cam at the bottom during the point where the OPDA gear is on a "high spot" in relation to the cam.

Like I said in the other thread: I know you said you looked at the cam gear and didn't think you saw damage, but the next time you have your OPDA out, take another really good look at at - it's hard to see it at just the precise angle needed to see mild damage through that little hole. Post a photo if you can. Don't take any of this as an insult - I just want to help you avoid time/money wasting activities that aren't helping to solve the problem.

I'll also say that I disagree with some of the opinions in this thread about acceptable gear wear - the cam lobes and gear are hardened surfaces. When broken in properly, the contact surfaces should be smooth and polished looking...and they should maintain that appearance (unless something goes horribly wrong such as oil pump failure, etc) effectively forever. In other words, you should be able to pull a cam out of an engine with 100K on it and the lobes and gear should still have a polished spot where physical contact between the cam lobes and lifters or the OPDA gear and the gear on the cam have been touching - no amount of striated/rough looking wear is ever ok.

I agree with everything you just said! I should have read this before posting my last reply. Because we basicly said the same thing.
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Unread 05-25-2011, 10:23 PM   #1325
yellowismellow
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Checking mine tomorrow or friday night.
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Unread 05-26-2011, 07:34 AM   #1326
keithert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moab_cj5 View Post
I am happy for those that didn't buy a new OPDA when the price was so high, but pissed for the rest of us that did. I can't believe I paid $377 in March, an now I could get it for less than HALF that price!!!! And we complain about oil companies gouging us (which they don't by the way), yet this part can change price in a matter of months and go down by half???? I cry "Foul Play"!!!!
I'm upset about this too. I wonder if I should buy 5 of them now that the price is back down and just replace them every 10,000 miles.
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Unread 05-26-2011, 01:49 PM   #1327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odinseye84 View Post
Ill have to totally disagree with you, mobil 1 TDT is superior to diesel oils and is basically the same as mobil 1 delvac. In fact when it first came out, it was delvac re-badged to TDT. IIRC now there are small but negligible differences, TDT is one of the best oils you can buy off the shelves, and I think its perfect for a 4.0L.
Like I said earlier don't want this becoming a oil debate thread. I said it was a good oil, for smaller, more modern engines. It is not for larger heavy truck and equipment engines that need a high detergent, soot control oil. The differences are less detergents. That is why it was perfect for your TDI engine.

This is why it should be fine to use in our 4.0 's.
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Unread 05-26-2011, 03:24 PM   #1328
DstroyrOfWrldz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdhutch View Post
I ordered it a few months back at the same 120ish price. I got an email when it actually came about a month and a half later telling me it was about 260 and that if I still wanted it to email them.

My guess is they just haven't updated the website yet.
Never heard otherwise from them on the price, and UPS tracking says it's on my doorstep.

Unfortunately I totally spaced on ordering the gasket so I can't install it yet but I want to do at least part if not all of the fogmod so that will take me some time anyway.
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Unread 05-26-2011, 03:36 PM   #1329
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I first heard about ZDDP long before I owned my Jeep. Back in the Cadillac world there was an engineer on the owners club that gave all sorts of insight. Some of them being the talk about ZDDP and the reccomended Shell Rotella T This discussion was about the Cadillac 4.9 (not the Northstar) which uses a traditonal type distrubutor - still good information.

In the years since, I do not think GM EOS is still around :-(

Quote:
If something degrades the lubrication in the engine (such as coolant intrusion into the oil...) the distributor gear is usually the first wear point.

Often if the gear on the distributor is damaged it will also damage the gear on the cam requiring a cam replacement.

Since the gear drives the distributor and the oil pump it is a good idea to try and turn the oil pump with a socket on the hex shaft to see if the oil pump is tight for some reason (injesting debris...???) causing higher than normal load on the distributor gear.

When you install a new distributor gear there is a thrust washer that is below the distributor gear that must be there. End play in the distributor is not really an issue as the load pulls the distributor gear downward against the thrust washer lying against the block itself.

Install another new gear on the distributor. Make sure and get the OEM gear that is tin plated (it should have a dull silver look to it). Thoroughtly coat the distributor gear with a good moly fortified grease to help it break in. Fill the engine with fresh oil and substitute a quart of oil with a quart of GM EOS (Engine Oil Supplement) that is available at the GM dealer when you get the new distributor gear. The EOS is heavily fortified with anti-wear additives ( ZDP ) that will help the distributor gear live during break in. Start the engine and let it idle and run at very low RPM for several hours to give it a chance to break in thoroughly with light load on it. Revving the engine puts more load on the distributor gear due to the oil pump load. Idling and low RPM (1000-1500) will help burnish the new gear against the (worn) cam gear giving it the best chance of bunishing the wear points and possibly living. You must have the moly greas on it when installed and you must add the EOS to give it the best chance of living. If it wears out again then the only option is replacing the camshaft...and putting another new gear on the distributor.

Is the engine loosing or using coolant..?? If so, then it may by leaking internally at the intake gasket joint causing the oil to be contaminated leading to the excessive wear at the distributor gear. This is one reason the coolant supplement/sealer is mandatory in the 4.1/4.5/4.9 cooling systems.
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Unread 05-26-2011, 03:56 PM   #1330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DstroyrOfWrldz View Post
Never heard otherwise from them on the price, and UPS tracking says it's on my doorstep.

Unfortunately I totally spaced on ordering the gasket so I can't install it yet but I want to do at least part if not all of the fogmod so that will take me some time anyway.
I'm pretty sure the gasket is the same for many years prior to our '05-0'6s. The engine and distributor housing are basically the same. Try a parts store and get a gasket for an older jeep with the 4.0. Should be fine.
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Unread 05-26-2011, 07:45 PM   #1331
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Do I need a new gasket just to pull and inspect my existing ODPA? I ordered a backup one today from dodge wholesale.
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Unread 05-26-2011, 08:00 PM   #1332
TJJP77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowismellow View Post
Do I need a new gasket just to pull and inspect my existing ODPA? I ordered a backup one today from dodge wholesale.
Depends - usually the original gasket will come apart when you pull your OPDA. When I first pulled mine and a friend's out to look at them, the gaskets both came apart. I applied a little light grease to the replacement gasket and I've since removed it 3 times with no damage to the gasket.
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Unread 05-26-2011, 08:19 PM   #1333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowismellow View Post
Do I need a new gasket just to pull and inspect my existing ODPA? I ordered a backup one today from dodge wholesale.
I've pulled mine several times with the original gasket still in place but I bought a new gasket for an older 4.0 at the local parts store just in case.
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Unread 05-29-2011, 03:33 PM   #1334
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Well, replacing my OPDA with a unit from Dodge Wholesale today after noticing a slight tick, P0016 code, and stumbling upon this thread. After pulling the drive unit I'm more than concerned. Very noticeable wear on the OPDA drive gear and I'm still trying to get a good enough picture to gauge the damage to the gear on the cam. (Apologies in advance for the crap phone shots...of course the SLR battery had to be dead, d'oh!)

OPDA Gear:


Attempt at a cam gear shot:


Any advice suggestions from those with similar wear patterns on their gears? I'm terrified to start it up now. I actually have two new OPDA's, the intentions being replacing the defective unit and getting the other modded.

Talk about devastation! I just got my TJ this past October with 45k miles on it. I absolutely love this Jeep, I really hope that I can get her back in good shape in short order.
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Unread 05-29-2011, 06:04 PM   #1335
flying_bosun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajt976
Well, replacing my OPDA with a unit from Dodge Wholesale today after noticing a slight tick, P0016 code, and stumbling upon this thread. After pulling the drive unit I'm more than concerned. Very noticeable wear on the OPDA drive gear and I'm still trying to get a good enough picture to gauge the damage to the gear on the cam. (Apologies in advance for the crap phone shots...of course the SLR battery had to be dead, d'oh!)

OPDA Gear:

Attempt at a cam gear shot:

Any advice suggestions from those with similar wear patterns on their gears? I'm terrified to start it up now. I actually have two new OPDA's, the intentions being replacing the defective unit and getting the other modded.

Talk about devastation! I just got my TJ this past October with 45k miles on it. I absolutely love this Jeep, I really hope that I can get her back in good shape in short order.
Ahh...yup, you got it, too. If you've got the cash, I'd find a dealer with a good service writer and have them install the new opda and "inspect" the cam gear while they're at it. Then, when they confirm premature wear, etc. you call Chrysler vehicle complaint dept to open a case. Only do this with a service writer who will "go to bat for you," so-to-speak. I got chrysler to offer to reimburse me 75% of the cost of parts and labor for replacing my cam, lifters, and opda. Otherwise, plan on replacing them yourself ASAP. Sorry to hear there's yet another victim.
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