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Unread 03-25-2011, 05:42 PM   #871
willydigger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo92065 View Post
I just bought my 2005 Rubicon two weeks ago, and now I read this thread!
This issue is bothering me. I want to fix this poor design.

I've bought all the stuff to run an oil line from the valve cover to the OPDA. I'm thinking that all I need is just a little oil to run down from the top bearing to the lower bearing on the OPDA.

This is how I plan to do it;
First, drill and tap valve cover (use a bulkhead fitting or weld bung if necessary) as close to the lowest point (where it looks like oil might pool). Then I'm going to connect some clear tubing to it and run the engine. I expect to see some oil in the tube after a short period. I might put the other end of the tube in a jar to see how much oil flows over a given distance or time period.
Next I'll drill and tap the OPDA, right where the factory grease port is. I'll connect the other end of the oil tube to this port. Then after driving for a while, I'll reinspect and hopefully the oil will be making its way back down to the engine. If it looks like that there is too much oil flowing into the OPDA, I can either cut down on the flow through the tube, or I can modify the shaft and/or bearings to let more oil pass by the sleeve bearings. If I'm not getting enough oil through the tube, I can move or modify where I am picking up the oil.

Any thoughts? Problems?
Off the top of my head the first obstacle is the seal location for the upper bushing. Once you put it in the OPDA the only path is up and out. The seal will prevent it from draining in the OPDA. You'll have to modify the seal design. Once the seal is taken care of, I would modify the shaft with a groove to ensure the oil is being carried down otherwise there is no seal to prevent it from leaking out the top.

Unless you're like tkki, and have a machinist buddy and have made this into a full time hobby , the oil method may be overkill.

All that said I wish you luck and hope to see pictures of a finished product.

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Unread 03-26-2011, 02:58 AM   #872
Rubi4MyMrs
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matteo, I agree with willy. I would add that you MAY get the check engine light if you tap into the valve cover. Not sure about that just, consider it. You are in CA & need to think about smog checks. I really don't think you will get much, if any oil from the VC anyway. I haven't seen the inside of the 4.0 but in most engines, the oil pretty much drains back without pooling & if there are any low spots where there might be some pooling, they are below the VC. There is also negative pressure in the crankcase adding to the difficulty of getting any oil to flow. In another thread there was a post about tapping into the oil pressure switch. (fog or willy I think) That would be a better option but you will need to control the flow & also deal with the drain back issue as willy pointed out. Let us know, we are all looking for solutions.
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Unread 03-26-2011, 07:08 AM   #873
Bigbob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo92065 View Post
I want to fix this poor design.

I've bought all the stuff to run an oil line from the valve cover to the OPDA.

Any thoughts? Problems?
I like the way you think.
Yes you would want to experiment to see how much oil would actually run down the tube.
You'd have to groove the shaft or in some way defeat the top seal.

I hope this works for you cause I like it.
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Unread 03-26-2011, 07:25 PM   #874
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I think the FOGMod is the best solution so far. Having said that, I think oil would be better than grease. I think that getting pressurized oil is too complicated. Too many internal mods to the OPDA. A top seal, grooving the shaft, removing the existing seal. Not to mention getting the oil source. My thought is to try the FOGMod with a twist. Instead of installing the grease zerk, install an oil cup. By keeping the top of the cup below the level of the top of the top bushing, I'm hoping a top seal won't be needed. The old grease would have to be flushed as well as possible but if some remained I don’t think it would hurt. The oil in the cup would need to be checked periodically but if the seal under the top bushing holds the oil in I think this would work.

For those not familiar with oil cups check these links. http://images.grainger.com/B329_35/i...1U877_AS01.JPG &
http://images.grainger.com/B329_35/i...1U871_AS01.JPG

They are from Grainger which has discontinued them. They are the best pics I found but others are available at http://www.devcocorp.com/gits.htm

All I need is an OPDA when they become available. Any thoughts? tkki, fog, willy?
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Unread 03-26-2011, 08:17 PM   #875
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Pulled the OPDA today. 2005 LJ 54k mi. 6spd, second owner. Looks like I'm in the same boat, showing signs of wear, not as bad I as expected. But still not happy with whole freakin situation.

Wear marks clearly visible, can feel them with my fingernail.

Close up

Did notice some abrasions on the OPDA, side closest to the engine. Also definite marks where the OPDA engages the oil pump.

Didn't do the Fogmod today. Instead rounded up all the other stuff first.
In and out with OPDA was easy, but a little nervous the first time. Double and triple checked everything coming out and going in.
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Unread 03-26-2011, 08:38 PM   #876
dproctor0715
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Thanks to all who are applying your thoughts, time and skills to resolving this issue. I learned of this issue through this forum at about about 68000 miles. I pulled my OPDA and inspected it.

My findings were the same as many others here. The gear worn as in other pictures, more than I'd like to see, the shaft spins freely, no permanent scoring. I immediately ordered new unit. Now I too am on the waiting list for a new unit since, December 2010.

Some here have mentioned routing oil to the upper and/or lower bushings. On that note, since early February 2011, I've been running an experimental oiler to lubricate my upper bushing with engine oil. It is loosely based on the FOGMod and so far seems to keep the top bushing, at least, well lubricated.

I chose to try oil rather than grease as a lubricant based the fact that it was used on some older point type distributors that required oil lubrication for the top bushing at regular service intervals, and based on my belief that, by design, the lower bushing was meant to be lubricated with engine oil. So I figured what's good for the lower should be good for the upper too. And I wanted to try something different. What do I have to lose?

My oiler consists of a remote (4-6 fl oz. of 1" pipe) oil reservoir, plumbed into the factory grease fitting/reservoir (1/8-npt), which allows oil to gravity feed through a freshly drilled hole (size Q bit) in upper bushing onto the OPDA shaft, above the factory oil seal. The system is unvented and sometimes a small amount of pressure is detected during post operation inspections, when removing the cap.

In my experience, it is correct that, provided the factory oil seal is intact, the oil climbs the OPDA shaft, and bypasses the top of the upper bushing spilling into the OPDA cup before it leaks past the factory seal below the upper bushing. To overcome this, I have completely sealed the OPDA cup against leakage with black RTV around the CPS sensor, over the threaded plugs added to the 2 holes in the bottom of the cup, and between the cap and the top of the cup.

During operation the cup is full of oil, all of the internals are completely submerged in oil (no codes yet) and the tone wheel is spinning in oil. The system loses 1-2 ounces of oil weekly (40miles/day @ 2200 rpm) internally, I think this must push past the factory seal. I can't find any signs of external leakage. I believe the spinning of the tone wheel in the oil may create some backpressure on the oil in the cup and push it past the seal when the engine is spun at higher rpms. I've noticed no drain down operating under 1500 rpm or while engine is not running.

My main concerns are:
(a.) External leaks causing a fire or other dangerous conditions.
(b.) Inernal leaks creating a crankcase overfull condition.
(c.) Excessive system oil loss due to (a.) and/or (b.)

I check for all 3 conditions daily. External leaks are repaired immediately or the system taken out of service until the leak is repaired. I check the oil levels in the system and the crankcase daily. If my crankcase becomes overfull to the point of concern. I can remove excess oil through the dipstick tube or change the oil and/filter and recheck.

I have had no real issues in 3500 miles other than small leaks. And meanwhile my OPDA still spins daily, waiting for its replacement. I have pulled and rechecked once at about 1200 miles use due to tracking down external leaks and found no burning on the shaft.

No leaks for last 1300 miles.

I say try whatever you can think of even if it's different.

I can't post pictures yet due to NOOB status

Last edited by dproctor0715; 03-27-2011 at 08:53 PM.. Reason: link to picture
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Unread 03-26-2011, 11:29 PM   #877
tkki1230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi4MyMrs View Post
I think the FOGMod is the best solution so far. Having said that, I think oil would be better than grease. I think that getting pressurized oil is too complicated. Too many internal mods to the OPDA. A top seal, grooving the shaft, removing the existing seal. Not to mention getting the oil source. My thought is to try the FOGMod with a twist. Instead of installing the grease zerk, install an oil cup. By keeping the top of the cup below the level of the top of the top bushing, I'm hoping a top seal won't be needed. The old grease would have to be flushed as well as possible but if some remained I donít think it would hurt. The oil in the cup would need to be checked periodically but if the seal under the top bushing holds the oil in I think this would work.

For those not familiar with oil cups check these links. http://images.grainger.com/B329_35/i...1U877_AS01.JPG &
http://images.grainger.com/B329_35/i...1U871_AS01.JPG

They are from Grainger which has discontinued them. They are the best pics I found but others are available at http://www.devcocorp.com/gits.htm

All I need is an OPDA when they become available. Any thoughts? tkki, fog, willy?
I think for the units that have upper bushing problems, maybe the oil cup might work. The seal might be an issue though. Regular oil might be too light. What about something like gear oil? If this set up worked, it would be much easier that greasing the unit with a grease gun, that's for sure.

For me, I'll stick with the Fogmod for now, because I don't really have problems with the upper bushing. When I mic'd the upper bushing from my unit @65k miles, there was zero wear, and the shaft only had minor scoring. My problem is the lower bushing, and it seems like no amount of oil is going to prevent excessive wear. Well, on my unit anyway. I didn't take any pics, but I pulled the new shaft, the one that I just hardened and installed, and after only 50 miles or so, there was already signs of scoring in the lower bushing area. There was LOTS of grease and oil in the unit, so I'm thinking that lubrication is not the issue. I'm going to switch and change the bushing material to bronze. That steel bushing is just too unforgiving. I'm machining the bushings tomorrow, and I'll post some pics next week.
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Unread 03-26-2011, 11:37 PM   #878
tkki1230
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Has anyone tried to replace the inner seal?

Does anyone know where to get a replacement?

I cannot figure out a way to salvage the seal while extracting the upper bushing, and I wanted to still have one in there when I installed the new bushing.
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Unread 03-27-2011, 08:52 AM   #879
rottenrobert
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Well thanks to my brother who happens to be a machinist

We pulled my OPDA.

Gear at 44,000 milles


Cam gear


Scorching on the shaft


Drilling for the fogmod in his bridgeport mill.


How we modified the thrust washer for more oil to get in to lower bushing.

Stock


Modified


We actually made the opening a little bigger but my battery died in my phone.
The idea is that more oil will get pushed up thru the oil chanels and coat the shaft better. Although there was oil all the way up to the upper bushing, despite the oil seal. Should help.

Ill pull the shaft and check at next oil change.
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Unread 03-27-2011, 09:03 AM   #880
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Never mind...
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Unread 03-27-2011, 09:14 AM   #881
rottenrobert
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Thanks grogie. I was doing the same when you must have been.
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Unread 03-27-2011, 12:16 PM   #882
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idk about anyone else, but i received my OPDA and installed it on friday. no more laughing monkey and good as new. my dad, however, feels the mod is unessacary due to the fact we got 60,000 miles out of the first opda.
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Unread 03-27-2011, 01:19 PM   #883
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Originally Posted by LJman06 View Post
idk about anyone else, but i received my OPDA and installed it on friday. no more laughing monkey and good as new. my dad, however, feels the mod is unessacary due to the fact we got 60,000 miles out of the first opda.
I guess your dad works for Chrysler?
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Unread 03-27-2011, 01:44 PM   #884
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Originally Posted by LJman06 View Post
idk about anyone else, but i received my OPDA and installed it on friday. no more laughing monkey and good as new. my dad, however, feels the mod is unessacary due to the fact we got 60,000 miles out of the first opda.
Did your new one have a sticker on it ? Just wondering what REV- we are up to.
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Unread 03-27-2011, 01:47 PM   #885
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Originally Posted by Slugger View Post
Did your new one have a sticker on it ? Just wondering what REV- we are up to.
REV-e....same as my old one.
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