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post #4876 of Old 04-12-2014, 05:59 PM
KX6D
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The Dorman unit would be using the same bushing so no improvement there. Your bushing appears to be wearing from some sideloading issues. In other words, the cam is moving sideways inside the block. Maybe your thrust bearings inside are worn....or....you could have one of the blocks that has a misalignment hole for the OPDA. I haven't seen one, but I have heard about it.

The P044 code is an emissions issue so I'm not sure why you pulled the OPDA.

Were you having problems with the OPDA?

Also, if you go the Dorman route, hang on to your sensor out of the factory unit!


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post #4877 of Old 04-12-2014, 08:23 PM
Rubi4MyMrs
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The Dorman may not be the answer we hoped for. Besides some reports here of bad sensors, there are some having bushing issues.

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/do...ml#post9780578

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/20...l#post16731609


The potential problem with the Dorman is that like the OEM units there is no lubrication to the top bushing. They use a bronze bushing rather than the OEM steel ones but without lube I have to wonder if even bronze will last. Time & miles will answer that. There are already a couple reports of bushing failure. They may be only isolated cases, we’ll see.

The stripper guy mod looks sound but as noted above there is a failure of the BOTTOM bushing which also may well be an isolated case. Again we’ll see. It is also possible for defective castings to keep lube from getting to the top of the lower bushing.

Maybe bronze is not suitable for bushings in these units, especially the bottom one that has side loading from the dizzy action with added loading from driving the oil pump. From the photo above I’m not sure that is the case here, depending on how the unit was clocked when installed. The side loading force will be away from the cam center line. The cam moving front or back in the engine (cam walk) won’t affect the side loading on the OPDA shaft. That load is from the force of the 2 gears trying to separate caused by the drag on the OPDA shaft which includes the normal drag from the oil pump. There is a very good article explaining this here:

http://www.classicinlines.com/DizzyGear.asp

The original modification used grease to lube the top bushing on the OEM units, the reason Willy started this thread. Some of us modified that idea to use oil with variations on the so called FOGMod grease setup. With the stripper guy mod & the release of the Dorman unit there have been virtually no postings of grease/oil mods being done. I have followed this issue here & elsewhere since early 2011 & have traced the first use of the grease mods to at least Jan, 2010. I have not seen one reported failure of any OPDAs using either grease or oil to lube the top bushing. I have a little over 8,000 miles on my oil cup mod with no problems to my original unit.

It is worth noting that the OEM has a seal between the top & bottom bushings but it has been reported that the Dorman does not have that seal. If true (I haven’t personally verified that), the oil mod & probably the grease one too should only be done on the OEM units. The seal is needed to contain the oil on the top bushing & probably the grease too. The exception to this is the mod Big Bob used that had constant oil pumped to the top busing which would work on the Dorman but on the OEM only if the seal is removed.
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post #4878 of Old 04-13-2014, 03:21 PM
KX6D
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This is interesting. I have my worn out OEM unit (100K miles), a new OEM unit currently installed in the Jeep, and a brand new Dorman unit, all of which will soon be dissected for installation of the SG Mod. After trying to buy the mod to fix my failed unit and being told it was no longer available, I purchased all remaining parts, drawings, tooling, and property/rights from Stripperguy in order to produce the SG Mod. The first units are in from the machine shop and I'm verifying their fit in both the OEM and Dorman units.

The advantage of the SG Mod is it ELIMINATES the upper bearing issue. If the lower bushing has increased oiling due to simple cross-drilling mods, then using bronze may not be necessary at all. Only time will tell on this and in the mean time the bronze bushing will be sold in the kit. I intend to sell NEW OEM units with the SG Mod installed or have rebuilt units on hand for exchange. All units will be checked for and aligned bored in order to eliminate irregularities in the unit casting.

The dizzy gear effect is very real and complicated with the use of a thicker oil. I use 10W-30 and I wonder if others use a thicker oil.

This is definitely not a done deal in the long line of OPDA issues in the 05-06 Wranglers!

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post #4879 of Old 04-14-2014, 10:48 AM
speed_phreak
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Interesting development... When do you plan on having these OEM units with SG mod and drilled lower bushing mod units available for sale?

Any idea what the price will be?

I actually have an unused SG mod. Is there anyone out there that can install it as well as drill lubrication holes for the lower bushing? If so, how much might that cost me?

Thanks!
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post #4880 of Old 04-14-2014, 12:38 PM
KX6D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speed_phreak View Post
Interesting development... When do you plan on having these OEM units with SG mod and drilled lower bushing mod units available for sale?

Any idea what the price will be?

I actually have an unused SG mod. Is there anyone out there that can install it as well as drill lubrication holes for the lower bushing? If so, how much might that cost me?
I should have the first run checked out by the end of the week. Then its just a matter of picking up new OEM units and installing the mod. If someone wants one now, I'll get on it. Otherwise, I should be ready to go by the end of the month.

Remember, you can get a NEW unit w/ the SG Mod installed; have yours rebuilt or an immediate replacement on an exchange basis, or just buy the kit. I'm still working out the price but shooting for the same cost SG sold them for.

If you want to send your unit to me, I'll install your already purchased mod...or you can always ask Big Bob!

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post #4881 of Old 04-14-2014, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KX6D View Post
I should have the first run checked out by the end of the week. Then its just a matter of picking up new OEM units and installing the mod. If someone wants one now, I'll get on it. Otherwise, I should be ready to go by the end of the month.

Remember, you can get a NEW unit w/ the SG Mod installed; have yours rebuilt or an immediate replacement on an exchange basis, or just buy the kit. I'm still working out the price but shooting for the same cost SG sold them for.

If you want to send your unit to me, I'll install your already purchased mod...or you can always ask Big Bob!
Are you going to be boring out the housing so its strait? Are you doing anything different than Big Bob did? Or will your units be more or less the same as Big Bobs and still have the risk of the lower bushing wallowing out? As mentioned earlier, I had one that Big Bob put together but the lower bushing wallowed out, so now I'm not sure which route to take. I have the Dorman on order, but I don't know if that will be the fix either. But if your boring things strait through and we know the lower bushing issue is solved then we have both issues solved.

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...there's very little that is more permanent than a temporary solution
Quote:
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post #4882 of Old 04-14-2014, 04:23 PM
KX6D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargo View Post
Are you going to be boring out the housing so its strait? Are you doing anything different than Big Bob did? Or will your units be more or less the same as Big Bobs and still have the risk of the lower bushing wallowing out? As mentioned earlier, I had one that Big Bob put together but the lower bushing wallowed out, so now I'm not sure which route to take. I have the Dorman on order, but I don't know if that will be the fix either. But if your boring things strait through and we know the lower bushing issue is solved then we have both issues solved.
Big Bob does excellent work and didn't do anything wrong with your install. If the housing was bad from the factory (some are) then nothing he or anyone else could do could fix that...short of align-boring the assemble AFTER the bushing is installed.

Yes, I plan on align-boring the assemblies I ship out.

But I want to address the lower bushing issue a bit more. If the housing is misaligned, the bushing will have abnormal wear. If the bushing is exposed to severe side loading from the dizzy gear effect, then the bushing will have abnormal wear. I'm not convinced that Oilite bushings are being used incorrectly in these applications and therefore should handle the load satisfactorily. Time will tell.

If the bronze bushing is a bad idea (and I don't think it is), then the Dorman is even more of a problem...

1. They use a bronze bushing at the bottom.

2. They use a bronze bushing at the top and depend on oil getting up there due to the lack of a shaft seal.

3. There are multiple reports that the pick-up sensor is faulty.

I have a new Dorman unit so I can rip it apart and see what they have in there. Then I'll install the SG Mod on it and put it on the shelf for sale. I expect to get some business from all the Dorman buyers in the future! ;-)

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post #4883 of Old 04-14-2014, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KX6D View Post
Big Bob does excellent work and didn't do anything wrong with your install. If the housing was bad from the factory (some are) then nothing he or anyone else could do could fix that...short of align-boring the assemble AFTER the bushing is installed.

Yes, I plan on align-boring the assemblies I ship out.

But I want to address the lower bushing issue a bit more. If the housing is misaligned, the bushing will have abnormal wear. If the bushing is exposed to severe side loading from the dizzy gear effect, then the bushing will have abnormal wear. I'm not convinced that Oilite bushings are being used incorrectly in these applications and therefore should handle the load satisfactorily. Time will tell.

If the bronze bushing is a bad idea (and I don't think it is), then the Dorman is even more of a problem...

1. They use a bronze bushing at the bottom.

2. They use a bronze bushing at the top and depend on oil getting up there due to the lack of a shaft seal.

3. There are multiple reports that the pick-up sensor is faulty.

I have a new Dorman unit so I can rip it apart and see what they have in there. Then I'll install the SG Mod on it and put it on the shelf for sale. I expect to get some business from all the Dorman buyers in the future! ;-)
I'm interested. I did the SG Mod on a brand new OPDA I bought, and that one seemed to have an alignment issue. I'm still using my original, as the gear looked fine when I checked it. Still haven't purchased a Dorman.

Will you be keeping us informed via this thread?

Thanks
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post #4884 of Old 04-15-2014, 09:27 AM
Fargo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KX6D View Post
Big Bob does excellent work and didn't do anything wrong with your install. If the housing was bad from the factory (some are) then nothing he or anyone else could do could fix that...short of align-boring the assemble AFTER the bushing is installed.

Yes, I plan on align-boring the assemblies I ship out.
I was really happy with the work BigBob did. He was great to work with too. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate what he did for me. I'm just trying to decide if I should order another unit from you or use the Dorman I have on order. If you are align-boring the assembly, it sounds like your units should be better. But I though Big Bob did that too. If so I guess their is still that risk.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
...there's very little that is more permanent than a temporary solution
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oman Jeep
Go with quality and cry once. Go cheap and cry often. Take your pick ;)
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post #4885 of Old 04-15-2014, 12:07 PM
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I just had a Dorman installed and I have my old OEM version. Never had the screaming monkeys but I did this as preventative maintenance. My 2006 TJ Rubicon only has around 36K miles. Is it recommended that I could have my OEM unit modified as a replacement in case the I have problems with the Dorman unit? Thank you in advance.

What happened to Big Bob? Just curious.

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post #4886 of Old 04-25-2014, 09:19 PM
Brad4406
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No grease cavity?

I bought one of the made in Taiwan units off Ebay. I drilled a little bit more clockwise on the housing for the grease fitting mod than is shown on page one of this post. I'm already down to the bronze bushing and there does not appear to be a grease cavity; see photo. It has the grease plug on the side just like the original manufacturer one does. Any chance these Taiwan units off Ebay don't have a grease cavity or did I do something wrong?
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post #4887 of Old 04-26-2014, 06:21 AM
Brad4406
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Well, what I thought was a plug appears to be cast housing. I believe the Taiwan units do not have a grease cavity. I'm thinking of drilling below the upper bushing on the housing, in other words about 3/8" below the hole that I drilled earlier, and drilling all the way through the housing into the shaft area to put the grease fitting there so that it will fill the entire cavity and hopefully some grease can work its way into the upper bushing. Any opinions?
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post #4888 of Old 04-26-2014, 11:12 AM
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I believe that's where the Dorman unit is made.

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post #4889 of Old 04-26-2014, 01:23 PM
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I would say to drill through right where you started. That will put the grease in the middle of the top bushing & should spread out nicely on the bushing. No “hoping” it gets up there.

It won’t take much grease since there is no cavity to fill. The recommended method is to start the engine & let it warm up. Then with it idling pump the grease in slowly to let it spread out.
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post #4890 of Old 05-28-2014, 08:38 AM
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Monster thread! I read from time to time but it's been awhile.. I have been lucky with my late '06 Rucicon so far. How long has the Dorman unit been out? Is it proven to be a good fix? I see them on ebay for about $100 now. Wondering if it'd be worth it for the peace of mind. I have read of some guys getting over 100K miles before they had issues.

Has there been any pattern to premature wear being narrowed down to specific period, other than all '05 and '06?
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