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Unread 02-04-2011, 06:46 PM   #436
ChaseB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
Mis ship? Yeah right. Making up words now. Did you get the new OPDA yet?
I could have sworn I got the right stuff...looked at the invoice and it was a FAIL I'm blowing money like I have it lol......and I'm not paying to ship back a $14 tube of grease... no point.

I'm thinking the OPDA will arrive tomorrow.

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Unread 02-04-2011, 07:21 PM   #437
Heath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron746 View Post
I was looking around and found that accel has a new dist that looks like it would replace the opda that is giving all the trouble. It is DFI77242 and is listed as a new addition to their products, its pricey but I'd pay it to get rid of the problem. I'm new to these newer jeeps so I may be out in left field on this, didn't know of all the problems with the newer 4.0 till I bought one.
It looks like it can provide cam and crank signals. I just wonder how you go about syncing it.

Do you have a link from Accel that has some more info on it?
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Unread 02-04-2011, 07:28 PM   #438
ChaseB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardcoreHeath View Post
It looks like it can provide cam and crank signals. I just wonder how you go about syncing it.

Do you have a link from Accel that has some more info on it?
this.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by NextJeep View Post
Well boys and girls, there's good news, and bad news.

The good news: Accel has prompt customer service.

The bad news: The distributor is for 04 and new jeeps that have been equipped with their thruster system.

From an email I received from Accel:

The 77242 Dual Sync distributor is not a stock replacement distributor. It is designed to provide cam and crank signals to our Gen 7/ Thruster systems used in 04 and earlier 4.0 Jeeps.

Regards,
Dave Seidel
Accel-DFI
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Unread 02-04-2011, 07:31 PM   #439
tkki1230
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OK-

I found something that going be a game changer in this big f*cking mess. This is going to make everyone’s day. I know it made mine. I just wish I had found it sooner. There is one fundamental difference between the 05-06 units and the earlier models. The unit bodies are DIFFERENT in the area underneath the block mounting flange. The bushings in the earlier models are actually receiving oil from the camshaft gear via a lubrication channel/hole.

Here's a picture:


The 05-06 units don't have it:


Here are more shots:




Here's a side by side:


Notice the flat spot cut into the body... That allows for gap positioned right next to the cam gear. Look at this shot that I borrowed from Willydigger's post. I'm pretty sure that this is a pic of a pre 05-06 unit. The blue arrow shows the gap created by the flat spot. Oil gets flung into the opening by the cam gear. The oil then gets into that hole in the side of the body.


The one thing that kept bothering me was the oil groove on the shaft going downwards, or the "wrong" way. I also kept wondering why was that oil seal needed on the top of the older units. See pics:




That groove was actually going the right way. Oil goes into the unit via the hole, and gets evacuated downwards via the groove. The oil does not travel up the shaft past the thrust bearing like we all thought. And the seal was needed to keep the engine oil out that was getting to BOTH bushings.

Because the 05-06 bushing sticks out, it would be really tough to put on a seal, so the FOGMOD would still be the way to go for the top bushing.



With this new information, for those of us who want to modify the original units, hopefully we can now address the lower bushing issue.

Right now, the 05-06 lower bushing is a bit too long. It needs to be shortened so it clears the new oil hole. Also, a groove needs to be machined into everyones shaft. Last, the unit bodies are a little different, so depending on how anal you want to get, you might want to do some work there too. If you can find a machine shop that can weld aluminum, that would be good.

I would suggest everyone get your hands on an older unit so you can see the differences.

One thing is pretty clear if you ask me....05-06 Jeep owners now have solid proof that the factory messed up big time.
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Unread 02-04-2011, 07:35 PM   #440
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A few thoughts on oil and ZDDP levels a bit I did some more research. Mobile One 4T racing contains 1700 PPM of zinc and is SJ and JASO certified so that level of ZDDP must be acceptable for use in a normal "passenger car" engine.

That being said I've found several weight oils with much higher levels of ZDDP than both the Mobile one TDT and the Valvoline ZR-1 and they are not that much $$ either.

Brad Penn oils are VERY highly regarded in the high end engine builders circles. Brad Penn 10W-30 has 1500 PPM of Zinc and 1400 of Phosphorus is available from summit racing for $6.00 a quart.

Summer racing -> http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRS-BPO10W-30QT/

Brad Penn -> http://www.amref.com/CMSFiles/File/b...HP_Oils_PB.pdf

Or if your comfortable with the thicker oils then Summit carries a "Semi-synthetic" 10W-40 or SAE 30 with 1800PPM for $6.00 a quart. Both of which are API SL certified. The Summit racing oil is made by a company called Spectro Oils that is also a very well respected oil mfg.

In the warmer climates (with this cold spell I don't think any of the US is a warmer climate BURR) the 10W-40 or the SAE 30 should be fine.

As far as the ZDDP levels from all the reading I've done and a few petrochemical engineers I've spoken with that 2000PPM is the level to avoid. Remeber that ZDDP doesn't remain constant but is actually consumed during the use of the oil just as detergent is (TBN). Also most oils will come in 200PPM below what they spec on Zinc and Phos numbers.

Just some food for thought.

EDIT Just realized Tikki was posting a rather epic post while I was typing this...didn't mean to bump his post.
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Unread 02-04-2011, 07:37 PM   #441
Slacksuperstar
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I scored a free gear off a coworkers 2000 tj will it work on my 06 opda if my gear begins to wear funky?
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Unread 02-04-2011, 07:39 PM   #442
NextJeep
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Thanks Tkki. This only makes this whole thing that much more fun to trouble shoot
Dumb question... could I not take a 2004 or older unit and a 2005/2006 and frankenstein together a workable unit?
Or could I not just drill the missing hole in my unit and skip the oil channel on the shaft? I think I coould easily do everything myself except that dern oil channel on the shaft.
So who's going to contact Chrysler on this? I would, except they are already replacing my gas tank in the next week or so, maybe when I talk to my rep I will mention this thread. They also just did a recall on my transmission last month. When it rains... it POURS.
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Unread 02-04-2011, 07:42 PM   #443
ChaseB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NextJeep View Post
Thanks Tkki. This only makes this whole thing that much more fun to trouble shoot
Dumb question... could I not take a 2004 or older unit and a 2005/2006 and frankenstein together a workable unit?
Or could I not just drill the missing hole in my unit and skip the oil channel on the shaft? I think I coould easily do everything myself except that dern oil channel on the shaft.
but there is also that flat spot cut into the body by the hole. This mod looks even more complicated than the first. Damn OPDAs

Nice one the discovery though
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Unread 02-04-2011, 07:44 PM   #444
tkki1230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NextJeep View Post
Thanks Tkki. This only makes this whole thing that much more fun to trouble shoot
Dumb question... could I not take a 2004 or older unit and a 2005/2006 and frankenstein together a workable unit?
Or could I not just drill the missing hole in my unit and skip the oil channel on the shaft? I think I coould easily do everything myself except that dern oil channel on the shaft.
I think anything goes at this point. I'm going to try and duplicate the older unit's features, and take pictures of the wear and tear 5000 miles from now. Hopefully, everyone who does some kind of modification does the same.
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Unread 02-04-2011, 07:44 PM   #445
willydigger
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tkki, thanks for the pics.

Question 1. Does the old OPDA have the oil channels at the bottom bushing or is the hole the ONLY way for oil to get in?



I don't see any channels.



The 2005-06 OPDA actually has three channels that are fed oil by the rotation of the OPDA gear. The hole in the old OPDA allows oil in at a different spot. Since we know the bottom bushing gets oil in the 2005-06 version, I think the problem is still directed at the top bushing. Modifying the bottom with a hole in the side isn't necessary.

Question 2. If the oil is going in the side and the bottom groove evacuates the oil out, are we presuming that the flow generated by the camshaft gear is enough to push oil up into the top bushing? Specifically can you see anything on the inside between the bushings?
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Unread 02-04-2011, 07:47 PM   #446
willydigger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slacksuperstar View Post
I scored a free gear off a coworkers 2000 tj will it work on my 06 opda if my gear begins to wear funky?
As long as the holes align on the 2000 gear and the 2006 shaft. Otherwise it is the same gear.
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Unread 02-04-2011, 07:52 PM   #447
Mayfair_Jeeper
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has anyone taken this to a lawyer and thought about filing for a class action lawsuit? If not, I think we have enough information here that this is widespread. We all will need to contact Chrysler though and get official responses.....
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Unread 02-04-2011, 07:53 PM   #448
Slacksuperstar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
As long as the holes align on the 2000 gear and the 2006 shaft. Otherwise it is the same gear.
Sweet I still have to inspect mine i plan on pulling it when the weather improves
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Unread 02-04-2011, 07:58 PM   #449
tkki1230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
tkki, thanks for the pics.

Question 1. Does the old OPDA have the oil channels at the bottom bushing or is the hole the ONLY way for oil to get in?



I don't see any channels.



The 2005-06 OPDA actually has three channels that are fed oil by the rotation of the OPDA gear. The hole in the old OPDA allows oil in at a different spot. Since we know the bottom bushing gets oil in the 2005-06 version, I think the problem is still directed at the top bushing. Modifying the bottom with a hole in the side isn't necessary.

Question 2. If the oil is going in the side and the bottom groove evacuates the oil out, are we presuming that the flow generated by the camshaft gear is enough to push oil up into the top bushing? Specifically can you see anything on the inside between the bushings?
The oil flow on the 04 units was significant to the point where it was leaking past the seal on the 2 units that I have. The inside of the 04 bodies are full of sludge.

I'm still going to modify my unit to match the 04 unit though. Just looking at the difference between my 06 shafts and the two 04 shafts that I have is proof enough. The new OPDA unit that I put in 3000 miles ago already has scoring on the shaft by the lower bushing area, like yours does. And I would think that it is getting zero oil for it to score like that, especially since it's turning at such a slow rpm.

There are going to be a lot of debates about this, but I'm going to try it anyway. I have 3 brand new units with me, so messing one up won't hurt. Solving this problem is going to take a lot of work, and a lot of miles. Everyone's been so good with this problem, pitching in and helping. I'll do my part too. I'll take pics a couple months from now to see how it works out.
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Unread 02-04-2011, 07:59 PM   #450
willydigger
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tkki, I'm going to add some of your pics to the dissection section.

Had to update my comparison drawing.
opdaoilpathlabelold2.jpg  
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