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Unread 01-30-2011, 01:11 PM   #316
ChaseB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pslamp32 View Post
Just thought I'd post what a Jeep mechanic told me about taking the OPDA in and out. I did mine and everything seems perfect but...

"Now, how ya gonna sync it back up? It ain't drop in and run..."

"As long as you mark it and drop it back in the same tooth like a distributor, why would it matter?"

"On a distributor type setup that would be fine, of course. But 99 and new 4.0's actually sync the cam and crank sensors together for fuel trim. They must be within 2 degrees on 99-04 and .5 degrees on 05-06. Its not easily attained without the proper scan tool."

"You guys be careful removing these to "inspect". They do drop back in a bolt down, but they will not be properly in sync and will not perform correctly."

"If some of you didn't know, I'm a 13 year lead tech at Asheville's Jeep/Chrysler/Dodge dealer. I'm not just spewing interweb junk here."
By marking them, they go back in the exact way that they came out. The computer will compensate for slight differences. You'll know if you put it in wrong, the computer WILL throw a code.

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Unread 01-30-2011, 01:23 PM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07AMF View Post
Going to attemp to do the mod. Do I have to drill through the bushing when drilling for the grease port?

Thanks
Here is an excerpt from the first page. You will have to drill through the bushing.

Quote:
Here is a cut-away with a top view. The green line is where the zerk is located. The actual position will vary. You can put the zerk anywhere that is comfortable for you.
The green arrow is where the grease will enter the reservoir. The yellow area is the grease reservoir that surrounds the outside of the bushing. You will drill the hole in the bushing through the factory hole. The red arrow shows where the grease will enter the bushing and contact the shaft.

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Unread 01-30-2011, 01:31 PM   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pslamp32 View Post
Just thought I'd post what a Jeep mechanic told me about taking the OPDA in and out. I did mine and everything seems perfect but...

"Now, how ya gonna sync it back up? It ain't drop in and run..."

"As long as you mark it and drop it back in the same tooth like a distributor, why would it matter?"

"On a distributor type setup that would be fine, of course. But 99 and new 4.0's actually sync the cam and crank sensors together for fuel trim. They must be within 2 degrees on 99-04 and .5 degrees on 05-06. Its not easily attained without the proper scan tool."

"You guys be careful removing these to "inspect". They do drop back in a bolt down, but they will not be properly in sync and will not perform correctly."

"If some of you didn't know, I'm a 13 year lead tech at Asheville's Jeep/Chrysler/Dodge dealer. I'm not just spewing interweb junk here."
For those of you uncomfortable with the sharpie method, you can set it for TDC like the first page describes. I've had mine out several times (3 different OPDA's) and I've never had an issue. My fuel economy is still terrible, my engine runs great, and I've never thrown a code. There is a little backlash. You can never put it back exactly the way it came out. I'm sure a scan tool will set it up perfectly, but I'm completely confident you will get it close enough with the sharpie.

Out of curiosity, if it isn't set up perfect what is expected to happen?
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Unread 01-30-2011, 01:34 PM   #319
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As to recalls,
I am fairly certain recalls are for safety issues. Usually a recall is made once it's determined something failed (or surely will fail) which caused (or can cause) an accident, injury, or death due to the failure.
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Unread 01-30-2011, 01:45 PM   #320
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Here's my "VIP Summary Report" printed out by a local service manager. The recall information is located at the bottom.

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Unread 01-30-2011, 05:21 PM   #321
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I have a couple of things to share with you guys.

First, I found out first hand what happens if you install the OPDA too far off. My check engine light has been on, but the scan tool I borrowed from a friend wouldn't pick up the code, so until today, I didn't realize there was a problem being out of sync. I was driving down the highway and started to pass a pickup who was going between 55-60mph. I stood on it pretty good and started around him when the jeep started lunging/lurching/bucking (whatever description is best). Well, I backed off the gas and it ran ok again.

When I got home I tried the scan reader again but no luck, so I tried the 3-key method and it showed code P0016, so I knew my cam sync must be off. I took my serpentine belt off so I could see the TDC timing mark and turned the crankshaft until it was right on the mark. Checked the target wheel and sure enough, it was off by about 1/4". Moved the housing over and got the holes lined up, put the belt back on, took her for a test drive and she ran great, no check engine light either.

The second thing, when I took the cover off the OPDA (this is the new, unmodified OPDA I installed a month or so ago), I noticed there was a little bit of oil inside the housing. The only place this could have come from is up the shaft and under the target wheel. That actually made me feel better about lubrication getting to the top bushing. Maybe I'll leave this one in for a while as it is.

I've also been looking to buy an OBD scanner that shows if the cam sync is off. Does anyone know if the scanners that will show real-time data would do this? I figure if it would at least show how much it's off I can adjust it until it's right.

I was looking at something like this but I'm not sure if it does what I want or not.
http://www.amazon.com/Equus-3140-Diagnostic-Scanner-Vehicles/dp/B000R3SNJU
If anyone knows anything about OBD scanners and what I'm looking for, I would appreciate your input
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Unread 01-30-2011, 05:26 PM   #322
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Just an FWIW on best oils for the 4.0:

After realizing the Mobil 1 High Milage Formula now contains reduced levels of Phosphorus and Zinc (900 ppm and 1000 ppm respectively) which are only mariginally better than any other SM oil, I had turned to Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 like many others here, but I was still not completely satisfied with the TDT formula due to the Phosphorus and Zinc levels (1100 ppm and 1200 ppm) still being below those of the older SL oils that the 4.0 seems to need.

Realizing the oil makers are constantly changing formulations, I did a bit more research over the past couple days and came up with looks to be an even better choice:
Valvoline Racing VR-1 10w30 Conventional formula.
I had previously discounted any "racing" oils as most are not intended for street use, but Valvoline advertises this as an oil suitable for both track use or passenger car use with Phosphorus and Zinc levels (1400 ppm and 1300 ppm respectively) at or above those in the original SL oils the 4.0 was designed to run on.

#1- This is their regular dino formulation VR-1 and accompanying specs:
http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/racing-motor-oil/6
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/VR-1_Racing_Motor_Oil.pdf

Unfortunately, per Valvoline tech line, the VR-1 10w30 Synthetic formula does not have the same higher levels of ZDDP that the conventional formula does. Zinc and Phosphorus levels are only 1000 ppm and 900ppm.
http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/racing-motor-oil/8

The 2 major benefits of the VR-1 conventional over the M1 Turbo Diesel Truck oil are:

1) It's the exact 10W-30 viscosity grade recommended for the 4.0
2) It has the higher levels of ZDDP.

If the fact that this is a 'racing oil' bothers you, don't let it. This is a separate series of oils than the true Valvoline racing oils which are actually labeled "not for street use".
Keep in mind, if the VR-1 conventional oil was advertised as a regular oil, Valvoline wouldn't be able to offer the higher ZDDP additives due to the current government restrictions. They are using a loophole by calling it a 'Race' oil. The VR-1 oil is in fact stamped with the 'API SL' designation, the same designation as the oils that the Jeep 4.0 were filled with when they left the factory. The true race oils usually have no designations.

The dino formula VR-1 goes for about $5 a quart.

I'll likely be changing to the conventional VR-1.

As a side note, it's interesting that just a couple years ago, none of the oil companys would mention anything about the Phosphorus/Zinc issue, but now that premature engine wear problems continue to be reported, satisfactory oils are becoming available.

Last edited by Xlr8n; 01-31-2011 at 11:23 AM.. Reason: Edited to reflect Formulation ZDDP levels per Valvoline
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Unread 01-30-2011, 05:51 PM   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lope View Post
I have a couple of things to share with you guys.

First, I found out first hand what happens if you install the OPDA too far off. My check engine light has been on, but the scan tool I borrowed from a friend wouldn't pick up the code, so until today, I didn't realize there was a problem being out of sync. I was driving down the highway and started to pass a pickup who was going between 55-60mph. I stood on it pretty good and started around him when the jeep started lunging/lurching/bucking (whatever description is best). Well, I backed off the gas and it ran ok again.

When I got home I tried the scan reader again but no luck, so I tried the 3-key method and it showed code P0016, so I knew my cam sync must be off. I took my serpentine belt off so I could see the TDC timing mark and turned the crankshaft until it was right on the mark. Checked the target wheel and sure enough, it was off by about 1/4". Moved the housing over and got the holes lined up, put the belt back on, took her for a test drive and she ran great, no check engine light either.

The second thing, when I took the cover off the OPDA (this is the new, unmodified OPDA I installed a month or so ago), I noticed there was a little bit of oil inside the housing. The only place this could have come from is up the shaft and under the target wheel. That actually made me feel better about lubrication getting to the top bushing. Maybe I'll leave this one in for a while as it is.

I've also been looking to buy an OBD scanner that shows if the cam sync is off. Does anyone know if the scanners that will show real-time data would do this? I figure if it would at least show how much it's off I can adjust it until it's right.

I was looking at something like this but I'm not sure if it does what I want or not.
http://www.amazon.com/Equus-3140-Dia.../dp/B000R3SNJU

If anyone knows anything about OBD scanners and what I'm looking for, I would appreciate your input
So it's when the timing advanced that the engine light came on. Kinda makes me wonder if I put mine in correctly. I marked the crap out of it....ehhh idk....guess I'll get on it tonight on the way home!
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Unread 01-30-2011, 05:52 PM   #324
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And thank for the oil alternatives Xlr8n!
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Unread 01-30-2011, 06:10 PM   #325
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I get a pretty wicked vibration over 3,000 rpm. And this was with the jeep in park. Not sure if that could be related to the OPDA or not. Any ideas?

No check engine light

Could just be the engine and trans mount though
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Unread 01-30-2011, 06:23 PM   #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lope View Post
I have a couple of things to share with you guys.
...
When I got home I tried the scan reader again but no luck, so I tried the 3-key method and it showed code P0016, so I knew my cam sync must be off. I took my serpentine belt off so I could see the TDC timing mark and turned the crankshaft until it was right on the mark. Checked the target wheel and sure enough, it was off by about 1/4". Moved the housing over and got the holes lined up, put the belt back on, took her for a test drive and she ran great, no check engine light either.

The second thing, when I took the cover off the OPDA (this is the new, unmodified OPDA I installed a month or so ago), I noticed there was a little bit of oil inside the housing. The only place this could have come from is up the shaft and under the target wheel. That actually made me feel better about lubrication getting to the top bushing. Maybe I'll leave this one in for a while as it is.
I assume you used the sharpie method first? How did you mark it 1/4 inch off?

How many miles on the OPDA before you noticed the oil? What are your plans to stop it from leaking out?
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Unread 01-30-2011, 06:24 PM   #327
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Here is the poop with timing the OPDA.

The OPDA only controls the fuel injection timing. The spark timing is sent to the computer from the crank position sensor. Once the engine starts it know with-in a X number of degrees it should see a pulse from the OPDA. If it doesn't it throws a check engine light very quickly after start up.

However if the OPDA is close but still outside 15 degrees + or - of where it should be the computer will notice it once you get above 2000 RPMs and will throw a check engine light.

Now for the good news, the computer is designed to be able to tolerate, notice and correct for up to 15 degrees +/- of the where the OPDA should be. If your under the 15 degrees the computer will realize it and make a correction much like we see with short and long term fuel trims.

If you re-install your OPDA and get a check engine light when you get above 2000 RPM, mark where the OPDA is against the block. Then move it just a hair clockwise, reset the check engine light and go for a drive. If the check engine light comes on again then you need to go back to the mark and then move it just a hair counter clock wise. What this is doing is taking into account for the "wiggle" in the OPDA gear and the camshaft gear that we see when we pull the assembly out.

As far as buying a "code scanner" that will give you live data so you can set the OPDA be prepared to open your wallet. To set the OPDA you must have a tool that can actually talk to the computer and request it to perform tests, not just live data. The scan tool/computers that can do this much have a "instruction set" for specific auto maker IE a Toyota set, a Chrsler set, Ford set, ETC.

Scan tools that have this ability like the snap on MODIS are in the thousands of dollars range.

Getting back to the question, if the OPDA is off center but under the 15 degrees is it going to hurt my fuel mileage, the answer is no. When I replaced my OPDA I was curious to the same question and have access to a scan tool that can perform the cam sensor alignment test. What I did was set it to 13-14 degrees off center and drove the jeep around for a couple of days and recorded gas mileage. Then I swung it back out of syn 13-14 degrees the out way and drove a couple of days. Then I centered it spot on at 0 degrees and the fuel mileage and engine performance was the same in all three positions.

So as long as your not throwing a check engine light your timing is with-in spec and your not going to gain anything by getting your OPDA spot on zero. And when you pay Chrysler to do it they are not zeroing it either, they are just getting it with-in on the DRB-III and locking it down.


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Unread 01-30-2011, 06:29 PM   #328
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Thanks FOG!
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Unread 01-30-2011, 06:42 PM   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xlr8n View Post
Just an FWIW on best oils for the 4.0:
...
I guess we need to figure out what is the right amount. It's nice to have some data to support the ZDDP levels.

Quick Edit: I just noticed the Valvoline .pdf if revised 2008. Xlr8n, if you do talk to them see if there is a more recent update. The Mobil 1 .pdf is 2010.
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Unread 01-30-2011, 06:58 PM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
I assume you used the sharpie method first? How did you mark it 1/4 inch off?
I've always turned the crank to TDC and aligned the holes, never used a sharpie. I think I must have accidentally turned the housing before I got the hold down screw snug, just careless on my part I'm sure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
How many miles on the OPDA before you noticed the oil?
I've had this OPDA in for most of 2-3,000 miles I guess but I only put a couple hundred on it since the last time I had it out, so the oil seepage would have had to be since then.


Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
What are your plans to stop it from leaking out?
I'm not sure yet, it was a very small leak but with the dirt roads I have to drive on it will be a filthy mess in there if it keeps leaking. At least I know the upper bushing is getting oil to it but I'll probably try to figure out some way to seal the top better.
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