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post #3151 of Old 05-06-2012, 08:39 AM
cv4w
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Hello guys, I'm another victim of this thing. I've been reading through these posts and trying to figure this all out. I have a few questions and I hope someone is still monitoring the thread. I've got a 2006 Rubicon with 40k miles. Just started the monkey noise last saturday. As it only occured when cold and went away in a few minutes, it was tough to troubleshoot. Replaced a few pulleys until I found it. Haven't driven it since I found it and read this thread. Probably only drove 100 miles since I first noticed it. The local dealership ordered me a new one and I'm heading up Wednesday for the repairs. My plan was to have them install the first one and let me keep the old one. $375 total is what I'm hearing. I'm assuming, hoping that is, that the cam gear is still ok. I was hoping to either fix the original one with the upgrades you guys have come up with, or if it's too bad, buy another one and upgrade it for a later install. But for the moment, I need my daily driver back.
My questions are this.
1- Am I correct in assuming that the one Chrylser will replace it with is still the same old problem, no effort to correct it?
2- I called 3 dealers, in fact, one of them I used to work for years ago and basically got the same response from all of them. They never heard of any of this. They claim they know nothing of a TSB on it. The last place I called, which is the one getting the job, did say he's replaced quite a few of them in the past. I figured at least they were familiar with the procedure.
3- I wanted to get the first one on Chrysler record by letting them do the job so I at least had a small foot to stand on if I complained to them. Has anyone ever had luck getting any assistance from factory on this? I really don't care about the $375, but I don't want to end up later down the road with the same problem and a bigger engine failure bill.
4- I'm a maintenance tech by trade, so I feel fairly comfortable about the upgrade ideas you all have. Has this shown to be a "fix" or just hold the problem off a while? Anyone have any real long success with it?
5- and another one. I've ALWAYS been a religious user of Castrol. Always ran 10w-40 in everything I own from mowers to Jeeps. I've had quite a few of these 4.0 engines and even the old 258. I've gotten in excess of 200k miles on them with no failure at all. I live in MD. Hot summers, and 20 degree winters. Garage kept. Am I causing some of this with this oil and should I change brands? Or at least weights? I really hate to do that, but I guess if it means saving the Jeep.
And lastly- does the new OPDA come with a new gear installed or do I need to specify that in the repair? The guy at the dealer took my order over the phone and ordered the part. I didn't tell him to make sure I wanted a new gear too.
This whole thing really ticked me off. Like the average guy these days, we don't have much extra cash. I wanted to get the last of the old body style, and more importantly the last of the 4.0. Paid a good bit of dough for this thing used with 33k on it. I was really hoping to have another one that would last the 10-15 years I planned to use it. I love this thing and I can't begin to say how much this has blown my warm and fuzzy feelings away. Any other advice you guys can give me would be great.
Thanks in advance

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post #3152 of Old 05-06-2012, 08:52 AM
Heath
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Short answer to your oil questions.

You may have not changed oil brands all these years, but your brand has changed on you.


Oils don't have the ZDDP levels they once did, so in essence, the "exact same" oil you have always used is now a totally different formula than it was several years ago. These changes are mostly improvements for modern engines, but the lack of ZDDP is what hurts the lifters/cam and gear drives in older style engines.

2013 JKU Rubicon
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post #3153 of Old 05-06-2012, 12:06 PM
TJJP77
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Okay folks, time for an update now that I've finally accumulated a reasonable amount of miles on my new cam and OPDA gear. I drove my Jeep from Michigan to Moab for Easter Jeep Safari this year and have accumulated around 4,000 (jeep has a little over 16K miles on it now) miles since replacing the camshaft and OPDA gear. As some of you may recall, I swapped the cam out without pulling the head in this thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/ho...-head-1218328/

I'm happy to report that the OPDA gear is wearing properly with a small little wear patch of virtually the same width all the way around the circumference of the gear, which is of course what you want:


The camshaft gear appears to still be breaking in and hasn't become polished as yet, but I'm pleased with it's progress as well:


Before I removed the OPDA yesterday, I checked the difference between the "cam-crank difference" and the "cam learned value" and they haven't drifted at all from when I installed them, so that means no wear is occuring - yay!

For anyone curious, I've been running Valvoline VR-1 10W-30 (non-synthetic) since the repair and during the initial break-in I had a crane cams break-in additive in with the oil. That initial break-in oil was drained with just shy of 1,000 miles on it since it had been sitting in the crankcase for about a year and I wanted fresh oil in the Jeep for the Moab trip.

Chris
'02 Sahara
'06 Rubicon Unlimited
Sienna Jeep Club: Member #15
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post #3154 of Old 05-06-2012, 06:56 PM
bonza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cv4w View Post
1- Am I correct in assuming that the one Chrylser will replace it with is still the same old problem, no effort to correct it? Correct
2- I called 3 dealers, in fact, one of them I used to work for years ago and basically got the same response from all of them. They never heard of any of this. They claim they know nothing of a TSB on it. The last place I called, which is the one getting the job, did say he's replaced quite a few of them in the past. I figured at least they were familiar with the procedure. No idea. I havent been back to a dealer since purchasing my Jeep 6 years ago
3- I wanted to get the first one on Chrysler record by letting them do the job so I at least had a small foot to stand on if I complained to them. Has anyone ever had luck getting any assistance from factory on this? AFAIK Chrysler has simply ignored the problem
4- I'm a maintenance tech by trade, so I feel fairly comfortable about the upgrade ideas you all have. Has this shown to be a "fix" or just hold the problem off a while? Anyone have any real long success with it? Yes, I have put on many thousand of miles with the fog mod. to me it is a permanent fix.
5- and another one. I've ALWAYS been a religious user of Castrol. Always ran 10w-40 in everything I own from mowers to Jeeps. I've had quite a few of these 4.0 engines and even the old 258. I've gotten in excess of 200k miles on them with no failure at all. I live in MD. Hot summers, and 20 degree winters. Garage kept. Am I causing some of this with this oil and should I change brands? Or at least weights? I really hate to do that, but I guess if it means saving the Jeep. As Heath says. I use a Castrol 15w-40 diesel engine oil also suitable for mixed fleet with API SL. it has a high zddp
And lastly- does the new OPDA come with a new gear installed or do I need to specify that in the repair? The guy at the dealer took my order over the phone and ordered the part. I didn't tell him to make sure I wanted a new gear too. Yes, comes with new gear fitted to the OPDA
This whole thing really ticked me off. Like the average guy these days, we don't have much extra cash. I wanted to get the last of the old body style, and more importantly the last of the 4.0. Paid a good bit of dough for this thing used with 33k on it. I was really hoping to have another one that would last the 10-15 years I planned to use it. I love this thing and I can't begin to say how much this has blown my warm and fuzzy feelings away. Yep. my sentiments exactly
Thanks in advance
answers next to your questions

"I like a man who grins when he fights"
Winston Churchill..
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post #3155 of Old 05-07-2012, 10:11 AM
cv4w
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OK. Now, I haven't gotten it in my hands yet, but is there any reason why I couldn't spiral groove the shaft and install an oil line into the bushing instead of a grease fitting? Figured I could bring oil pressure off of a T fitting at the oil pressure sending unit and run it directly into the bushing. From there, I was thinking of letting it drain on past the cam gear and back into the crankcase. That would be a constant supply of oil and require no additional maintenance. Anyone have any input on that one?
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post #3156 of Old 05-07-2012, 10:18 AM
LRod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cv4w View Post
OK. Now, I haven't gotten it in my hands yet, but is there any reason why I couldn't spiral groove the shaft and install an oil line into the bushing instead of a grease fitting? Figured I could bring oil pressure off of a T fitting at the oil pressure sending unit and run it directly into the bushing. From there, I was thinking of letting it drain on past the cam gear and back into the crankcase. That would be a constant supply of oil and require no additional maintenance. Anyone have any input on that one?
I did something similar, but the oil took the path of least resistance and came out the top of the shaft and into the OPDA. I got tired of foolin with it and piped a drain hose from the OPDA to the oil dipstick for now. I also added ZDDP to the oil and moved on to other Jeep projects, CB installation, powered trans oil cooler, on board air etc. Good luck and keep in touch with any progress.
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post #3157 of Old 05-07-2012, 10:39 AM
cv4w
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Any chance that could be the rotation of the oil groove that drove it upward rather than down? I'm sorry to be the new guy beating a dead horse, but I'm still a bit peaved as it is sitting idle in my garage.
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post #3158 of Old 05-07-2012, 10:45 AM
Bigbob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cv4w View Post
OK. Now, I haven't gotten it in my hands yet, but is there any reason why I couldn't spiral groove the shaft and install an oil line into the bushing instead of a grease fitting? Figured I could bring oil pressure off of a T fitting at the oil pressure sending unit and run it directly into the bushing. From there, I was thinking of letting it drain on past the cam gear and back into the crankcase. That would be a constant supply of oil and require no additional maintenance. Anyone have any input on that one?
I did that as well. Look on page 1 for a write up of sorts. Getting the top sealed is difficult.

Now, if you wanted to defeat the seal at the bottom of the top bushing and install a oil line tha just dripped a bit of oil you should be okay. I wanted to run enough oil to add extra oil to the gear, eventually I'll get it sorted out.

I think for now the best idea is to get a new unit and do the oil bath mod. If you think your old unit's top bushing seal is good do the oil bath.

2006 Solar Yellow Rubicon Unlimited
Jeep Club Member #1340
6 Speed, Hardtop
Mods done: Hurst tee handle, cheap hand throttle, Rokmen Merc front bumper, Warn 9.5 TI winch with 3/8" X 100 worth of Viking yellow rope, DPG OME Ultimate with JKS ACOS up front, Kilby Gas Tank Skid, Kilby Steering Box Skid, Jeep Medic Belly Up, Skidrow Engine Skid, Rockcrusher Diff Skid in the rear, Warn Diff cover in front, , AR Outlaw II's and MTR 12:50/15's, Homemade rear Bumper, Cheap Cobra CB, Puma OBA, Sirius Radio, Locker Defeat, Rockhard cage, Rockmen short corners, homemade tire swing/tailgate hinge affair, Airlift air bags on the rear- - - - - - and more to come!
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post #3159 of Old 05-07-2012, 11:20 AM
LRod
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I defeated the oil seal but I didn't groove the shaft, and was hoping BigBob would come up with an answer to the upper seal problem. As I said, I just got tired of messing with it and wanted some kind of temporary solution. I haven't been offroad so I keep the cap off the OPDA and check the shaft for oiling, when it's running you can see the oil slowly come up the shaft and down through the drain hose. It seems to be doing well. I'm using my original OPDA, and am leaving it on the Back Burner till something better comes up, if not it will stay in place, all told the parts cost about $20.00.
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post #3160 of Old 05-07-2012, 11:37 AM
LRod
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"I love this thing and I can't begin to say how much this has blown my warm and fuzzy feelings away." " Yep. my sentiments exactly"

I've had two Jeep Grand Cherokee's and two Wranglers, I'll never buy another one again. I don't know how long I'll keep this Rubicon either.

F_ _ k you Chrysler!!!!!!
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post #3161 of Old 05-08-2012, 03:54 PM
stripperguy
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Gentlemen,
I am back from my business trip. I have not forgotten this issue nor dropped the ball.
I have been collecting quotes for the required components and raw materials.
As soon as I get a handle on the costs, I'll respond to those of you that want to be beta testers. you can have a modified OPDA for my cost, no labor, just shipping. Then we'll wait a few weeks and see how everything holds up with the accumulated miles.
That's all I have for now...
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post #3162 of Old 05-09-2012, 08:34 AM
ajmadic
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How many have responded to being the beta testers? I would like to be one, I'd just need to figure out my driving situation for a week.

05 Rubi; she goes by Ragu.
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post #3163 of Old 05-09-2012, 08:52 AM
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I can send a new one your way, maybe two of them. On one of them I'd like to install my flow through oil deal to get extra oil to the gear area. I am suspecting with your design the top bushing and seal are eliminated correct?

2006 Solar Yellow Rubicon Unlimited
Jeep Club Member #1340
6 Speed, Hardtop
Mods done: Hurst tee handle, cheap hand throttle, Rokmen Merc front bumper, Warn 9.5 TI winch with 3/8" X 100 worth of Viking yellow rope, DPG OME Ultimate with JKS ACOS up front, Kilby Gas Tank Skid, Kilby Steering Box Skid, Jeep Medic Belly Up, Skidrow Engine Skid, Rockcrusher Diff Skid in the rear, Warn Diff cover in front, , AR Outlaw II's and MTR 12:50/15's, Homemade rear Bumper, Cheap Cobra CB, Puma OBA, Sirius Radio, Locker Defeat, Rockhard cage, Rockmen short corners, homemade tire swing/tailgate hinge affair, Airlift air bags on the rear- - - - - - and more to come!
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post #3164 of Old 05-09-2012, 07:57 PM
stripperguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbob View Post
I can send a new one your way, maybe two of them. On one of them I'd like to install my flow through oil deal to get extra oil to the gear area. I am suspecting with your design the top bushing and seal are eliminated correct?
yes, Bob, the upper bushing will be replaced with a sealed rolling element bearing, and there should be no need for an upper seal, since there would be no leak path.
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post #3165 of Old 05-10-2012, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stripperguy View Post
yes, Bob, the upper bushing will be replaced with a sealed rolling element bearing, and there should be no need for an upper seal, since there would be no leak path.
I was refering to the stock seal below the top bushing.
Will that still be there?

2006 Solar Yellow Rubicon Unlimited
Jeep Club Member #1340
6 Speed, Hardtop
Mods done: Hurst tee handle, cheap hand throttle, Rokmen Merc front bumper, Warn 9.5 TI winch with 3/8" X 100 worth of Viking yellow rope, DPG OME Ultimate with JKS ACOS up front, Kilby Gas Tank Skid, Kilby Steering Box Skid, Jeep Medic Belly Up, Skidrow Engine Skid, Rockcrusher Diff Skid in the rear, Warn Diff cover in front, , AR Outlaw II's and MTR 12:50/15's, Homemade rear Bumper, Cheap Cobra CB, Puma OBA, Sirius Radio, Locker Defeat, Rockhard cage, Rockmen short corners, homemade tire swing/tailgate hinge affair, Airlift air bags on the rear- - - - - - and more to come!
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