2005-06 Jeep OPDA_CPS_Distributor Failure - Page 201 - JeepForum.com
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post #3001 of 5527 Old 04-17-2012, 11:34 AM
Bigbob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LRod View Post
I don't have a seal on it yet, just regulating the flow with the valve. Where did you pick up the seal you used?
Could a machine shop cut an "O" ring groove in the upper end of the shaft and get a good seal? I only have the one OPDA other wise I'd try the "O" ring repair.
I was going to do the o-ring on the shaft. Not sure if it'd work or not.


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post #3002 of 5527 Old 04-17-2012, 12:25 PM
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Maybe not? too much friction over time. I've regulated the flow to a point where it doesen't spill, but it drips a few drops overnight. I don't know how much it's lubricating but I can see that the shaft is oiled. Keep in touch.
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post #3003 of 5527 Old 04-17-2012, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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I've got some interesting news. I was in the process of doing a FogMod. One of the steps is to remove the factory grease. Today was warm 75-80F and when I removed the grease it was separated a bit. It was unusually oily. I took a good look at the upper bushing and noticed there was oil residue, which is very atypical. I decided, before drilling the hole through the bushing, to put some air pressure in the factory hole to see if the oily grease was able to somehow pass through the bushing. It did.



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post #3004 of 5527 Old 04-17-2012, 03:04 PM
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Wow, that is interesting. The only possible way in the world the design would work is if it had a porous bushing, witch it appears it does.

But being so many bushings have worn or failed due to no lubrication I still call the factory OPDA a failed design.

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Mods done: Hurst tee handle, cheap hand throttle, Rokmen Merc front bumper, Warn 9.5 TI winch with 3/8" X 100 worth of Viking yellow rope, DPG OME Ultimate with JKS ACOS up front, Kilby Gas Tank Skid, Kilby Steering Box Skid, Jeep Medic Belly Up, Skidrow Engine Skid, Rockcrusher Diff Skid in the rear, Warn Diff cover in front, , AR Outlaw II's and MTR 12:50/15's, Homemade rear Bumper, Cheap Cobra CB, Puma OBA, Sirius Radio, Locker Defeat, Rockhard cage, Rockmen short corners, homemade tire swing/tailgate hinge affair, Airlift air bags on the rear- - - - - - and more to come!
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post #3005 of 5527 Old 04-17-2012, 03:13 PM
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Bronze pilot bushings that go into the end of the crankshaft/transmission input shaft, are meant to be soaked in oil overnight prior to installation. They do soak up oil and will last a lot longer than if installed dry.

Wonder if the factory used a porous bronze???

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post #3006 of 5527 Old 04-17-2012, 03:19 PM
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Any possibility of something like this working?
http://www.daemar.com/bushings_solid-metal_64.htm
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post #3007 of 5527 Old 04-17-2012, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbob View Post
Wow, that is interesting. The only possible way in the world the design would work is if it had a porous bushing, witch it appears it does.

But being so many bushings have worn or failed due to no lubrication I still call the factory OPDA a failed design.
I remembered in the first thread Fog mentioned a channel that allowed the air to escape during his test. I think this is what he saw.

I think it is a porous bushing and I think it is poor. The grease needs to be hot. Granted it won't take long to get hot, but it's not hot at startup where there is no lubrication (laughing monkey) and any lube allowed to pass through the bushing is trapped in the upper bushing area, leading to that dark black sludge that we've seen from time to time. This sludge likely causing start up binding.

Is it also possible that the lubrication is not long lasting explaining the shaft and bushing deterioration causing catastrophic damage?

Thinking out of my ***, but I would suspect the oil cup (and variant of oil applications) are even better now. The oil will be able to seep through the bushing all the time. I still feel better about the hole in the bushing, but now I think the entire bushing will seep the oil. In addition, the oil visibly drains out the top of the bushing, so nothing is getting trapped and hardening.

I also thing this may make the original FogMod with grease moot. The only difference is the Aeroshell grease has a lower cold parameter so that hopefully it is still relative fluid at low temperatures.


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post #3008 of 5527 Old 04-17-2012, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
I think it is a porous bushing and I think it is poor.

Is it also possible that the lubrication is not long lasting explaining the shaft and bushing deterioration causing catastrophic damage?
A poor design is a poor design. Engineers think too hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
Thinking out of my ***, but I would suspect the oil cup (and variant of oil applications) are even better now. The oil will be able to seep through the bushing all the time. I still feel better about the hole in the bushing,
I'd still drill a hole. The porous bushing ain't too porous maybe? Besides, even with a hole the bushing can still seep oil.

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post #3009 of 5527 Old 04-18-2012, 08:42 PM
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Willy, that is interesting. Back when I first disassembled my OPDA I removed the plug & found the “grease” everyone has. I did the same as you & blew air into the reservoir. Believe it or not I saw the same thing you saw. I stopped to get a better light to really see what was happening. With better light I again pressurized the reservoir. This time I didn’t get anything so I discounted it. Maybe the reason it didn’t repeat was because I had pushed all the available “grease” through the bushing. (?) I did find an oil film on my shaft but attributed it to the tech giving it a shot of oil when the E05 TBS was done. Now I have to wonder.

One time I asked if the grease was supposed to get to the shaft by osmosis. Maybe that is exactly how it is to work. That said, the lack of lube on all these dry shafts says it’s not a good method.

The only one I know of that has removed a top bushing is Tkki. If he is following this maybe he can take a closer look now that we have seen this & give us a report. Also a couple guys have cut one in half. Maybe they can pop the halves out & examine them. You would have to see the back side (O.D.) to tell because I would think that once the bushing surface starts to gall as most we have seen have done, the “porous” surface would be damaged to the point no lube would pass. I’m guessing the one in your video was a new unit, right?

BTW: GREAT VIDEO!!
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post #3010 of 5527 Old 04-18-2012, 08:45 PM
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How can the grease go through the bushing? Wouldn't the bushing have to be made like swiss cheese for oil to pass through it?


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post #3011 of 5527 Old 04-18-2012, 08:52 PM
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bushing

in the good old days before roller pilot shaft bearings. when we would install a bronze bushing in the end of a crankshaft we would put one finger over the end then fill it with oil and squeeze down on it with the other finger till oil came out the pores That way we pre oiled it. Jeff
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post #3012 of 5527 Old 04-18-2012, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
I remembered in the first thread Fog mentioned a channel that allowed the air to escape during his test. I think this is what he saw.

I think it is a porous bushing and I think it is poor. The grease needs to be hot. Granted it won't take long to get hot, but it's not hot at startup where there is no lubrication (laughing monkey) and any lube allowed to pass through the bushing is trapped in the upper bushing area, leading to that dark black sludge that we've seen from time to time. This sludge likely causing start up binding.

Is it also possible that the lubrication is not long lasting explaining the shaft and bushing deterioration causing catastrophic damage?

Thinking out of my ***, but I would suspect the oil cup (and variant of oil applications) are even better now. The oil will be able to seep through the bushing all the time. I still feel better about the hole in the bushing, but now I think the entire bushing will seep the oil. In addition, the oil visibly drains out the top of the bushing, so nothing is getting trapped and hardening.

I also thing this may make the original FogMod with grease moot. The only difference is the Aeroshell grease has a lower cold parameter so that hopefully it is still relative fluid at low temperatures.

My 06 Rubi has 3000+ miles with the oil bath and hole drilled through the bushing with ZR-1 oil. Absolutely no signs of wear. The only problem I have is dealing with the set screws in the OPDA dripping oil. Will fix the drips with weld next oil change.
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post #3013 of 5527 Old 04-19-2012, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by locosdj View Post
My 06 Rubi has 3000+ miles with the oil bath and hole drilled through the bushing with ZR-1 oil. Absolutely no signs of wear. The only problem I have is dealing with the set screws in the OPDA dripping oil. Will fix the drips with weld next oil change.
JB Weld should fix them. And if you ever got to remove them a little heat will work. Do you have a vent on the cover? I think engine air pressure can work itself past the seal and pressureize the housing. I'm going to drill a small hole in my cover for now until I find a proper vent.

I'm thinking of one of these for McMaster Carr, propably a 1/8" NPT size.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#9833K19
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post #3014 of 5527 Old 04-19-2012, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
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Just a quick follow up on the porous bushing. I think Rubi4MyMrs confirmed this already, but I received another OPDA and did the air test. Again it was bubbling out oil.


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post #3015 of 5527 Old 04-19-2012, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bigbob View Post
...Do you have a vent on the cover? I think engine air pressure can work itself past the seal and pressurize the housing. I'm going to drill a small hole in my cover for now until I find a proper vent.

I'm thinking of one of these for McMaster Carr, probably a 1/8" NPT size.
Can't hurt and a cheap safeguard.


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