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Unread 04-05-2012, 07:21 PM   #2926
stripperguy
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OK, I went back and studied the photos in the 1st page. It sure looks like there is enough room in that upper housing to fit a rolling element bearing. Even if it requires a welded in bung and a little machining, it seems to me that it could work pretty well.
BTW, Mr bosun, I happen to own an R & D business (Miti.cc we are the recognized world leader in foil bearing technology-no brag-just fact) along with a full machine shop. I also started my adult career as an apprenticeship served toolmaker, now I design and build those sort of things that directly protect our nation's safety and security. I can mfg ANYTHING. (with enough time and money)
When I have a little more time to digest all this, I would like to take you up an your offer to send an OPDA for me to study/modify.

I would just like to be able to help everyone (even if it is self serving).

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Unread 04-05-2012, 07:59 PM   #2927
CoRubicon
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The new shaft in my unused OPDA measures .532"

Hope that helps.
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Unread 04-06-2012, 09:46 PM   #2928
bonza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stripperguy View Post
Has any looked into modifying the housing to accept a rolling element bearing?
Without taking it apart myself, could someone tell me the size of the shaft? If it's a common size, and there is room in the housing, maybe a sealed ball bearing could be a solution. (I'm a design engineer by trade))
I apologize in advance if this has already been considered, I only read every 10th page or so...
you will find a post of mine buried somewhere in the three thousand posts where I considered a sealed needle bearing. was a long time ago and I worked out sizes and confirmed rotation speeds with SKF and it was possible, but only with a lot of fiddly work as the housing had to be machined to accept the needle bearing and maybe weaken it. therefore reasoned that the fogmod was the easiest, simplest and from my own experience the most reliable, having put on about 30,000 kilometers since the mod was completed with no evidence of lube loss or shaft deterioration.

stripperguy, I am similarly qualified as you and that was the first thing that crossed my mind

the shaft is 13.5mm and a 13.5mm ID needle bearing was available that would have fit
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Last edited by bonza; 04-06-2012 at 09:49 PM.. Reason: more info
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Unread 04-07-2012, 03:15 PM   #2929
stripperguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoRubicon View Post
The new shaft in my unused OPDA measures .532"

Hope that helps.
Sent you a PM, but your box is full...

OOps, I meant lococdj...

Last edited by stripperguy; 04-07-2012 at 04:56 PM.. Reason: wrong user
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Unread 04-07-2012, 03:57 PM   #2930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stripperguy View Post
OK, I went back and studied the photos in the 1st page. It sure looks like there is enough room in that upper housing to fit a rolling element bearing. Even if it requires a welded in bung and a little machining, it seems to me that it could work pretty well.
BTW, Mr bosun, I happen to own an R & D business (Miti.cc we are the recognized world leader in foil bearing technology-no brag-just fact) along with a full machine shop. I also started my adult career as an apprenticeship served toolmaker, now I design and build those sort of things that directly protect our nation's safety and security. I can mfg ANYTHING. (with enough time and money)
When I have a little more time to digest all this, I would like to take you up an your offer to send an OPDA for me to study/modify.

I would just like to be able to help everyone (even if it is self serving).
It would be a pretty big job to put a needle bearing in and even if it's "sealed" I don't think it would hold up long. No oil up there is the issue.

The oil is best. I built a deal with pressurized oil and a sealed top. So far so good. No leaks. I am running the pressurized oil "Flow Through" deal on my old OPDA but I have a new OPDA I am going to build a version 2.0 of the "flow through" pressurized modification shown on page 1. It sure was easier than going needle bearing. And getting more oil to the gear has got to be a huge plus, or I'd think so anyway.
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Unread 04-07-2012, 04:14 PM   #2931
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Here is a very telling photo if you have an engineering mind:





If you do have an engineering mind and you are devious, like me, you can see this design was either a huge mistake or a joke by some bozo engineer.
The top of the unit is to the left.


And below is what my flow through does. It feeds oil into the system to the tune of 4-6 ozs a minute. .
opdadissection1.jpg   100_0478.jpg  
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Unread 04-07-2012, 05:08 PM   #2932
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Mr. bob,

Is that one of your units sectioned like that?
And I'm curious, what type of seal are you using? Is it just a plain old lip seal? And where did you "borrow" the pressurized oil from?

Mr. bonza,
I would choose a deep groove ball bearing over a needle for this application. I generally specify the bearing for the application, then worry about integration into existing hardware....maybe a welded in bung.

From looking at Mr. bob's cross section, it seems there should have been a reason for that annular cavity around the upper bushing, almost as if the designer intended to introduce oil at that location. Then someone else (at Jeep engineering or maybe accounting) determine that a longer upper bushing was needed to provide more support. Not to defend these excuses for engineers, but they may have been under some sort of pressure or constraint that backed them into this ridiculous corner, or maybe the design group is too large and the communication is poor.

Have you guys heard of the "Dopler" effect? (not Doppler)
That's where stupid ideas sound smarter when traveling towards you at high speed.
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Unread 04-07-2012, 06:24 PM   #2933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stripperguy View Post
Mr. bob,

Is that one of your units sectioned like that?
No, I bowwored the pic from page one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stripperguy View Post
Mr. bob,
And I'm curious, what type of seal are you using? Is it just a plain old lip seal? And where did you "borrow" the pressurized oil from?
Just a plain C/R single lip seal. On Version 1.0 I used a 3/4" OD X 1/2" ID seal. The shaft is actually a bit larger at .5315 or so, but the seal seems to be fine there. On Version 2.0 a rubber bodied 1" OD X 1/2" ID seal will be used.

The oil comes from the oil gauge sender unit and has a flow restrictive hole to limit the amount of oil coming in. With the limited flow of oil I bet a seal really isn't even needed. I grooved the shaft so there is basically no back pressure in the unit. It only flows a couple ounces a minute, but that is a bazillion times more oil to the bushing and a couple more ounces a minute to the gear. Look at the bottom of the first page and click on the link. #6 I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stripperguy View Post
Mr. bob,

From looking at Mr. bob's cross section, it seems there should have been a reason for that annular cavity around the upper bushing, almost as if the designer intended to introduce oil at that location. Then someone else (at Jeep engineering or maybe accounting) determine that a longer upper bushing was needed to provide more support. Not to defend these excuses for engineers, but they may have been under some sort of pressure or constraint that backed them into this ridiculous corner, or maybe the design group is too large and the communication is poor.

Have you guys heard of the "Dopler" effect? (not Doppler)
That's where stupid ideas sound smarter when traveling towards you at high speed.
Nah, I think it was a pissed off employee who was part of the Insane Bozo Clown Squad doing it as a joke. The big joke is Chrysler never fixed it. Idiots like us can easily see the problem, I am sure they could as well. They started building these things in '04 for '05 models. They had '05 till they went out of business in April '09 to fix it and didn't. The outfit that took over Chrysler warrantied the units and even had the vendor build more, but they didn't fix the design either.
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Unread 04-07-2012, 07:36 PM   #2934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRod View Post
I still don't understand how you are supposed to get the whole unit in aligned without using a sharpie. Sure the wheel is in the right spot due to the alignment pin but what's to keep you from dropping it in a tooth off or is it that obvious? I can see how the oil pump key could help but I've had that spin a little just from removing the OPDA. I'm not saying the pin method is flawed, I do fine with a sharpie but usually end up tweaking the OPDA a couple times and removing the neg battery cable to clear codes until I find the sweet spot.
Just saw this and know there were other responses--

The OPDA can be mounted in any position around the clock. It matters not. Of course there are some positions it's physically impossible for the housing to fit as it will hit the engine or the sensor cable is too short ETC. I have mine mounted about 15-20 degrees counterclockwise from stock as getting the oil line to the fitting is too hard otherwise. As long as the holes in the wheel and the housing are lined up when you take it out and put it back in it matters not the position of the housing. You can drop it in on any tooth as long as you can get the holes lined up. I've had mine out many times now and always just turn the engine over till the holes line up. Put it back in with the holes lined up and no issues.

BTW On the new version of the Flow Through mod I am doing soon I'll change the location of the oil line as having the housing moved like it is now makes it hard to take the one cover screw out with my long torx wrench. And if I wanted to service the oil line I can't do it like it is.
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Unread 04-08-2012, 09:50 PM   #2935
CoRubicon
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I finally got my new OPDA modded and installed, it all went smoothly thanks to the instructions in this thread. But I had something odd happen...

When I finished modding the unit I filled the oil cup with oil and spun the shaft a few times, then I set it upright in an improvised holder on my workbench while I pulled the old unit. After I installed the new unit and ran the engine the oil level in the OPDA dropped. I added oil and the level dropped again after running the engine. I opened the cover and I could see oil pooling in the bottom of the sensor housing. I left the cover off, topped off the oil again and started the engine. While watching the sensor I reved the engine up and could see oil coming from the top of the bushing.

Has anybody else seen this? I was a little concerned that oil wouldn't reach the top of the bushing but I guess that's not a problem now.
I assume that the oil will reach a "Happy Level" on it's own and as long as there is a little oil in the bottom of the oil cup all is well.

Comments?

Pictures in a moment...
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Unread 04-08-2012, 09:54 PM   #2936
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The oil cup sets almost at the level of the top of the bushing so it makes sense.
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Mods done: Hurst tee handle, cheap hand throttle, Rokmen Merc front bumper, Warn 9.5 TI winch with 3/8" X 100 worth of Viking yellow rope, DPG OME Ultimate with JKS ACOS up front, Kilby Gas Tank Skid, Kilby Steering Box Skid, Jeep Medic Belly Up, Skidrow Engine Skid, Rockcrusher Diff Skid in the rear, Warn Diff cover in front, , AR Outlaw II's and MTR 12:50/15's, Homemade rear Bumper, Cheap Cobra CB, Puma OBA, Sirius Radio, Locker Defeat, Rockhard cage, Rockmen short corners, homemade tire swing/tailgate hinge affair, Airlift air bags on the rear- - - - - - and more to come!
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Unread 04-08-2012, 09:59 PM   #2937
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Modded OPDA,



Oil in sensor housing,



Modded unit installed,

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Unread 04-08-2012, 10:04 PM   #2938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbob View Post
The oil cup sets almost at the level of the top of the bushing so it makes sense.
That's just it, I don't think the cup is at the level of the top of the bushing. Take a look at the pictures I just posted. It looks like the cup is quite a bit lower than the top of the bushing. Hence my concern about oil not making up to the top of the bushing.
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Unread 04-08-2012, 10:49 PM   #2939
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That's pretty much the way it works. Some of the guys have drilled down from the top of the bushing so the oil will flow back down. I think most have also plugged the holes in the bottom of the housing and sealed the cap so dust doesn't contaminate the oil that flows over the bushing.
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Unread 04-08-2012, 10:57 PM   #2940
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That's just it, I don't think the cup is at the level of the top of the bushing. Take a look at the pictures I just posted. It looks like the cup is quite a bit lower than the top of the bushing. Hence my concern about oil not making up to the top of the bushing.
I wouldn't worry much about it being leaking out the top. Remember, there is no seal there and this probably means the seal at the bottom still works. If the bottom seal is bad the oil cup deal won't work.

I have not had the oil cup deal, but I have stayed in a Holiday Inn. Fill the cup drop by drop and forget it for a week or two. Then put oil back in drop by drop till it's full again. If it takes about the same amount of oil you are golden. Just cause the cup ain't full don't mean there is no oil in the reservoir. You have a spinning shaft there and oil is going to work it's way up and out. But as long as the reservoir retains oil you are good to go. If it doesn'tretain oil that means the seal is shot and you need to go to a grease set-up.
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Mods done: Hurst tee handle, cheap hand throttle, Rokmen Merc front bumper, Warn 9.5 TI winch with 3/8" X 100 worth of Viking yellow rope, DPG OME Ultimate with JKS ACOS up front, Kilby Gas Tank Skid, Kilby Steering Box Skid, Jeep Medic Belly Up, Skidrow Engine Skid, Rockcrusher Diff Skid in the rear, Warn Diff cover in front, , AR Outlaw II's and MTR 12:50/15's, Homemade rear Bumper, Cheap Cobra CB, Puma OBA, Sirius Radio, Locker Defeat, Rockhard cage, Rockmen short corners, homemade tire swing/tailgate hinge affair, Airlift air bags on the rear- - - - - - and more to come!
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