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Unread 09-02-2011, 09:12 PM   #1951
dproctor0715
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My mod. described in post #876 of this thread runs the sensor and tone wheel submersed in oil.
It's been running this way for 9000 + miles.
No problems with the sensor, no codes, no leaks, and only about 28 oz. of extra oil run though the top bushing since final install.
I never did recieve my new OPDA unit (price became too high 350+ and never reordered).
Won't be pulling unit until winter when I'm not working the Jeep so hard.
Sorry so long between updates.
Still like Rub4MyMrs Oil cup idea better than mine.
There was another mod similar to mine and Rubi's.
I'll try to look it up and edit here with that post number.

Edit:

Found that other post. It's post #951 of this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpman55 View Post
i completed my opda mod, tonite and decided to lube the upper bushing with oil. tap the opda with 1/8 npt used a 1/8 x 1/4 brass compression t o 1/4 copper tubing about 10 inches long running straight up with a compression fitting with a 1/8 coupling for small resevoir with a plug.very simple to do. i was nervous about pulling and reistalling the opda but it is real easy.
I think the main point is my sensor hasn't failed because of running submersed in oil.
Did someone else reported an experience where their's did?
So far oil is good.


Last edited by dproctor0715; 09-03-2011 at 02:58 PM.. Reason: add quote from pumpman55
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Unread 09-02-2011, 09:24 PM   #1952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dproctor0715 View Post
My mod. described in post #876 of this thread runs the sensor and tone wheel submersed in oil.
It's been running this way for 9000 + miles.
No problems with the sensor, no codes, no leaks, and only about 28 oz. of extra oil run though the top bushing since final install.
I never did recieve my new OPDA unit (price became too high 350+ and never reordered).
Won't be pulling unit until winter when I'm not working the Jeep so hard.
Sorry so long between updates.
Still like Rub4MyMrs Oil cup idea better than mine.
There was another mod similar to mine and Rubi's.
I'll try to look it up and edit here with that post number.

I think the main point is my sensor hasn't failed because of running submersed in oil.
Did someone else reported an experience where their's did?
So far oil is good.
Interesting. Must've missed that post or forgot (gettin' old!). I'll have to go back and check it out. Do you drive on dirt roads much? If so, you must have it sealed up good or that would be a big mess.
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Unread 09-02-2011, 09:41 PM   #1953
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Went back and looked at your first post and I remember seeing it before but that was the week my dad passed away and my mind was in a pretty good fog. I do remember being surprised no one seemed to notice, or at least didn't comment on it.

How did you mount that pipe? Can't really tell in that picture. It's interesting that the sensor doesn't have any issues being submerged in oil like that. If a guy just filled up the top of the housing with oil, how long do you think that would last before needing to be replenished?
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Unread 09-02-2011, 09:45 PM   #1954
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For the record it's listed in the alternate designs section of the first page. Along with Rubi4MyMrs and you lope.

I'd bet no one commented because it looked pretty complex. Rubi4MyMrs is probably and easier alternative to get similar results.
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Unread 09-02-2011, 09:48 PM   #1955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badtux View Post
Problem is that the top bushing sticks up out of the top of the OPDA, then the sensor disc (that the CPS reads going by) sits against the top of the OPDA bushing. So if you drilled holes to let oil get up there, it'd just spurt all over the inside of the housing and make the sensor quit working. You'd have to literally build some sort of housing , call it a "hat", to go inside the housing under the disc to keep the oil from going all over, with a seal at the top. And you'd also need to cut down the bushing a bit to make room for the seal between the top of the bushing and the bottom of the new "hat". Possible? Sure. Practical? Probably not.
Well not exactly. On page 1 under alternatives there is a reference to dproctor’s approach. It links to post #876 here that deals with oil above the bushing & on the CPS. A lot of work but it is the way he chose. We haven’t heard from him since so I don’t know the long term success.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainwashed2566 View Post
Thanks for the responses guys. Lets say that hypothetically it was possible to make the grooves, cut the bushing (to where the wheel still spins properly) AND seal the top of the bushing. Does anyone think that this would be the permanent solution? The only reason why I think it would not be permanent is because some people are still having lower bushing problems even with the grooves.
Define permanent. There will always be wear issues. The lower bushing has not caused a failure as far as I know. Getting lube to the top bushing seems to prevent or at least significantly reduce the shaft binding (laughing monkey). That is a victory in my book. If the resulting reduction in drag reduces the wear on the gear, that is another win (not sure we know if that is certain yet). 2 out of 3 is pretty good considering what we have to work with.

Oil seems to defy gravity as I have found with my oil cup mod but I don’t think you are going to get it to the top bushing from the bottom with the present housing design. The cut-away of flying_bosun’s unit shows no evidence that oil made it much above the delivery channels let alone to the seal. Also, Lope removed his seal & oil never made it up to the upper bushing although he modified his shaft which may have hindered his effort.

Thanks dproctor. I was busy typing & didn't see your update. Even though I had the oil idea prior to seeing your mod, that gave me the push to try it. dproctor & I PMed a few times & he was helpful especially because my primary concern from the beginning was oil consumption past the seal. Turns out that hasn’t been a problem for me either.
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Unread 09-02-2011, 10:01 PM   #1956
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Oil holes

Quote:Originally Posted by Bigbob Okay. I don't want to go through all 99,000 threads here, is there a write up on drilling out these oil passages? Next time I pull mine I want to look at that. My bottom bushing looked pretty good so I suspect it was getting oil okay, but if the passages are too small I want to repair them. Thanks.
========
For sure, I did not read all that rambling stuff. I did look at all the pics and the oil passages are obvious. Any engineer would have specified these oil passages since that is how oil gets between the two bushings.The smallest bit I have is 1/16" and that was pretty close to the stock hole. I broke it and had to use the next number bit to finish up. Sigh. BTW, The stock hole is not round but is rectangular. And it is part of the pot metal casting. Sloppy casting for sure. Its interesting that the reason there is no lube for the upper bushing is that the design depends on oil between the two bushings to let oil migrate into the upper one. With due respect to the guys that have proposed all kinds of ways to lube the upper bushing I am not sure how this could be engineered any different than stock. Just do the Fog mod and grease it even with the three lube holes. Belt and suspenders is always good.Test your oil holes with a small sewing needle. Smallest diameter & long enough to pass the bushing. No-go means get out the drill. I would drill even if the needle passes, but its an interesting test.PaulWBottom line is drill the lube holes.


Here is a shot of the oil channels with the lower bushing removed (thanks tkki1230).
Originally posted here: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/20...l#post10956388



OIL HOLES:
Ref Wildigger page 1. Look at the pics reproduced here
On one unit we found was 3 passages blocked on one unit and 2 passages blocked on the other. These passages MUST be opened in order to make the unit operate as designed..

The cam position sensor receives oil fro the action of the gear. The oil moves up thru the rectangular passages to the area between the steel bushings. These passages are cast in to the pot metal housing and many are defective and have a rectangular cross section. The oil then migrates to both the lower and upper bushings thru the so called seal. For installation and break-in the designer provided a pocket of oil in fiber at the top of the upper bushing. So far the dissector guys have not found the required oil passage to the upper bushing. Keep looking is must be present or the designer messed up. More likely the manufacturer just left it out or used a casting passage that is improperly made.

The 3 oil passages must be opened for the Cam position sensor to work properly

Further
* The thrust bearing must be located properly and not be modified in any way
· The correct oil must be used for the design to work. No thick oils & no thin oils.
· And API SL oils with at least 1500ppm of ZDDP in the formulation
· What I use is plain on Castrol GTX 10W30 and 5 OZ of ADDP
· MY OPDA/CMP look perfect after 12000 miles.

UPPER BUSHING
We all know that we cannot find an oil passage to the upper bushing, The fix for long life is the FOG MOD everybody that takes the OPDA Aapart must do the mod,

Refer to the pic below to understand the oil flow

THE GEAR ISSUE
Several have reported damaged OPD and Cam gear. Obviously this is a result of lack of lube and /or defective gears. This people should pursue the fixes since if defective the will ruin the opda. Apparently there are a some bad gear issues that galled CMP shafts
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Unread 09-02-2011, 10:03 PM   #1957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi4MyMrs View Post


Define permanent. There will always be wear issues. The lower bushing has not caused a failure as far as I know. Getting lube to the top bushing seems to prevent or at least significantly reduce the shaft binding (laughing monkey). That is a victory in my book. If the resulting reduction in drag reduces the wear on the gear, that is another win (not sure we know if that is certain yet). 2 out of 3 is pretty good considering what we have to work with.

Oil seems to defy gravity as I have found with my oil cup mod but I don’t think you are going to get it to the top bushing from the bottom with the present housing design. The cut-away of flying_bosun’s unit shows no evidence that oil made it much above the delivery channels let alone to the seal. Also, Lope removed his seal & oil never made it up to the upper bushing although he modified his shaft which may have hindered his effort.
Interesting, you would think that oil would spew all over with the seal removal. I guess it is just not enough pressure down there.

And for clarification- my idea of "permanent" on a passenger vehicle engine would be about 150,000 miles w/o maintenance 999/1000 times. I don't think the OPDA has lived up to that standard
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Unread 09-02-2011, 10:09 PM   #1958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
For the record it's listed in the alternate designs section of the first page. Along with Rubi4MyMrs and you lope.

I'd bet no one commented because it looked pretty complex. Rubi4MyMrs is probably and easier alternative to get similar results.
I'd bet that a system like that offers the best lubrication. On the flip side I couldn't live with that under my hood
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Unread 09-02-2011, 10:26 PM   #1959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainwashed2566 View Post
And for clarification- my idea of "permanent" on a passenger vehicle engine would be about 150,000 miles w/o maintenance 999/1000 times. I don't think the OPDA has lived up to that standard
I totally agree. My point was that while the OPDAs HAVE NOT lived up to that standard & I doubt that they ever will as designed, at least we can improve our chances of getting reasonable life from them.
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Unread 09-02-2011, 10:43 PM   #1960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
For the record it's listed in the alternate designs section of the first page
I guess I need to check that first page every once in a while, you do a great job keeping it updated willy.
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Unread 09-03-2011, 12:44 PM   #1961
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Hey lope.
There's no mess, no oil on outside of anything.
This is still true from my original post (except maybe the amount of oil usage through the oiler).:

I have completely sealed the OPDA cup against leakage with black RTV around the CPS sensor, over the threaded plugs added to the 2 holes in the bottom of the cup, and between the cap and the top of the cup.

During operation the cup is full of oil, all of the internals are completely submerged in oil (no codes yet) and the tone wheel is spinning in oil. The system loses 1-2 ounces of oil weekly (40miles/day @ 2200 rpm) internally, I think this must push past the factory seal. I can't find any signs of external leakage. I believe the spinning of the tone wheel in the oil may create some backpressure on the oil in the cup and push it past the seal when the engine is spun at higher rpms. I've noticed no drain down operating under 1500 rpm or while engine is not running.
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Unread 09-03-2011, 01:42 PM   #1962
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Quote:
How did you mount that pipe? Can't really tell in that picture.
On the underneath side there's a rubberized pipe hanger run through the lower hose clamp that's wrapped around the pipe after the elbow. That pipe hanger's holes are lined up with the hole on the strap that holds the dipstick tube to the block. There's a bolt through that hole and the pipe hangers holes. That holds the bottom of the pipe in place. On the top side there's a strap made from another rubberized pipe hanger, that I straightened and re-bent to fit between the top hose clamp and one of the tappet cover mounting bolts. I fitted one more re-bent rubberized pipe hanger under the hose clamp that's below that one and positioned it to keep the pipe from ever rubbing on the coil packs, just in case. All of this could have been made simpler with a smaller reservoir. If I can ever get a camera to it, I'll take some pictures of the mounting. It's not a rigid mounting, it allows vibration.

Quote:
It's interesting that the sensor doesn't have any issues being submerged in oil like that.
It wasn't my original plan to have the sensor submerged. It just worked out that way because of lack of foresight on my part, I guess. And an added blessing is that no sensor issues have shown up yet. I did seal the sensor into the housing really well w/black RTV to keep oil from coming out. So, only the front of the sensor feels the oil, if you will.

Quote:
If a guy just filled up the top of the housing with oil, how long do you think that would last before needing to be replenished?
I think if you just filled up the top of the housing with oil (after sealing all the holes in the sides and bottom of it of course) it will only last/do any good until the oil gets below the top of the upper bushing. Actually the oil gets into the top of the housing on mine because it climbs the shaft from the middle area of the upper bushing where it gets its oil supply.

Last edited by dproctor0715; 09-03-2011 at 01:58 PM..
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Unread 09-03-2011, 02:49 PM   #1963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainwashed2566 View Post
On the flip side I couldn't live with that under my hood
awe shucks you're just pokin' fun
it's pretty under there
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Unread 09-03-2011, 03:44 PM   #1964
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Quote:
If a guy just filled up the top of the housing with oil, how long do you think that would last before needing to be replenished?

That gives me an idea. If you removed the CPS & the shaft, you could drill the bushing through the CPS hole (angling it to the housing “floor”). Then seal the whole thing like dproctor did then fill the top of the housing with oil. That would lube the bushing as long as there was oil in there & you wouldn’t have to worry about oil spilling over the top of the bushing (it would just recirculate itself). If you didn’t fill the housing too full you hopefully would not need to seal the cap making it easy to check the oil level. If your seal is good that amount of oil should last a long time. My very early ’05 seal is doing great holding oil.

Thoughts?
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Unread 09-03-2011, 04:22 PM   #1965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dproctor0715 View Post
Actually the oil gets into the top of the housing on mine because it climbs the shaft from the middle area of the upper bushing where it gets its oil supply.
Forgive me for asking but I've looked through this thread searching for your mod write-up and I'm coming up empty; if your mod is detailed here, could you provide a post #, please? The links in the alternate design section just bring me to the most recent page of posts.

As to the quote above, do you mean to say that pressure forces oil from area between the two bushings past the seal and into (and past) the upper bushing?
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