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Unread 08-31-2011, 05:00 PM   #1936
Slugger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biffgnar View Post
How many OPDAs do you think are floating around out there in the parts market at any time? Not trying to take a side in this argument, but I wouldn't think its that many. Yes, probably more than the numbers Shakey's quoting from the polls but I doubt we are talking about thousands of orders to create a backorder situation.
I would probably guess less than 100 were put in inventory during their original production run. Around the end of the year last year I recall the local dealership showing around 350 on back order.No I wouldn't guess 1000's, but I'd bet they have sold 999 of them.I don't want to look back through all the post on this, but I recall a dealership with 2 that they wouldn't sell.

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Unread 08-31-2011, 10:41 PM   #1937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakey View Post
First, I appreciate the work that goes into this thread. I am contributing by noting that the sky is not falling for all 2005-2006 owners regarding the OPDA. I'd submit that I, and tens of thousands of others, have no issues with it. Did you know that people read this thread and then have an irrational fear of their OPDA going out, or choose not to buy a 2005-2006 Wrangler based on this thread alone (hurting your resale value)? I'm trying to balance the fear-mongering, I'm sorry if you don't understand how that's useful. I've also never stooped to personal insults, but you let them fly at will.

I show Jeep sold ~80,000 Wranglers in 2006, and ~70,000 in 2005. So our baseline is 150,000 2005-2006 Wranglers potentially impacted by the OPDA.

So I spent lunch reading:


47 votes and 12 are doing something about it. Not that they have problems, just that they are doing something about it. That's 0.008%.



That's for 2006 owners only, sadly I can't vote. So that means I can't see the vast amount of data collected. The thread is 13 posts long.



75 total votes, 23 said no issue, 21 don't know. So from that, we're at 0.02% of all 05-06 Wranglers having this issue. And, 0.029% of those that may have inspected, found no problem, or they don't even know.



That's not what your data shows.

I contrast this thread with the thread about gas tanks overfilling. They have a lot of data pointing to that being a major issue. They even have a system set up to report that data to Jeep (which I've done) in the hopes of getting a recall. Isn't the OPDA potentially a larger issue? If so, then where's the similar effort to do something about it?
All of the above doesn't amount to jack.

Here's a proven, solid, documented fact:

The ODPA upper bushing is not receiving any lubrication from the factory grease channel. It is impossible for that upper bushing to get any grease from anywhere in that unit. THIS IS THE ONLY FACT THAT REALLY MATTERS

The upper bushing is made of steel, along with the shaft. If running that OPDA steel shaft unlubricated on those steel bushings is okay with you, then go for it.

For those of you out there think that this is not a good idea, please read thru the beginning of this thread very carefully. There is a lot of good info and research done by Willy, Fog, and many others, that may help prevent any type of binding that comes from running the OPDA shaft dry in that upper steel bushing.
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Unread 08-31-2011, 11:47 PM   #1938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakey View Post

A lot of hurt feelings in this thread. It's a shame no one has really made the effort to collect the data to determine if this is even worth messing with, even among our small community. You clearly spend lots more time here and are emotionally invested in this topic, I nominate you for the job.
I suggest you pull yours and look at it. I wager it's failing. 100% of the ones I have looked at were failing. Yeah, I only looked at 2 of them, but both were failing and both had under 20K miles on them. Both were '06 models. There is a difference between failing and failed. But failing will lead to failure. When you look at the numbers of Jeeps sold in '05 and '06 and then look at the small number of members here with '05 or '06 models and check on what they discovered when they pulled their OPDA's and found scored shafts and top bushings or worse yet a already worn pinion gear due to improper bushing lube then I'd say the % of failing is high.
I very much appreciate this forum and this thread and the input I received.
Did I fix the 2 I looked at? No, but I did do a band-aid repair that may allow it to go longer. It is a good band-aid though. If I had a little time-off I'd come up with a fix. The fix is to eliminate the poor design of no lube to the top bushing. Simple as that. Automobiles have had OPDA's for a long time in the form of something called a distributor. Those were lubricated by the engine oil working it's way up the shaft. A fail safe system that was around for almost 100 years. Some knucklehead engineer decided to go against the grain on the Jeep unit in '05 for what reason nobody will ever know.
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Unread 09-01-2011, 08:04 AM   #1939
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two OPDAs

Agree with Big bob. They all need to be looked at.
Case1: 06 LJ Rubwith 5k miles. Bottom shaft at the bushing galled & scored with heavy damage. Top of the shaft at the bushing, shaft was blue. No oil paths found for the lower bushing. The fix was polish the shaft and drill the three lower oil passages and add the zirk & special grease per the Fog Mod instructions. Shaft ended up with slight play.
Case 2: 06 LJ Rub with 20k miles. OPDA was in perfect condition at the top & bottom bushing. Top was oily with no detectable play. Shaft looked new. This one had been replaced before I bought it. It had silicone instead of the stock seal. It also had a different clamp which is spring loaded due to its arch. The attachment bolt was not real tight and on re install I used about the same torque. This unit had one lower oil hole that would pass a 1/16" drill. The other two holes were plugged or non existant. Drilled out all three lower oil holes and did the Fog mod to add the zirk and the special grease.

Both motors were dated early 05.

My conclusion is some OPDAs may survive for quite a few miles as reported if they have at least one lower oil passage. Not as good as the original designers fix with three holes.
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Unread 09-01-2011, 08:06 AM   #1940
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The intent of the thread is to provide info for those who want to do something. If you choose not to contribute positively no one is forcing you. I don't see the point of arguing that it's not worth doing in a thread 100+ pages long of members trying to do something.

There is no fear-mongering, but instead links to incidents both minor and major and useful info to help prevent a possible problem.

To the point of numbers, my personal interest stemmed from a binding and likely failure. When investigating the causes I found a thread that was very long and sporadic with information. This is a summary of information found on several threads about the same problem with several reports of complete engine failure. That is enough for me.

I would agree with other members that stirring up the pot saying the numbers don't warrant a thread or that if it ain't broke don't fix it, is pointless in this thread. Read the first page. If you don't agree, you can pretty much assume what the rest of the thread will contain.

We've had a long stretch of good feedback and it's a little sad to see pointless arguing. I blame Rubi4MyMrs. You should have never said how nice this thread was with all the positive feedback. You jinxed it.
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Unread 09-01-2011, 08:24 AM   #1941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwmac View Post
The fix was polish the shaft and drill the three lower oil passages This unit had one lower oil hole that would pass a 1/16" drill. The other two holes were plugged or non existant. Drilled out all three lower oil holes
Okay. I don't want to go through all 99,000 threads here, is there a write up on drilling out these oil passages? Next time I pull mine I want to look at that. My bottom bushing looked pretty good so I suspect it was getting oil okay, but if the passages are too small I want to repair them. Thanks.
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Unread 09-01-2011, 08:44 AM   #1942
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Originally Posted by Bigbob View Post
Okay. I don't want to go through all 99,000 threads here, is there a write up on drilling out these oil passages? Next time I pull mine I want to look at that. My bottom bushing looked pretty good so I suspect it was getting oil okay, but if the passages are too small I want to repair them. Thanks.
========
For sure, I did not read all thatrambling stuff. I did look at all the pics and the oil passages are obvious. Any engineer would have specified these oil passages since that is how oil gets between the two bushings.
The samllest bit I have is 1/16" and that was pretty close to the stock hole. I broke it and had to use the next number bit to finish up. Sigh. BTW, The stock hole is not round but is rectangular. And it is part of the pot metal casting. Sloppy casting for sure. Its interesting that the reason there is no lube for the upper bushing is that the design depends on oil between the two bushings to let oil migrate into the upper one. With due respect to the guys that have proposed all kinds of ways to lube the upper bushing I am not sure how this could be engineered any different than stock. Just do the Fog mod and grease it even with the three lube holes. Belt and suspenders is always good.
Test your oil holes with a small sewing needle. Smallest diameter & long enough to pass the bushing. No-go means get out the drill. I would drill even if the needle passes, but its an interesting test.
PaulW

BTW, Willydigger, The oil hole mod should be on the first page of the Fog mod thread. I did a quick look and saw nothing??
PaulW
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Unread 09-02-2011, 12:45 PM   #1943
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Updated first page with flying_bosun dissection pics. Thanks!

pwmac, as you know PM sent for more info about the Oil Hole Mod mentioned above.
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Unread 09-02-2011, 04:33 PM   #1944
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now I'm really confused. How does the oil migrate past the lower bushing at all? Those pics make it look like there is no clearance just to get to the upper seal let alone past the lower bushing. What am I missing?
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Unread 09-02-2011, 04:47 PM   #1945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainwashed2566
now I'm really confused. How does the oil migrate past the lower bushing at all? Those pics make it look like there is no clearance just to get to the upper seal let alone past the lower bushing. What am I missing?
Look more closely at the dissection pics in section 4. There are channels between the cast shaft housing and the bushing
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Unread 09-02-2011, 05:08 PM   #1946
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Originally Posted by flying_bosun View Post
Look more closely at the dissection pics in section 4. There are channels between the cast shaft housing and the bushing
Okay thanks. I wasn't looking hard enough. Would it be possible to cut those grooves in the upper bushing and then seal the opda at the top? I'm not a machinist, would it even be possible without trying to forge a new housing??
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Unread 09-02-2011, 05:17 PM   #1947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainwashed2566

Okay thanks. I wasn't looking hard enough. Would it be possible to cut those grooves in the upper bushing and then seal the opda at the top? I'm not a machinist, would it even be possible without trying to forge a new housing??
Possible? Probably. Practical or economically reasonable? Not likely
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Unread 09-02-2011, 05:25 PM   #1948
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Originally Posted by Brainwashed2566 View Post
Okay thanks. I wasn't looking hard enough. Would it be possible to cut those grooves in the upper bushing and then seal the opda at the top?
Problem is that the top bushing sticks up out of the top of the OPDA, then the sensor disc (that the CPS reads going by) sits against the top of the OPDA bushing. So if you drilled holes to let oil get up there, it'd just spurt all over the inside of the housing and make the sensor quit working. You'd have to literally build some sort of housing , call it a "hat", to go inside the housing under the disc to keep the oil from going all over, with a seal at the top. And you'd also need to cut down the bushing a bit to make room for the seal between the top of the bushing and the bottom of the new "hat". Possible? Sure. Practical? Probably not.
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Unread 09-02-2011, 05:38 PM   #1949
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Thanks for the responses guys. Lets say that hypothetically it was possible to make the grooves, cut the bushing (to where the wheel still spins properly) AND seal the top of the bushing. Does anyone think that this would be the permanent solution? The only reason why I think it would not be permanent is because some people are still having lower bushing problems even with the grooves.
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Unread 09-02-2011, 06:51 PM   #1950
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Originally Posted by Brainwashed2566 View Post
Thanks for the responses guys. Lets say that hypothetically it was possible to make the grooves, cut the bushing (to where the wheel still spins properly) AND seal the top of the bushing. Does anyone think that this would be the permanent solution? The only reason why I think it would not be permanent is because some people are still having lower bushing problems even with the grooves.
Yes. Absolutely yes. The fix is to make the unit similar to a 1956 distributor drive. But how to do it is the question.

It don't take much oil to lube this thing. It seldom reaches over 2000-2500 RPM, it turns 1/2 engine speed. It normally runs at 1000-1500 rpm.

It also does not take much for a seal. Very low to no pressure there.

I have thought about machining a groove in the shaft at the top of the top bushing and putting an o-ring there to seal it. That could work, or the o-ring could come apart and cause major issues.

The guy that figures this out has first dibs on kicking the butt of the engineer that designed it!
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