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Unread 07-23-2011, 07:08 PM   #1696
Rubi4MyMrs
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Tkki,

Didn’t you block that oil return because it lined up with the position that the oil hole needed to be in? IIRC the preferred location was actually where one of the thrust washer tabs is. Regardless, the flat needs to be positioned across from the cam gear to maximize the oil splash, right?

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Unread 07-23-2011, 07:19 PM   #1697
tkki1230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi4MyMrs View Post
Tkki,

Didnít you block that oil return because it lined up with the position that the oil hole needed to be in? IIRC the preferred location was actually where one of the thrust washer tabs is. Regardless, the flat needs to be positioned across from the cam gear to maximize the oil splash, right?
Yes. The flat goes right over the area of the groove. That's why I couldn't go too deep with it. Here's a shot of one of my older units.




And yes, the flat needs to face the block. My unit ended up like this:




For those of you who have already put in a grease zerk for the Fogmod, this position might put it out of reach. You might have to install another one.
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Unread 07-24-2011, 09:05 AM   #1698
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Let's not confuse the FogMod with the fix to the cam gear. The FogMod is there for the upper bushing binding. The upper bushing will bind. The FogMod will add lubrication that will prolong the life of the OPDA and hopefully reduce strain on the gears.

All the stuff tkki is doing is for fun. For those of you who are coming in late, tkki has friends in low places and he's a bit anal with improvements. Like me.

The FogMod will help with a proven problem, the other stuff is just curiosity at this point.

I'd really love to see some pics of other distributors for comparison to the 05 unit. I've see the one that lope messed with and the 04 unit and both had an oil groove for the lower bushing. I wonder if that is a requirement. Also with regards to the lower bushing mod, why can't you trim it and leave the housing in the stock location? You're drilling through the bushing correct?

I think if you are going to duplicate the design of the 04 CPS you need to include the oil groove. I'm having trouble understanding the concept. With the 04 CPS the oil goes in above the lower bushing and the oil groove forces it between the shaft and bushing.

With the mod tkki made (please correct me if I'm wrong), the oil goes through the bushing? Otherwise up the existing oil port and then hopefully down through the shaft and bushing? Either way I think the groove plays an important roll of generating a path of least resistance for the oil to travel.
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Unread 07-24-2011, 11:57 AM   #1699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkki1230 View Post
Speed,

See post 1692. Save your bucks and do it yourself. It's not that hard.

The high temp silicone will last for the life of the engine. It's not going anywhere.

For grease, I'm using Mobil 28.
Tkki, I appreciate your concern for my money, but I don't have the tools, space, or patience for this type of work. I will be paying someone to perform these mods for me on my behalf. I just would prefer someone do it that is familiar with exactly what I want and has done it before....

That leads me to your machinist... But if need be, I will print out your pictures and instructions and go fishing in my area for a machinist who will take on the task. They will probably charge me twice as much, having never done it before, and will probably miss a detail or two... Trust me, I took a bath on the first OPDA I had modified, and it took forever to get back from the machinist!

Anyone else out there ready to take on this task? Willy, do you have someone you can send shafts out to for hardening? Would you be willing to try to replicate the flat spot at the lower bushing with the oiling hole?
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Unread 07-24-2011, 01:18 PM   #1700
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phreak, at this point I can't support doing all those mods. I have a machinist that I could ask, but the only mod I would recommend is the FogMod. I can do that for you, but the other stuff will require a machinist and I don't think it's worth it. I think you're looking at a couple hundred bucks. The lower bushing area, even with the hardening and the oil bath didn't stop the contact. Like tkki said, it was free and worth a shot.

The FogMod is for the binding and heat on the upper bushing. Areas we know will cause trouble and that can be fixed with the mod. For those without tools or the confidence to work with the aluminum, PM me.
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Unread 07-24-2011, 02:16 PM   #1701
tkki1230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
I think if you are going to duplicate the design of the 04 CPS you need to include the oil groove. I'm having trouble understanding the concept. With the 04 CPS the oil goes in above the lower bushing and the oil groove forces it between the shaft and bushing.

With the mod tkki made (please correct me if I'm wrong), the oil goes through the bushing? Otherwise up the existing oil port and then hopefully down through the shaft and bushing? Either way I think the groove plays an important roll of generating a path of least resistance for the oil to travel.
The way the older type shaft has the groove moving the oil downwards would be optimal. You could also groove the bushing to do the same thing.

The way I have it now, there the two holes opening up into the bushing, like the FOGMOD. There is no "opening" to move larger volumes of lubrication down that shaft. But I think that the amount of oil that goes up the flat spot is significant. Proof of that is I reinstalled the unit the other day, but I forgot the gasket. There was a lot of oil leaking out of the flange area. I was quite surprised.

Speed, I just talked with my machinist, and he says he can do the job if you want, but he warned me about the costs. The machining part is cheap, especially if you don't pull out the bushings. But the Shaft hardening is expensive, and that he cannot do that in house. I think the company that he uses is KC Jones Plating company, but there are many firms that now offer nitriding service. He suggests that you take the unit to a local machinist, and show him the pictures of how and where you want the flat spot done. All they do is lock it into a Vice, and take off a small amount with a milling machine. It only takes 10 minutes to do.

But I would listen to Willy. None of what I'm doing is "optimal." I'm just fooling around. There is obviously a better way. And I would wait until that is found until you started major modifications to your unit.

The hard part is to have owners out there guinea pig their Motors/OPDA units for research. All of the work I've done so far, along with the cost of the units that I've bought, which exceed $1K, is getting past the point of reasonable return on investment.
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Unread 07-24-2011, 02:17 PM   #1702
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I remember someone posting there would be a TSB out this month and a new OPDA, does anyone have an update from Chrysler on a TSB?

I saw the note that a company was asked to start making new opda's. I am inclined to wait if its within a month otherwise I need to do the fogmod.
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Unread 07-24-2011, 02:35 PM   #1703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
Let's not confuse the FogMod with the fix to the cam gear. The FogMod is there for the upper bushing binding. The upper bushing will bind. The FogMod will add lubrication that will prolong the life of the OPDA and hopefully reduce strain on the gears.

All the stuff tkki is doing is for fun. For those of you who are coming in late, tkki has friends in low places and he's a bit anal with improvements. Like me.

The FogMod will help with a proven problem, the other stuff is just curiosity at this point.

I'd really love to see some pics of other distributors for comparison to the 05 unit. I've see the one that lope messed with and the 04 unit and both had an oil groove for the lower bushing. I wonder if that is a requirement. Also with regards to the lower bushing mod, why can't you trim it and leave the housing in the stock location? You're drilling through the bushing correct?

I think if you are going to duplicate the design of the 04 CPS you need to include the oil groove. I'm having trouble understanding the concept. With the 04 CPS the oil goes in above the lower bushing and the oil groove forces it between the shaft and bushing.

With the mod tkki made (please correct me if I'm wrong), the oil goes through the bushing? Otherwise up the existing oil port and then hopefully down through the shaft and bushing? Either way I think the groove plays an important roll of generating a path of least resistance for the oil to travel.
Willy, youíre right about the FOGMod being to help the top bushing but Tkki was having lower bushing wear & that is one area that can affect the gear engagement depth. So I think it is a little more than for fun. Satisfy curiosity sure. Iím curious about this & glad he is too & willing to share. I could never be able to do what he has done. Anyone wanting to try this could do so without adding much time or work to their FOGMod project. You already have the drill out & could grind the flat area with a small bench grinder if you were careful & happen to have one (or know someone who does).

Ideally the hole in the flat would be above the lower bushing for maximum effect. That was apparently the case with the earlier model. The later ones (í05-í06) have a longer bushing making that impossible (see page 1 post #4). Drilling through the bushing is the only option. (If the flat can be extended high enough to get the hole above the bushing then I will stand corrected.) Sure a groove in the shaft would help distribute the oil but that is an option beyond most of us. I find on my oil cup mod that the oil travels through the (top) bushing & even up above the oil level in the cup & over the top of the bushing. Based on that, I think Tkkiís method makes sense. If you are worried about evacuating the oil, consider this; worst case the area above the bushing fills up & no more splashing oil can enter the cavity. Since it is not pressurized, it can enter or not. If not it will simply return to where it came from. No harm done. Too much oil, is that a problem?

In the non-modded OPDA Iím not sure if the oil is supposed to travel up the 3 outside channels & down the (ungrooved) shaft or up the shaft & down the channels. I think it has been assumed it is the former. If that is the case then why does the thrust washer block most of those channels? Didnít someone try notching the washer at the channels for better flow? Either way, the oil must travel between the shaft & bushing (up or down). After all, that is the desired effect - lubricating the shaft/bushing.

Anyway, you guys BOTH have done a ton of work on this & it is appreciated.
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Unread 07-24-2011, 03:14 PM   #1704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverTJMike View Post
I remember someone posting there would be a TSB out this month and a new OPDA, does anyone have an update from Chrysler on a TSB?

I saw the note that a company was asked to start making new opda's. I am inclined to wait if its within a month otherwise I need to do the fogmod.
Do the FogMod. You might be waiting forever on Chrysler or Crown. Crown said it was several months out for their design. I haven't heard anything more from Skinny Pedal.
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Unread 07-24-2011, 04:30 PM   #1705
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I replaced my OPDA yesterday, with a unit I ordered and had modified by Fred (aka willydigger). Thanks Fred for the mod and all the work you have done on this problem. And, thanks for the detailed instructions for removing and installing an OPDA, made it really easy.

My 06 Rubi has just rolled over 10K miles, but I am the 2nd owner, so I cannot say how many "engine hours" were on this jeep before I bought it. I suspect the first owner trailered it and drove trails local to his home, so that is why the mileage is so low for an 06.

My OPDA shows wear on the drive gear. I am glad I went ahead and put in a fogmod OPDA to try to get ahead of the issue and avoid (or put off) installing a new cam.
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Unread 07-24-2011, 05:44 PM   #1706
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If I was really nuts, and I really wanted to fix this, the one thing that I would change would be the size of the hole in the block where the OPDA sits. It is just too narrow to allow the use of a sealed bearing. If it was opened up about .25 of an inch, then it would be fairly easy to fabricate a new unit with sealed bearings. The way it is right now, you could only fit a sealed bearing in the top part of the OPDA. The bottom would still need to be a bushing. But if there was just a little more room, you could fit a sealed bearing in there.

The way it is right now, you could fit roller bearings into the lower part of the unit, but you still have the problem of getting lubrication to the shaft and bearings.

I actually considered doing it at one point. How's that for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder?
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Unread 07-24-2011, 05:58 PM   #1707
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I finally put my new, modified OPDA in today. It was the first time I had both my new one and the original on the bench together to compare.

Original is a Rev B......new one is the same Rev E everyone gets now.

The new one has far less up/down play compared to the old. On the other hand, the old one spun far more freely than the new one.....so much so that I didn't like putting the new one in.

The shaft on my old one has enough wear on it though that you can feel a ridge right below the bottom of where the upper bushing rides. There is scoring in the area of the lower bushing but it's not as deep.

I'm going to install the zerk and grease up the old one and think about putting the gear from the new one on it because it spins so much easier! The only thing keeping me from doing it is the up and down play which I think is what put my wear pattern lower on the driven gear than optimal.

I guess it truly is a crapshoot as far as the binding at the top bushing goes. My LJ is approaching 60k miles at this point with no hint of the binding problem obviously.
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Unread 07-24-2011, 06:05 PM   #1708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cologc46 View Post
I replaced my OPDA yesterday, with a unit I ordered and had modified by Fred (aka willydigger). Thanks Fred for the mod and all the work you have done on this problem. And, thanks for the detailed instructions for removing and installing an OPDA, made it really easy.

My 06 Rubi has just rolled over 10K miles, but I am the 2nd owner, so I cannot say how many "engine hours" were on this jeep before I bought it. I suspect the first owner trailered it and drove trails local to his home, so that is why the mileage is so low for an 06.

My OPDA shows wear on the drive gear. I am glad I went ahead and put in a fogmod OPDA to try to get ahead of the issue and avoid (or put off) installing a new cam.
Wow....my gear at 60k miles looks very much like yours at 10k. I wonder if the first major bit of wear happens to these gears really early and then it sort of tapers off?
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Unread 07-24-2011, 06:35 PM   #1709
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I have been trying to keep up with this thread, but it moves fast. I'll try not to ask any questions that can be found on the first page.

I checked my OPDA gear over a year ago when I thought it was just an issue of a bad gear. I finally pulled it all apart today.

My thinking comes from having the 7 year 70,000 mile extended warranty. If I have a problem in the next 2 years or 20,000 miles I want it to be covered, and I have been afraid that having the Fog Mod done they will fight and make something up to not cover it.

Todays findings.

I think the gear looks good. I hope I am correct.





Next to the new one I have just in case.



I spun both shafts and they felt the same.

This was in the top of the set up.



Shaft pulled out.





Wiped it down with a shop towel. I'm guessing that is the factory grease?



Upper half



Lower half





I'd like to hear your adivce. I'm getting ready for a trip to the Rubicon. I have a spare I can FOG Mod and put on. I have been worried about putting a new gear on the old cam after reading on here, but I don't think it's to bad? If I did that I could keep the old one and put it on the Jeep if I have problems down the road?
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Unread 07-24-2011, 07:09 PM   #1710
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The more I look back through this thread I am thinking about just FOG Mod'ing the OPDA I am running now. What do you think?
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