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Unread 07-22-2011, 11:47 PM   #1681
tkki1230
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I don't know if I'm getting confused, but shouldn't the critical measurement that we should be looking at be the distance of the thrust washer to the cam gear/Oil Pump? The first thing that happens when the motor starts turning is that the distributor gear gets forced flush against that washer. If the OPDA is too shallow or too deep, that would affect the position of both the gear mesh and the slot depth. I'm thinking end play doesn't make any difference. Even that simple paper gasket between the block and the OPDA would make a significant difference if it was missing.

Or am I just a plain idiot? It's been a long day for me, and I'm kind of tired.

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Unread 07-23-2011, 12:25 AM   #1682
tkki1230
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Ok, I finally got around to taking some pictures of my OPDA. This unit has a lightened wheel, a hardened shaft, the FOGMOD, and a modified lower end. The lower end has a flat spot that was machined in, and two holes were drilled in to act as oil passages. Here is a shot of the lower part of the unit.



The red that you see is high temp silicone that I used to seal off the oil channel in the unit. That was important because I didn't want oil traveling up the flat spot and going into the hole, only to escape down that oil channel instead of going into the center of the unit. Even though the pic sucks, you can tell that there is a lot of oil in there. When I pulled the shaft out, there was a butt load of grease in the upper portion thanks to the FOGMOD, and the lower portion was wet with motor oil. So, the good news is that the oil hole did its job. And there is no need to drill two holes. I think just the lower one is fine.

Here is a pic of the unit showing the two holes.




Here is a shot of the shaft. Since it was hardened, it's easy to see where the wear points are.




It's not nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be. Here is a shot of the area by the upper bushing




Here is a shot of the area by the lower bushing



The wear is very minor, and there are no grooves like before. The wear is very even, unlike the rough wear the unit experienced before the FOGMOD and the oil hole. When I touch the surface, I actually cannot feel any wear. It's that smooth.


And here is the money shot. Pattern looks good.





Right now, the unit has about 5500 miles on it. I've decided to run the unit for another oil change cycle to see how it does. I'm using Mobil TD and Mobil 28 grease. I have a feeling that it'll hold up without any major wear patterns. One thing I'm pretty sure of, there is so much damn lubrication in the unit - It will never sieze or bind up ever again.
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Unread 07-23-2011, 09:30 AM   #1683
lope
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Is it just me (or maybe the picture) or does the shaft look like it's wearing better in the lower bushing area than the upper? Looks smoother. That gear wear pattern looks good though Tkki.
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Unread 07-23-2011, 10:31 AM   #1684
speed_phreak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkki1230 View Post
The red that you see is high temp silicone that I used to seal off the oil channel in the unit. That was important because I didn't want oil traveling up the flat spot and going into the hole, only to escape down that oil channel instead of going into the center of the unit. the wear points are.
First of all thanks for the update and the pics!

I think this is very promising work. I think these mods together are our best bet. How much would it cost me to get a new unit modified in the same fashion?

hardened shaft
fog mod, with zerk 180 degrees from factory fill hole
lower bushing oil hole, with flatening

any idea?

Is there a better way to seal off the oil channels in the bottom? Will the high temp silicon last? One more question, what grease are you using in the upper bushing tkki?
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Unread 07-23-2011, 11:25 AM   #1685
unlimitedlj
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Its things like this that shy me away from Chrysler each day. There's no way I would pay any thing more than maybe 15k for a new four door Jeep rubicon or not. I don't think they are built worth a crap and as long as unions countinue to run this country everything american will get ****tier and ****tier. Me I love my Jeep and would do whatever it takes to keep her good but, I would not buy a new Jeep only an older one. Knock on wood mine has been doing great with 85k I haven't pulled my OPDA but, honestly I don't want to screw up a good thing especially if mine gets to 200k with no troubles. Even though I do feel it is a design flaw I also think the Valvoline VR1 has saved me thus far.
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Unread 07-23-2011, 12:35 PM   #1686
Zetto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speed_phreak View Post
First of all thanks for the update and the pics!

I think this is very promising work. I think these mods together are our best bet. How much would it cost me to get a new unit modified in the same fashion?

hardened shaft
fog mod, with zerk 180 degrees from factory fill hole
lower bushing oil hole, with flatening

any idea?

Is there a better way to seal off the oil channels in the bottom? Will the high temp silicon last? One more question, what grease are you using in the upper bushing tkki?
I say we ship tkki1230 machinist a batch of brand new OPDA and have him do the same modifications.
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Unread 07-23-2011, 01:18 PM   #1687
willydigger
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Thanks for the updated tkki.

Everyone keep in mind the mileage on this vehicle is 5,500. I would guess that a brand new unmodified OPDA will have similar results at 5,500. I don't think any of the improvements are hurting, but I'm skeptical if they helping.

Quick question tkki, how does the oil return from the lower bushing? On the 2004 model the shaft had a groove. Does it just fit through the tolerances of the bushing and shaft?
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Unread 07-23-2011, 02:35 PM   #1688
Rubi4MyMrs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkki1230 View Post
I don't know if I'm getting confused, but shouldn't the critical measurement that we should be looking at be the distance of the thrust washer to the cam gear/Oil Pump? The first thing that happens when the motor starts turning is that the distributor gear gets forced flush against that washer. If the OPDA is too shallow or too deep, that would affect the position of both the gear mesh and the slot depth. I'm thinking end play doesn't make any difference. Even that simple paper gasket between the block and the OPDA would make a significant difference if it was missing.

Or am I just a plain idiot? It's been a long day for me, and I'm kind of tired.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
So that would effectively lessen the amount of depth in the oil pump slot? Is that recommended? Has anyone done this?

Hey Crown, make a replacement gear for this and we'll gladly pay $40.

What a hassle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJJP77 View Post
Per the document that Chrysler put out for the early '05 vehicles, you can adjust endplay (within reason, of course) by either placing a socket that is larger than the shaft on top of the tone wheel and smacking it with a soft-faced mallet (to reduce endplay) with the bottom of the shaft (the oil pump end) on a firm surface or by carefully chucking the body of the OPDA in a vise and hitting the top of the shaft itself with a mallet to increase endplay.
You guys got it. End play does NOT affect the engagement depth. It does NOT affect the contact area. It will NOT change the contact position of the gears. It will only change the position of the wheel relative to the CPS, the area of the shaft relative to the bushings & slot engagement by the amount of the change in end play.

By my calculations, in my case using the Crown gear will increase the end play about 0.048” which will raise the wheel that much more than it currently is. Whether that would be too much was the question I had but assumed it might be. I was afraid the wheel would be too far from thee CPS & lose its signal.

Thanks TJJP77 for that info. I remember that Lope had removed his wheel but did not know it was “adjustable”. I assumed there was a stop position limiting the wheel position. Since there is not, I should be able to use the Crown gear without modification. We will see.

As far as slot engagement goes I don’t really think 0.048” is that significant.


It has been posted here before but worthwhile reading. Check out this link: http://www.classicinlines.com/DizzyGear.asp
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Unread 07-23-2011, 02:45 PM   #1689
GMBNT42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkki1230 View Post
Ok, I finally got around to taking some pictures of my OPDA. This unit has a lightened wheel, a hardened shaft, the FOGMOD, and a modified lower end. The lower end has a flat spot that was machined in, and two holes were drilled in to act as oil passages. Here is a shot of the lower part of the unit.



The red that you see is high temp silicone that I used to seal off the oil channel in the unit. That was important because I didn't want oil traveling up the flat spot and going into the hole, only to escape down that oil channel instead of going into the center of the unit. Even though the pic sucks, you can tell that there is a lot of oil in there. When I pulled the shaft out, there was a butt load of grease in the upper portion thanks to the FOGMOD, and the lower portion was wet with motor oil. So, the good news is that the oil hole did its job. And there is no need to drill two holes. I think just the lower one is fine.

Here is a pic of the unit showing the two holes.




Here is a shot of the shaft. Since it was hardened, it's easy to see where the wear points are.




It's not nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be. Here is a shot of the area by the upper bushing




Here is a shot of the area by the lower bushing



The wear is very minor, and there are no grooves like before. The wear is very even, unlike the rough wear the unit experienced before the FOGMOD and the oil hole. When I touch the surface, I actually cannot feel any wear. It's that smooth.


And here is the money shot. Pattern looks good.





Right now, the unit has about 5500 miles on it. I've decided to run the unit for another oil change cycle to see how it does. I'm using Mobil TD and Mobil 28 grease. I have a feeling that it'll hold up without any major wear patterns. One thing I'm pretty sure of, there is so much damn lubrication in the unit - It will never sieze or bind up ever again.
Honestly with only 5500 miles on it, it still doesnt look to be good, or like the "mods" did anything worthwhile to extend longevity of the piece. THe OPDA I took out had 90k and has yet to throw a code. And it probably looked just like yours does now back when it also only had 5k on it.

My conclusion is that these mods are pretty much worthless. I've just accepted that this is a weak design point on the engine. THankfully at least, parts are cheap and the 4.0L engine is a very easy engine(novice class) to work on.

I just ordered up a new cam and lifter set. But what Im thinking about doing is to just put the old OPDA back in, let it run its course until it throws a code and then put in the new OPDA with the camshaft and lifters. And hopefully by then Crown has an upgraded replacement OPDA available by then anyway and I can just sell off the new OPDA I bought or just keep it as a spare.
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Unread 07-23-2011, 05:39 PM   #1690
tkki1230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMBNT42 View Post
Honestly with only 5500 miles on it, it still doesnt look to be good, or like the "mods" did anything worthwhile to extend longevity of the piece. THe OPDA I took out had 90k and has yet to throw a code. And it probably looked just like yours does now back when it also only had 5k on it.

My conclusion is that these mods are pretty much worthless. I've just accepted that this is a weak design point on the engine. THankfully at least, parts are cheap and the 4.0L engine is a very easy engine(novice class) to work on.
You are absolutely right. The OPDA is a POS, and there are no mods that will save it, from what I can see. It's like everyone's 05-06 4.0's all have HIV or something. But that is not the issue.

For those of you who haven't yet experienced the unit seizing up or doing the howling monkey thing, I really don't think you understand the importance of these modifications, especially the FOGMOD. Priority number one is to save the cam gear. If you run the OPDA without the modifications, IT WILL start to bind, and it will put undue stress on both gears.

Look at the unit. THERE IS NO WAY THAT THE FACTORY GREASE CAN REACH THE SHAFT. EVEN IF THE GREASE CHANNEL IS PACKED FULL, THERE IS NOWHERE FOR IT TO GO. IT IS SEALED IN PLACE BY THE BUSHING, AND THE BUSHING IS SOLID. IT IS EFFED UP FROM THE START. I'VE CHECKED A BUNCH OF UNITS TO CONFIRM THIS, EVEN TO THE POINT OF PULLING OUT THE BUSHINGS FROM THE UNITS. WHOEVER DESIGNED THE OPDA SHOULD BE SHOT.

Do your motor and cam gear a favor, and at least do the FOGMOD. And if you haven't checked your unit, pull it out asap.

All of the other mods that I did, like lightening the wheel, and hardening the shaft, probably helped a little, but it's not worth the money. I just did it because it was free. The FOGMOD can be done dirt cheap. And what does it hurt? Everyone has nothing to lose by doing it.
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Unread 07-23-2011, 05:43 PM   #1691
tkki1230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
Thanks for the updated tkki.

Everyone keep in mind the mileage on this vehicle is 5,500. I would guess that a brand new unmodified OPDA will have similar results at 5,500. I don't think any of the improvements are hurting, but I'm skeptical if they helping.

Quick question tkki, how does the oil return from the lower bushing? On the 2004 model the shaft had a groove. Does it just fit through the tolerances of the bushing and shaft?
Willy,

Those oil grooves behind the lower bushing, I only sealed one of them. The other 2 are still open. When the oil reaches to the top of the bushing, it is free to travel back down those 2 grooves. But even with those grooves open, I have a feeling that that oil just travels back down between the shaft and bushing.
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Unread 07-23-2011, 05:46 PM   #1692
tkki1230
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Originally Posted by Zetto View Post
I say we ship tkki1230 machinist a batch of brand new OPDA and have him do the same modifications.
In my opinion, the only mods needed are the FOGMOD, and the flat spot/lubrication hole on the lower part of the unit. Both of those mods can be done with regular power tools. Lightening the wheel and hardening the shaft was just a luxury for me, since it was free. I don't think it really helped that much.

Save your money!!!
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Unread 07-23-2011, 05:47 PM   #1693
tkki1230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unlimitedlj View Post
Its things like this that shy me away from Chrysler each day. There's no way I would pay any thing more than maybe 15k for a new four door Jeep rubicon or not. I don't think they are built worth a crap and as long as unions countinue to run this country everything american will get ****tier and ****tier. Me I love my Jeep and would do whatever it takes to keep her good but, I would not buy a new Jeep only an older one. Knock on wood mine has been doing great with 85k I haven't pulled my OPDA but, honestly I don't want to screw up a good thing especially if mine gets to 200k with no troubles. Even though I do feel it is a design flaw I also think the Valvoline VR1 has saved me thus far.
I gotta tell you, that OPDA in stock form is not a good thing.
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Unread 07-23-2011, 05:51 PM   #1694
tkki1230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speed_phreak View Post
First of all thanks for the update and the pics!

I think this is very promising work. I think these mods together are our best bet. How much would it cost me to get a new unit modified in the same fashion?

hardened shaft
fog mod, with zerk 180 degrees from factory fill hole
lower bushing oil hole, with flatening

any idea?

Is there a better way to seal off the oil channels in the bottom? Will the high temp silicon last? One more question, what grease are you using in the upper bushing tkki?
Speed,

See post 1692. Save your bucks and do it yourself. It's not that hard.

The high temp silicone will last for the life of the engine. It's not going anywhere.

For grease, I'm using Mobil 28.
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Unread 07-23-2011, 05:54 PM   #1695
tkki1230
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Originally Posted by lope View Post
Is it just me (or maybe the picture) or does the shaft look like it's wearing better in the lower bushing area than the upper? Looks smoother. That gear wear pattern looks good though Tkki.
lope,

You're right, the shaft looks better in the lower bushing area. The wear patch is much smaller than before. I really believe that the oil hole worked.
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