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Unread 07-16-2011, 04:12 PM   #1621
GMBNT42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi4MyMrs View Post
Are you saying that it has the tube to spray oil on the cam gear?
If we are talking about part # M167HVS from HESCO its the exact same one as the HV Melling unit.

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Unread 07-16-2011, 05:57 PM   #1622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMBNT42 View Post
If we are talking about part # M167HVS from HESCO its the exact same one as the HV Melling unit.
Actually no. from the Hesco site:http://www.hesco.us/shop.asp?action=details&inventoryID=188025&catId=

PN:M167HVT Price: $239.00

"This is a high volume blue printed oil pump with the addition of a oil spray tube that sprays directly on the cam and distributor gears. This should eliminate the damage to the distributor gear due to the re-formulation of motor oils that is plaguing the Jeep world. The baffle in the oil pan will need to be trimmed because high volume oil pumps have a larger pump body. The oil pump pick up and mounting gasket are included. Fits all 1987-2006 4.0L engines and all 1986-2000 2.5L Jeep engines."


Even more money.

BTW did you find a service manual?
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Unread 07-16-2011, 06:47 PM   #1623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi4MyMrs View Post
Actually no. from the Hesco site:http://www.hesco.us/shop.asp?action=details&inventoryID=188025&catId=

PN:M167HVT Price: $239.00

"This is a high volume blue printed oil pump with the addition of a oil spray tube that sprays directly on the cam and distributor gears. This should eliminate the damage to the distributor gear due to the re-formulation of motor oils that is plaguing the Jeep world. The baffle in the oil pan will need to be trimmed because high volume oil pumps have a larger pump body. The oil pump pick up and mounting gasket are included. Fits all 1987-2006 4.0L engines and all 1986-2000 2.5L Jeep engines."


Even more money.

BTW did you find a service manual?
Yeah, its the exact same oil pump as the one I listed, with a $70 premium for a 10 cent spray tube added on, LOL! Rediculous, LOL.

And yep, picked up the CD "manual".
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Unread 07-16-2011, 07:15 PM   #1624
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I can comment on the Hesco oil pump, I bought one and installed it along with a new modded OPDA about a year ago.. I bought the one with the auxilary oil tube and pointed it directly at the OPDA.

I pulled my OPDA last week and still show signs of uneven gear wear. At this point it, I suppose it would have to be because of cam wear. The only scoring on the shaft was at the lower bushing....

In order for me to be free from this ordeal, I would need to replace cam/lifters, and OPDA. Next time, in addition to modding the top bushing, I would be sure to add the oiling hole for the lower bushing as someone else did (tiki?).

In short: I think the Heso oil pump would be most effective if you add an oiling hole to the bottom bushing...
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Unread 07-16-2011, 07:38 PM   #1625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speed_phreak View Post
I can comment on the Hesco oil pump, I bought one and installed it along with a new modded OPDA about a year ago.. I bought the one with the auxilary oil tube and pointed it directly at the OPDA.

I pulled my OPDA last week and still show signs of uneven gear wear. At this point it, I suppose it would have to be because of cam wear. The only scoring on the shaft was at the lower bushing....

In order for me to be free from this ordeal, I would need to replace cam/lifters, and OPDA. Next time, in addition to modding the top bushing, I would be sure to add the oiling hole for the lower bushing as someone else did (tiki?).

In short: I think the Heso oil pump would be most effective if you add an oiling hole to the bottom bushing...
Thanks for the update. You are the first to give a report on that pump, I believe. I'm not surprised. I don't think many of us thought that the excessive gear wear was from lack of oil. Did your original OPDA also have that same uneven wear? How many miles & any photos? Most agree that the gear will wear faster if the cam isn't replaced but just how much life can we expect from a gear only replacement has been my question.

Yes tkki has been working on that. And maybe this: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/20...l#post11718458
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Unread 07-16-2011, 08:37 PM   #1626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speed_phreak View Post
I can comment on the Hesco oil pump, I bought one and installed it along with a new modded OPDA about a year ago.. I bought the one with the auxilary oil tube and pointed it directly at the OPDA.

I pulled my OPDA last week and still show signs of uneven gear wear. At this point it, I suppose it would have to be because of cam wear. The only scoring on the shaft was at the lower bushing....
...
Thanks for the update. I'll update the Q&A with a like to the last couple pages.

So the upper bushing looked good? Can you also confirm oil choice and grease used?
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Unread 07-17-2011, 11:59 AM   #1627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi4MyMrs View Post
Thanks for the update. You are the first to give a report on that pump, I believe. I'm not surprised. I don't think many of us thought that the excessive gear wear was from lack of oil. Did your original OPDA also have that same uneven wear? How many miles & any photos? Most agree that the gear will wear faster if the cam isn't replaced but just how much life can we expect from a gear only replacement has been my question.

Yes tkki has been working on that. And maybe this: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/20...l#post11718458
My original OPDA did have excessive gear wear. That is why I replaced it with a new modded one. I did this about a year ago at about 29,000mi. I now have 38,000 on the jeep. I didn't take new pictures and the new wear wasn't terrible, but a couple teeth showed more wear than the others. I don't know that the hesco oil pump made the wear any less, but I also certainly don't think it created any additional wear.

I now agree that you are not going to fix this wear issue until you replace the cam. I thought I saw wear on my cam and hoped it wasn't that bad, but I can now say that it will keep chewing threw gears until it is replaced.

In my case, I did notice when I originally pulled the OPDA the gear seemed very dry. This time when I pulled it, there was oil on it. I'm not so sure that lack of oil wasn't part of the original issue, but my cam is too far out of spec at this point....

Top bushing needs direct lube, bottom bushing needs direct lube, gear needs direct lube.

BTW - I originally had when the machinist put in my modded OPDA, one of those short sticks of clearish lithium grease. When I pulled it, after a year, it was bone dry, but showed little to no wear. I just filled it with aeroshell 33s and will fill again at 6 months.

This is the post from Tkki that I find relevant: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/20...l#post11217596

My thoughts of a true fix:
FOGMOD
TKKI Oil hole
Hesco pump with aux oiling tube to make sure the gear and Tkki's oil hole get properly lubed.
Don't forget the new cam!

Or maybe Chrysler has something better for us? holding my breath....

Last edited by speed_phreak; 07-17-2011 at 12:35 PM.. Reason: added link to tkkis post
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Unread 07-17-2011, 08:40 PM   #1628
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I'm about to install my new and modified OBDA. I have removed and installed a few OBDA's and I have used the sharpie marker method. So far, I've had no trouble getting them back in.

For the new one, I'm sorta worried about getting it back in the same place as the old one.

What is the prevailing wisdom for replacing them? Is putting the motor to TDC the best choice or would transferring the marks from the old to the new one be good enough?

If I don't get it right, what is the going rate for the dealer to set it?
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Unread 07-17-2011, 08:45 PM   #1629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnorma1 View Post
I'm about to install my new and modified OBDA. I have removed and installed a few OBDA's and I have used the sharpie marker method. So far, I've had no trouble getting them back in.

For the new one, I'm sorta worried about getting it back in the same place as the old one.

What is the prevailing wisdom for replacing them? Is putting the motor to TDC the best choice or would transferring the marks from the old to the new one be good enough?

If I don't get it right, what is the going rate for the dealer to set it?
you really have to set it back to TDC to install a new one. transferring match marks from one to the other wont be close enough and likely it will throw a DTC
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Unread 07-17-2011, 08:56 PM   #1630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnorma1
I'm about to install my new and modified OBDA. I have removed and installed a few OBDA's and I have used the sharpie marker method. So far, I've had no trouble getting them back in.

For the new one, I'm sorta worried about getting it back in the same place as the old one.

What is the prevailing wisdom for replacing them? Is putting the motor to TDC the best choice or would transferring the marks from the old to the new one be good enough?

If I don't get it right, what is the going rate for the dealer to set it?
What is this oBda people keep referring to? Oil bump drive assembly? It runs off the cam and powers your oil bump? Does it only work with stock bumps? Do they make one for fuel bumps? What about locker bumps?
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Unread 07-17-2011, 09:05 PM   #1631
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Originally Posted by bonza View Post
you really have to set it back to TDC to install a new one. transferring match marks from one to the other wont be close enough and likely it will throw a DTC
It's probably safer with TDC. That said, I matched marks. No problems. I also matched marks for another member here, no problems. There is a fear that this is a difficult thing to do. It isn't. Trust in your ability.
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Unread 07-17-2011, 10:26 PM   #1632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkki1230 View Post
I just pulled my unit after 3000 miles to check and see if any of the modifications that I did recently made any difference. My priority was to cut down on the friction and wear on the lower bushing, as that was where I was having problems with my OPDA. For those of you who are not familiar with the modification that I did, I cut a gap in the lower unit, and I drilled a hole to allow oil inside (see pic)




Here is a pic of the shaft. Hmmm....something tells me that I may have under estimated how much side load that shaft is actually under lol. There is still scoring going on in the lower bushing area.





Was this because oil is still not getting into the unit? Inspecting inside of the OPDA, it is really hard to tell if the oil was actually getting in there. I'm going to try one more thing before I move on to something else. I grabbed another brand new unit, and I added a twist to the modification. I machined out the flat spot, but I drilled out two holes instead of one. The holes are larger than the first mod, and the additional hole (lower one) actually clears the block. I measured the thickness of the block, and there is about 3/8ths of an inch of the OPDA that sticks out past the block. The cam gear has a straight shot at this exposed lower area and hole, so it is a sure thing that oil will get into that lower bushing.





I am also going to try a different shaft. I sent out some shafts to get treated with a Salt Bath Nitro Carburization process. The suface of the shaft is now hardened quite a bit over the stock spec. The machine shop tells me it's probably around Rockwell 45-55. The shaft is now jet black in color. Here's a pic:




I'll probably only need a couple of hundred miles to see if the Shaft hardening made any difference. I have a feeling that it won't. In the meantime, the machinist is making me a set of bronze bushings. I tried to get Oilite, but because of the messed up sizes on the shaft and OPDA, there are no off the shelf parts that you can just order-you would have to custom make them. I've thought about roller or ball bearings, but it's just too small in there. I'll probably end up running bronze bushings with the hardened shaft, along with the Fogmod.

For those of you who think I'm insane, doing all of this useless testing and spending all of this money, I'm not. I own a rather large building complex, and one of my tenants is a Machine Shop. My Machinist friend is doing all of this stuff for free. And by the way, all of this BS with the OPDA is driving him nuts too.
tkki any updates on your mods?
how has the hardened shaft held up?
can you verify that oil is now getting into the lower bushing with your holes?
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Unread 07-18-2011, 07:07 AM   #1633
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Originally Posted by bonza View Post
you really have to set it back to TDC to install a new one. transferring match marks from one to the other wont be close enough and likely it will throw a DTC
I put my new one in matching up the marks exactly and it worked fine. While I agree its safest to find TDC, I took pictures and marked up the old one, matched up the new one exactly and got it installed correctly the first try.
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Unread 07-18-2011, 10:30 AM   #1634
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Reinspected mine last Fri, at appx 7700 after dealer repl. Couple teeth do show more wear, top bushing area is retaining oil that I manually placed on a prev teardown 2-3x back.
My thought on this is I'm just facing slow cam/gear deterioration due to previous wear with the original OPDA, which may or may not have been dry from the factory and low ZDDP in the oil from git go
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Unread 07-18-2011, 10:39 AM   #1635
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PICS!

There will be gear wear. The OPDA gear is supposed to wear. The wear area should be short on the tooth.

Chutta, how did you get oil on the upper bushing?
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