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Unread 07-12-2011, 07:21 PM   #1591
Benderff
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Just wanted to thank Willydigger for doing all this work, and keeping up on this. I just donated $10.00 towards a membership upgrade. Who wants to say thanks also?





If you all are a bunch of tight wad's I'll do the whole thing, but come on reward the guys effort for helping us all.

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Unread 07-12-2011, 07:37 PM   #1592
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I just wanted to publicly thank you. Also to all who have contributed. I feel and have always felt like I'm an organizer of information that I get from the group as a whole. It is a really great feeling of appreciation and gratitude. That's as mushy as I'll get!
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Unread 07-12-2011, 07:46 PM   #1593
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Here is a repost of pic on the first page showing the stock 2004 CPS and the 2005 OPDA. The gears are identical. The aftermarket OEM CPS units use a different roll pin size. We need to find a source for the stock gear or convince Crown to build one.



Here is the aftermarket Dorman gear with the much smaller roll pin hole.



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Unread 07-12-2011, 09:37 PM   #1594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger

Here is the aftermarket Dorman gear with the much smaller roll pin hole.
I know that gear has to be case hardened at least. I bet it's tons of fun drilling that out with a high speed drill bit. Maybe if I go this route, I can find a carbide drill floating around.

The crown gear is a little more of center than the OME gear? But has the same hole size? Right?
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Unread 07-12-2011, 10:39 PM   #1595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06RubiconBlue View Post
I know that gear has to be case hardened at least. I bet it's tons of fun drilling that out with a high speed drill bit. Maybe if I go this route, I can find a carbide drill floating around.

The crown gear is a little more of center than the OME gear? But has the same hole size? Right?
The Crown gear definitely has the same 3/16" hole. I don't think it is that hard to drill since the gears including the earlier pre '04 OEM ones come with only one hole & have to be through drilled to match the "off center" shaft hole. The E05 replacement kits came with a bit for that process. TJJP77 could verify if that was just a standard bit, I believe.
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Unread 07-13-2011, 05:04 PM   #1596
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Quote:
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Updated/cleaned up the Q&A section. It was a little weird. I tried to separate things into main topics and I added links for some answers. Turns out the gear question was already referenced in the Q&A. I included links to several images of the crown gear and the 2004 aftermarket CPS.

Please do me a favor and offer up any other questions that aren't covered or maybe should be clarified.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
Also I need some results! The last update was back in April. Anyone have any pics to offer? FogMod, alternate Mod? I'm really curious about Rubi4MyMrs and the oil lube.
Willy, I just re-read page 1 Q&A. Looks good!

On page 1 Q&A “2. Will I get a warning if the OPDA is about to fail? Will I get a code? Is this happening to all Jeeps?” you should also link to post #1588 here by flying_bosun if he is OK with it. Also you should keep a copy handy for all of the times you answer that question to newcomers to this thread.

BTW, did you find my 1200 mile report? It is post #1443
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Unread 07-14-2011, 08:12 AM   #1597
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I updated the first page with both post links. One under the warning of failure in the Q&A and another in the Alternate Design for your oil cup set up. I'd like to get some pics when you do pull yours to include for a visual reference.
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Unread 07-14-2011, 09:38 AM   #1598
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Wouldn't a cobalt drill bit be better for this than a carbide bit...??? Coblat is used in the aviation industry when having to drill thru either stainless steel or titanium...
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Unread 07-14-2011, 10:53 AM   #1599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
I updated the first page with both post links. One under the warning of failure in the Q&A and another in the Alternate Design for your oil cup set up. I'd like to get some pics when you do pull yours to include for a visual reference.
Looks good. I thought the flying_bosun post was good because even though he had a warning it was very short before leading to major failure. Good reason for everyone to check theirs.

What pics do you want from mine?
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Unread 07-14-2011, 11:26 AM   #1600
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Originally Posted by Rubi4MyMrs View Post
Looks good. I thought the flying_bosun post was good because even though he had a warning it was very short before leading to major failure. Good reason for everyone to check theirs.

What pics do you want from mine?
Agreed. I have a link to a thread in the very first post were there was a complete failure.

I'd like to focus on the upper bushing since that is the area the FogMod and your oil cup is targeting. I think Sweeney made an adjustment relating to clearance issues so I'd like to get some feedback from him with his results. I don't have a lot of info regarding clearance yet, but if it really is a problem I'd like to include it.

My measurements seem very close for both units. I don't know how many thousandths you need, but neither the 05 or 04 Dorman had much difference in tolerance. I have noticed that some OPDA's that I've modded have been tighter than others, but I assumed that was a difference between new and old.
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Unread 07-14-2011, 04:56 PM   #1601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
Agreed. I have a link to a thread in the very first post were there was a complete failure.

I'd like to focus on the upper bushing since that is the area the FogMod and your oil cup is targeting. I think Sweeney made an adjustment relating to clearance issues so I'd like to get some feedback from him with his results. I don't have a lot of info regarding clearance yet, but if it really is a problem I'd like to include it.

My measurements seem very close for both units. I don't know how many thousandths you need, but neither the 05 or 04 Dorman had much difference in tolerance. I have noticed that some OPDA's that I've modded have been tighter than others, but I assumed that was a difference between new and old.
Yes, it is hard to draw conclusions on clearance issues from older (used) units. They seem to wear differently as we see some issues with top bushings others with bottom bushing wear, others just have excessive gear wear. Some are tight while others spin freely. Are all new ones even the same? Only the factory can grab 100 new units & evaluate the clearance differences (if any) between them since some survive while others fail.

As to proper clearances, that depends on several factors. Bushing & shaft materials & type of lubrication come to mind. Thermal qualities (expansion) & operating temperature ranges come into play. Viscosity of the intended lubricant also must be considered. Not knowing all these details means we can only guess. Most of the units I’ve seen (photos of) show signs of excessive heat, in some cases extreme heat. Lack of proper lubrication can definitely account for that. At that point the design clearances go out the window. Tkki has access to a machine shop & in discussions with him he tells me he has done a lot of testing but they are inconclusive as to the real cause for failure.

Shipping new OPDAs with dry bushings is just wrong. Even if the so called grease in the reservoir could somehow get to the shaft, how long would that take? And how much damage caused. Can you imagine building an engine & not pre lubing the bearings? By the time oil gets there, it’s too late.

As far as Sweeney goes, in his post #1547 he talks about adding clearance which I agree with but he doesn’t mention if he FOGModded his OPDA after that. Several people have mentioned cleaning up or dressing the shafts but it seems more about repairing previous damage than adding clearance. Adding clearance only takes you so far. For example, if you lose oil pressure & drive far enough, no clearances will save your engine. The top bushing still needs lubrication of some kind. (IMHO). The reason I decided to try oil was posted here back in March in post #835 & #874. So far, so good but I have to say that using grease probably requires less attention. I will be pulling mine in about 3-4 weeks & report with photos then as well as fitting a Crown gear.
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Unread 07-14-2011, 07:29 PM   #1602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benderff View Post
Just wanted to thank Willydigger for doing all this work, and keeping up on this. I just donated $10.00 towards a membership upgrade. Who wants to say thanks also?
...
If you all are a bunch of tight wad's I'll do the whole thing, but come on reward the guys effort for helping us all.
A quick interruption in OPDA tech. I have to say thanks again to Benderff and Rubi4Us for the membership contribution. It is very humbling and I can't express the gratitude that I feel. It is nice to feel the appreciation and you have gone above and beyond. I can't thank you enough.
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Unread 07-14-2011, 07:42 PM   #1603
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Originally Posted by Rubi4MyMrs View Post
...

As to proper clearances, that depends on several factors. Bushing & shaft materials & type of lubrication come to mind. Thermal qualities (expansion) & operating temperature ranges come into play. Viscosity of the intended lubricant also must be considered. Not knowing all these details means we can only guess. Most of the units I’ve seen (photos of) show signs of excessive heat, in some cases extreme heat. Lack of proper lubrication can definitely account for that. At that point the design clearances go out the window. Tkki has access to a machine shop & in discussions with him he tells me he has done a lot of testing but they are inconclusive as to the real cause for failure.

Shipping new OPDAs with dry bushings is just wrong.

...The top bushing still needs lubrication of some kind. (IMHO). The reason I decided to try oil was posted here back in March in post #835 & #874. So far, so good but I have to say that using grease probably requires less attention. I will be pulling mine in about 3-4 weeks & report with photos then as well as fitting a Crown gear.
All the different variables are what makes it challenging. Which one is the main problem? Guessing is the most frustrating part and the main reason why boards like this one help narrow it down.

With regards to shipping dry, the last two units that I've received for others have had an oil film. Not much but something. The upper seal should have wiped the shaft clean, but the OPDA I did earlier this week had a film for the upper section. I can't remember well enough to say all the new batch OPDA's have some lubrication, but a couple did.

Rubi your link for 874 is the same as 835. I like the oil cup method a lot. I think it's cheaper since you eliminate the Aeroshell grease and I agree that oil would be better. Adding a couple squirts of oil to the cup every oil change isn't major maintenance. Any lube at this point is better than nothing. My only reservation, and it's a big one, is the need for the seal. I think over time the seal will fail. As a result of scoring the shaft or just wear on the seal itself. Maybe just paranoid.

I am really looking forward to your results. If they are positive and FogModder's want to give it a try, I worked up a parts list for easy conversion using the 1/4-28 zerk tap. Now to find the link!

Found it HERE. Also made a link under the oil cup on the first page.
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Unread 07-14-2011, 08:28 PM   #1604
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Rubi your link for 874 is the same as 835.
Willy, thanks. It's corrected now. I looked at it 3 times & still got it wrong.
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Unread 07-15-2011, 11:58 AM   #1605
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Hey guys, I got a question, I just recieved my new OEM OPDA today along with a new top end gasket set and just got my head back from the machine shop(decked,cleaned,magnafluxed, new valve installed etc).

Anyway, I put in a new OEM oil pump only about 1k miles ago, but a friend has a new Melling "high volume" oil pump he will sell me for 20 bucks as its not needed for his project. Would it be a good idea to buy and install this oil pump and do you think it would help keep the new OPDA from wearing prematurely? Thoughts?
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