2005-06 Jeep OPDA_CPS_Distributor Failure - Page 106 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Wrangler Forums > TJ Wrangler Technical Forum > 2005-06 Jeep OPDA_CPS_Distributor Failure

NEW!! HMF 50"-52" light bar mounting brackets!! Introducing MONSTALINERô UV Permanent DIY Roll On Bed LineYear End Clearance Sale! Save 20%

Reply
Unread 07-11-2011, 02:20 PM   #1576
element981
Registered User
2005 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger
Anyway long story short, I have the start-up tick that others were describing. I'll be going back to 5w40 for the next change. The synthetic VR1 was 10w30.
So you will no longer be using the VR1?

__________________
Chris
2005 LJ Rubicon w/Savvy Under Armor
Jarhead Jeep Club member #17
Colorado Jeep Club member #119
July 14, 2008
RIP Danny Dupre SSgt/USMC
element981 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 07-11-2011, 02:46 PM   #1577
Rubi4MyMrs
Tks 4 the upgrade Blaine
 
Rubi4MyMrs's Avatar
2005 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Trails of, Nevada
Posts: 2,571
Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
The hole for the crown gear is at a different height than the gear from the OPDA. So if you install it using the OPDA shaft hole the gear will not be in the same location. I haven't seen this as a fact, but it's been reported in the original cam thread.

The hole in the 04 CPS uses a smaller roll pin on some models. Tkki reports his 04 gear being a direct swap. The 04 CPS I purchased used a smaller roll pin. You can open those holes and used the existing shaft hole in the 05 OPDA.

With regards to the gear size, the OPDA gear looks smaller from the image. You are right about the speed though so they should share the same revolutions. I'll edit my posts so others don't get the wrong idea. Thanks for the clarity.

I don't doubt clearance issue as a factor either. I wouldn't say it is the definitive factory though. I'll mic the bushings I have from the 04 and 05 and see if there is a difference. Something makes me think tkki would have mentioned if there were. I don't recall. I can mic shafts too. I think I have a few spares lying around.
Willy,

You know you are information central & I appreciate that you take all of our input in the spirit it is intended. The reason I questioned the Crown gear info is because I havenít installed it & any new info will be considered. My plan is to drill the gear if the height is not correct for the pre-drilled hole. I do have a drill press so that will be the way I will do it. As for the gear sizes, the cam gear does have a larger diameter. But they both have 13 teeth. The dizzy arrangement is deceptive. You are still correct about the sacrificial aspect of the driven gear (OPDA). Of course that depends on the quality control of the 2 surfaces. Iím not sure where we stand on that given the excessive wear many of us have experienced. Another aspect is by having a larger dia. the teeth on the cam gear are longer than the OPDA gear. That makes for more surface contact area which distributes the wear better than the OPDA gear.

As for the clearance issue, I agree that nothing is definitive yet. No doubt though that lubrication is lacking.

Keep up the excellent work!
Rubi4MyMrs is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 07-11-2011, 02:46 PM   #1578
willydigger
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by element981 View Post
So you will no longer be using the VR1?
Doubt it. The 5w40 is quieter. I can still get it reliably at Walmart for $25 a gallon. I'll hunt for sales as required. Your results may very of course. Not everyone has a start up tick with VR1. It's the same Mopar filter I've always used. I suppose I could have a got a lemon.
__________________
WHODEY
willydigger is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 07-11-2011, 02:47 PM   #1579
unlimitedlj
Senior Member
2005 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: McKinney, Texas
Posts: 557
I would use the conventional VR1 it is 1300 PPM of Phos and 1400 PPM of Zinc its only 4.75 at Napa. Mine purrs with it.
unlimitedlj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 07-11-2011, 02:50 PM   #1580
willydigger
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi4MyMrs View Post
...The reason I questioned the Crown gear info is because I havenít installed it & any new info will be considered. My plan is to drill the gear if the height is not correct for the pre-drilled hole. I do have a drill press so that will be the way I will do it. As for the gear sizes, the cam gear does have a larger diameter. But they both have 13 teeth. The dizzy arrangement is deceptive.
...Another aspect is by having a larger dia. the teeth on the cam gear are longer than the OPDA gear. That makes for more surface contact area which distributes the wear better than the OPDA gear.

As for the clearance issue, I agree that nothing is definitive yet. No doubt though that lubrication is lacking...
I can't comment for certain on the crown gear since I haven't messed with it personally. I'll try to dig up some old comparison shots showing the hole in the gear being different than the gear for the 05 OPDA.

Excellent point on the cam gear teeth surface.
__________________
WHODEY
willydigger is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 07-11-2011, 02:51 PM   #1581
Rubi4MyMrs
Tks 4 the upgrade Blaine
 
Rubi4MyMrs's Avatar
2005 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Trails of, Nevada
Posts: 2,571
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMBNT42 View Post
Yeah the tooth center on the camshaft side looks pretty thick still, a bit of wear, but not much really......I ordered up the OPDA assembly anyway while its a reasonable price($120)and in stock. These things were in the 3-400 range just a few weeks/months back? Holy cr@p I would have had a heart attack at that price
Understand that the new OPDA will have completely dry bushings. They should be lubed or better yet FOGMod it.
Rubi4MyMrs is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 07-11-2011, 03:03 PM   #1582
Rubi4MyMrs
Tks 4 the upgrade Blaine
 
Rubi4MyMrs's Avatar
2005 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Trails of, Nevada
Posts: 2,571
Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
I can't comment for certain on the crown gear since I haven't messed with it personally. I'll try to dig up some old comparison shots showing the hole in the gear being different than the gear for the 05 OPDA.

Excellent point on the cam gear teeth surface.
OK but don't go to any trouble. There seems to be no consistency in these things. When the time comes I'm going to pull the OPDA & give the Crown gear a try. If it requires drilling I will. I know the hole size is the same & Tkki has found the '04 gear to work while some earlier ones have a smaller one so who knows. I'm still monitoring my oil consumption so I'm not sure when I will be pulling it. I will of course report my findings.
Rubi4MyMrs is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 07-11-2011, 03:05 PM   #1583
willydigger
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,570
Found it. In this thread wouldn't you know. I'll have to update the Q&A later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liljpy View Post
Below is a side by side comparison. Note first that the pin holes are off. The difference in pin location is way more than the amount of play between the old gear and the thrust washer. Put another way, there's no way that new gear will fit without modification.



Here's another pic, notice the new gear doesn't have a second hole for the pin to go through...



Below is a pic with the gear pushed up as far as possible to show how little play there is. There's no way the new gear will go far enough up to allow the pin to go in.


Below is a bottom comparison. The picture isn't that great, but you can get a good look at the tooth profile. Note two things here. First, the tips of the teeth on the new gear are thicker than the tips on the old gear. At first I thought maybe the old gear was a bit worn, but it doesn't appear so. I came to that conclusion because the backside of the teeth on the old gear don't make contact with the cam gear and thus, shouldn't be worn. The second thing to note here is that the lip is more rounded over on the inside edge. That's probably not a big deal, but still worth pointing out.



Below is a top comparison. Again, the flash washes things out a bit, but provides us with a good look at the profile.



I also noticed that the new gear fits much, much tighter on the shaft. I got it on about 1/4 of the way and knew if I went further I wouldn't be able to easily pull it off. In fact, I had to heat it with a blow torch to take it off when it was just 1/4 of the way on. This is troubling to say the least!
__________________
WHODEY
willydigger is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 07-11-2011, 03:07 PM   #1584
willydigger
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi4MyMrs View Post
OK but don't go to any trouble. There seems to be no consistency in these things. When the time comes I'm going to pull the OPDA & give the Crown gear a try. If it requires drilling I will. I know the hole size is the same & Tkki has found the '04 gear to work while some earlier ones have a smaller one so who knows. I'm still monitoring my oil consumption so I'm not sure when I will be pulling it. I will of course report my findings.
Tkki's gear from the 04 was factory. The unit I got was a Dorman unit that runs $45 from Rock Auto. Tkki's fit perfectly with no modification, the Dorman required drilling to open the holes, but the height was correct.

The Crown gear hole as pictured about is not useable and a new hole in the gear or shaft has to be drilled.
__________________
WHODEY
willydigger is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 07-11-2011, 03:27 PM   #1585
Rubi4MyMrs
Tks 4 the upgrade Blaine
 
Rubi4MyMrs's Avatar
2005 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Trails of, Nevada
Posts: 2,571
Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
Found it. In this thread wouldn't you know. I'll have to update the Q&A later.
Thanks Willy. I went back to that post & the next couple. It seems that the hole is about 0.010" off. Ironically that is about the same difference I found on my "E05" replacement gear between the 2 sets of holes. Not sure what that means unless the replacement gears were left over '04 gears. Anyway, thanks again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
Tkki's gear from the 04 was factory. The unit I got was a Dorman unit that runs $45 from Rock Auto. Tkki's fit perfectly with no modification, the Dorman required drilling to open the holes, but the height was correct.

The Crown gear hole as pictured about is not useable and a new hole in the gear or shaft has to be drilled.
Yes, I was thinking the smaller hole might have been from the Dorman gear but was not sure.
Rubi4MyMrs is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 07-11-2011, 05:03 PM   #1586
mpotoczny
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Vallejo
Posts: 6
OK, our collective voices have been heard! I'm not saying that this will cause any action, but 'they' know. We came face to face with about a dozen Chrysler Jeep engineers testing the new v6 in JKs on the Rubicon Trail this past weekend. I could not help but throw out a barb about my 05 opda, and 'when are we going to get a fix?' I got 'sorry' and an offer for me to buy a new jeep... I disrespectively declined - something about "its not that there is a problem/design flaw, but rather how it's handled, Jack the price on the unfindable part and still no proper replacement available...' The look on their faces told me they know, and are ashamed.
Does this help/change anything? No. But I thought I would share this for all of you out there who did not have the same opportunity I did to say something directly to the people involved.
mpotoczny is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 07-11-2011, 05:21 PM   #1587
willydigger
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,570
I had an opportunity to get some measurements today. I was working on a FogMod and grabbed some measurements. I also bought a Dorman CPS for an 04 and took some measurements. I couldn't get anything consistent but I took several measurement and would tend to think the median is the closest to accurate.

2005-06 OPDA Measurements:
Shaft 0.531
Bushing 0.533
Gear 0.533

Dorman Aftermarket 2004 CPS Measurements:
Shaft 0.5305
Bushing 0.532 - 0.5315
Gear 0.533

Shaft





Bushing (I could only get the lower, I assume upper is the same?)





Gear






Dorman Shaft





Upper Bushing



Lower Bushing



Gear

__________________
WHODEY
willydigger is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 07-12-2011, 04:36 PM   #1588
flying_bosun
Registered User
2006 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 34*24'N, 119*42'W, SoCal
Posts: 3,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by 06RubiconBlue View Post
Im sure they wont go as far as replacing a cam and lifters but i may get a free OPDA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMBNT42 View Post
Does that mean im stuck flipping the bill?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMBNT42 View Post
Also, the camshaft gear itself looks OK(or at least it doesnt seem to have as much wear on its gear as the gear on the OPDA assembly), but while the engine is apart, how much is a camshaft itself? CHeapest place to get a stock replacement just in case?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMBNT42 View Post

........also do you think I should be replacing the camshaft as well? $180 for an OEM one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMBNT42 View Post
Do you think the camshaft itself is OK?
I hope this post addresses the quotes above and, in turn, can help me decide how to close this story of woe. Forgive the length, please. . .


As with many (but certainly not ALL) of us, my saga began with the dreaded Laughing Monkey. It was there on each cold start up, then went away with a quick rev of the engine. This was Monday, May 9th. I'll spare you the details other than to say that I initially thought it was a bad alternator bearing, tension pulley or idler wheel. When all three had been excluded thru inspection of the former and replacement of the two latter, I had resolved to drive it no more until I could properly diagnose the source. . . after one quick trip to the bank. Then it happened; complete shut down at 65 mph.

For the first time my Rubi was at the wrong end of a winch going onto a trailer to get home. After much hair-pulling, gnashing of teeth, and searching on JF, I recalled a thread I'd briefly read last year about the OPDA. (At the time, I'd said "glad I don't have that problem" and burried my head in the sand.) So I found the thread, pulled the OPDA, and obviously, I found my culprit. Taking advice I'd read in this or another OPDA thread, I spoke to the service writer at the nearest dealer and explained the situation. He hadn't (nor had any of his techs) heard of the problem, but he vowed to push Chrysler on my behalf. So, I brought it to them to replace the OPDA, inspect the cam, and make a formal recommendation. Result: bad OPDA and observed premature cam wear, replaced OPDA, and recommended cam replacement due to probable eminent failure.

I've opened a case with Chrysler, and based on the service writer's insistence, they've agreed to cover a certain percentage of the repairs. I've got two estimates from the service writer for the repair/replacement; one for OEM, and the second for aftermarket. The tech recommends a 505Performace cam. I've talked with Zach at 505 and determined that the Stage 1 Cam kit, which will actually be about 30% less expensive, is what he recommends. Other searching has turned up Hesco as an alternative. Based on what I've learned thus far, I'm inclined to add a few horses with the aftermarket option. [Edit: based on what I've now learned, I will be replacing with OEM]

505's Stage 1 Kit including gasket set is about $413, Hesco's would be about $600, but will require additional machine work (extra labor $) on the head.

Thanks to all, especially Willydigger
__________________
[URL="http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html"][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="3"]Gear-Calculator[/SIZE][/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.stu-offroad.com/siteindex.asp"][COLOR="White"][SIZE="3"]Stu Can Help You[/SIZE][/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.berrysprinter.com/jeepparts.php"][COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"]Part Names and Numbers[/SIZE][/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.wholesalemopar.com/"][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Red"]Dealer Supplied Parts and ask for "Jeep Club" Prices[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL]


[QUOTE=Ron Paul]ďLiberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.Ē
― Ron Paul[/QUOTE]

[CENTER][SIZE="5"]"Did [I]you[/I] exchange your walk-on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?"[/SIZE][/CENTER]
flying_bosun is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 07-12-2011, 07:46 PM   #1589
willydigger
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,570
Updated/cleaned up the Q&A section. It was a little weird. I tried to separate things into main topics and I added links for some answers. Turns out the gear question was already referenced in the Q&A. I included links to several images of the crown gear and the 2004 aftermarket CPS.

Please do me a favor and offer up any other questions that aren't covered or maybe should be clarified.
__________________
WHODEY
willydigger is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 07-12-2011, 08:11 PM   #1590
willydigger
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,570
Also I need some results! The last update was back in April. Anyone have any pics to offer? FogMod, alternate Mod? I'm really curious about Rubi4MyMrs and the oil lube.
__________________
WHODEY
willydigger is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.