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Unread 07-10-2011, 01:47 PM   #1546
willydigger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweeney View Post
I suggest that if you have the unit apart and there is scoring on the shaft you should smooth and reduce the diameter of the shaft with abrasive paper. This is best done on a lathe but a drill will work to spin the shaft.
It was reported at the EJS that the 'known' cause for these failures is binding of the shaft in the bearing due to out of spec shafts.
Sloppy is better than tight in this application.
Whaaa? What's the EJS? So there are known causes?

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Unread 07-10-2011, 02:02 PM   #1547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
Whaaa? What's the EJS? So there are known causes?
Easter Jeep Safari. May have been elsewhere... I have selective memory and most often 'forget' is selected. Anyway, in one of these threads it was mentioned that a talk with a Jeep engineer brought this to light.

Looking at the damage on everyone's OPDAs it's very plausible that it is the root cause. Some have scoring at the upper bearing while others have it at the lower... two different lubrication scenarios with the same type damage. If there is no clearance between the shaft and the bearing there is no room for lubricant and scoring results. This adds the extra load on the gear as well causing the accelerated wear.

I disassembled my original OPDA and it showed the gear wear and scoring on the lower part of the shaft. I cleaned up the scoring and 'sanded' the entire this to remove a few ten thousandths. I then ran it for another few thousand miles, removed it and inspected. I saw no further scoring or gear wear. Admittedly, this is a short test cycle, but, there ya have it.
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Unread 07-10-2011, 02:22 PM   #1548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweeney View Post
Easter Jeep Safari. May have been elsewhere... I have selective memory and most often 'forget' is selected. Anyway, in one of these threads it was mentioned that a talk with a Jeep engineer brought this to light.

Looking at the damage on everyone's OPDAs it's very plausible that it is the root cause. Some have scoring at the upper bearing while others have it at the lower... two different lubrication scenarios with the same type damage. If there is no clearance between the shaft and the bearing there is no room for lubricant and scoring results. This adds the extra load on the gear as well causing the accelerated wear.

I disassembled my original OPDA and it showed the gear wear and scoring on the lower part of the shaft. I cleaned up the scoring and 'sanded' the entire this to remove a few ten thousandths. I then ran it for another few thousand miles, removed it and inspected. I saw no further scoring or gear wear. Admittedly, this is a short test cycle, but, there ya have it.
OK, so cleaning up the shaft in reality is probably all I need to do? Also, I see the link for the "Crown" shaft gear, is there an OEM part # as well for the gear itself? I can get an entire EPDA for $120 right now, but if all I need is the gear and to clean up the shaft Id rather go that route.........

And what type of paper exactly are you using to smooth the shaft, and how is it being attached to a drill?

........also do you think I should be replacing the camshaft as well? $180 for an OEM one, Id rather not do it if I dont have to, but when this 4.0L is put back together I'm hoping it will stay that way for the next 100k..........
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Unread 07-10-2011, 02:29 PM   #1549
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If you replace the cam, you'll need lifters, too.
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Unread 07-10-2011, 02:51 PM   #1550
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I have a 05 LJ Rubicon with 49,xxx mile on it now. I just happened across this thread the other day. I have been out of the Jeeping thing for awhile and now Im really getting back to it. Im glad I found it but very frustrated at the same time. Well I pulled the OPDA yesterday and found no heat scorching or signs of damage to the bearings. I did however find abnormal wear to the drive gear. I took pics but I think I have to have 50 posts to put them up. Im not sure how many miles I have left. This may have been discussed else where in this thread but could I put a 04 Rubicon OPDA and computer into my Jeep and have it run properly? Is there that many differences from 04 to 05? Just trying to brainstorm on a way to get by this, Im not relying on Chrysler.

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Unread 07-10-2011, 02:59 PM   #1551
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Well honestly, unless the wear is really obvious you want be able to know for sure unless you mic it and to tell you the truth if it isn't making any noise and is running good with no codes I woudn't jack with it to much especially if your cam looked pretty good. Engine pressure points will wear more than other parts so don't let that scare you. This OPDA deal is isolated and actually it only affects some units. I'm sure you could do the computer from pre 05 then go with OPDA from that era but, if its working I woudn't try to find something that isn't there until you need too. I use to worry about things like this but, one day realized that unless your having problems with it don't **** with it or you will have more problems than you need. Also taking it out does take it out of sync some you might not notice it but, it won't run as good as it could. You will need to hook a DRB up to it and re sync it back to factory specs.
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Unread 07-10-2011, 03:16 PM   #1552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMBNT42 View Post
OK, so cleaning up the shaft in reality is probably all I need to do? Also, I see the link for the "Crown" shaft gear, is there an OEM part # as well for the gear itself? I can get an entire EPDA for $120 right now, but if all I need is the gear and to clean up the shaft Id rather go that route.........

And what type of paper exactly are you using to smooth the shaft, and how is it being attached to a drill?

........also do you think I should be replacing the camshaft as well? $180 for an OEM one, Id rather not do it if I dont have to, but when this 4.0L is put back together I'm hoping it will stay that way for the next 100k..........
You can mount the shaft in a drill to rotate it while using silicon-carbide paper to dress the shaft. I have a lathe so I mounted the shaft in the lathe. I started with 380 grit then proceeded to 400 and 600 with ATF as a lube. I also cleaned up the gear as best I could. Mine was not as bad as some that have been posted.
I can't say for certain that this is 'the' solution but I feel that it helped. We don't have a large enough sample size or long enough trial period to know.
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Unread 07-10-2011, 03:28 PM   #1553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unlimitedlj View Post
Well honestly, unless the wear is really obvious you want be able to know for sure unless you mic it and to tell you the truth if it isn't making any noise and is running good with no codes I woudn't jack with it to much especially if your cam looked pretty good. Engine pressure points will wear more than other parts so don't let that scare you. This OPDA deal is isolated and actually it only affects some units. I'm sure you could do the computer from pre 05 then go with OPDA from that era but, if its working I woudn't try to find something that isn't there until you need too. I use to worry about things like this but, one day realized that unless your having problems with it don't **** with it or you will have more problems than you need. Also taking it out does take it out of sync some you might not notice it but, it won't run as good as it could. You will need to hook a DRB up to it and re sync it back to factory specs.
Thanks for the info. I did not have any way other than a flashlight and visually inspecting it while the OPDA was out. I have no codes showing right now I just dont want this to fail on me in BFE. Is the dealership the only place that has a DRB or can I go somewhere else to sync it? Thanks for the input.
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Unread 07-10-2011, 03:44 PM   #1554
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The dealer will have it only and that will probably cost close to 100 bucks because automatic hour labor but, if you have a Jeep mechanic you use he could do it for much cheaper.
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Unread 07-10-2011, 03:52 PM   #1555
GMBNT42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweeney View Post
You can mount the shaft in a drill to rotate it while using silicon-carbide paper to dress the shaft. I have a lathe so I mounted the shaft in the lathe. I started with 380 grit then proceeded to 400 and 600 with ATF as a lube. I also cleaned up the gear as best I could. Mine was not as bad as some that have been posted.
I can't say for certain that this is 'the' solution but I feel that it helped. We don't have a large enough sample size or long enough trial period to know.
And the gear itself? is there an OEM part # to buy just that gear and not the entire OPDA assembly? Or is my only option the Crown gear thats specifically made for earlier 4.0L jeep motors?
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Unread 07-10-2011, 04:15 PM   #1556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unlimitedlj View Post
Well honestly, unless the wear is really obvious you want be able to know for sure unless you mic it and to tell you the truth if it isn't making any noise and is running good with no codes I woudn't jack with it to much especially if your cam looked pretty good. Engine pressure points will wear more than other parts so don't let that scare you. This OPDA deal is isolated and actually it only affects some units. I'm sure you could do the computer from pre 05 then go with OPDA from that era but, if its working I woudn't try to find something that isn't there until you need too. I use to worry about things like this but, one day realized that unless your having problems with it don't **** with it or you will have more problems than you need. Also taking it out does take it out of sync some you might not notice it but, it won't run as good as it could. You will need to hook a DRB up to it and re sync it back to factory specs.
150% complete disagree with this advice. The OPDA deal is not completely isolated. We wouldn't have half a dozen threads on multiple boards if this was isolated. Maybe not as extreme as these threads intimate, but I bet all of the guys with blown engines wished they had of seen these threads sooner rather than later. I'd like to get a virtual raise of hands for all the blown engines, how many were gifted with laughing monkey? Maybe I read it wrong, but I can't believe your advice is not to mess with it until it makes noise. By the time you get any codes, it may be too late. There is no reliable pre-warning indicator. Preventative maintenance is the key here. Choose to do it or not, but don't rely on a squeak or code.

With regards to the sync, while 0° might be required for some (perfectionist, not engines), the computers adjustment is good enough to keep your $100 scan tool fee. I've had mine out several times and swapped one using the "sharpie method" (which by most accounts is perhaps the least accurate form of measurement) and I've had zero problems. I refuse to believe I've been lucky that many times especially considering I'm a Bengals fan and an Orioles fan.

If you don't want to spend a lot of money try your luck with the existing OPDA and a new gear. I don't recommend it. You don't know the damage to the bushings and OPDA's (plural not isolated) have failed and destroyed engines with lower mileage. Wait the extra few days it takes to get a new one and install it. If you don't want to bother with the FogMod, at least tear it down and lube the shaft. It's $120 for a new unit. How much for a new engine?

With regards to the clearance issue, this is the first I'm hearing of it. The first time in this thread or any thread. I don't doubt anyone's intentions, maybe I'm the one who's in the dark. If there was an admission from anyone with a reputable position on this issue that clearance was a known reason I'm pretty sure we would have heard about it. Has anyone else heard that clearance is a known issue? Known issues are the main reason I question the "alleged" Crown, Skinny Pedal, Chrysler fixes. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'd love to see the info and I'd gladly update the main page.
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Unread 07-10-2011, 04:35 PM   #1557
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On a hunch I suspected the tolerance issues are from the engineer conversation. Here are the quoted parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwmac View Post
I had a good private engineer to engineer discussion with the Mopar chief engineer at the Jeep Safari
Chrysler is well aware of our issue. Briefly he told me there will be a TSB released in July and new parts to follow.
We discussed the failure and he said so far it appears to be a tolerance issue bushing to shaft. Nothing new there. He is not happy that there is not positive lube for the bussing built into the old design. He made no comments about the gear because I forgot to ask about it. Anyway at this time new part candidates are undergoing dyno endurance testing.
His advice to me with 18+k on my '06 is to take the thing out a look at it and decide if it will survive for a few more months.
No further guidance was offered.
PaulW
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwmac View Post
To repeat
The Mopar chief engineer said the OPDA has a lube issue and it is exacerbated by a tolerance issue.
This explains why some have issues and some do not.
His recomendation is to pull the thing and decide yourself if you have a problem. He said a new TSB will be published in July. He did not comment to say if new parts would be available at that time. He said they do not have a final fix at this time and dyno endurance testing is continuing for candidate fixes.
He did not comment on engine oil.
In any event it would be prudent to begin or continue to add the zinc regardless of what you do.

(Bold are my opinions not Mopars)
PaulW
*Please note I edited the second quote to denote Paul's comments. When using the quote function the whole section is Italic. I made it bold instead for clarity. Please refer to the original quote for clarity.

This is not good enough for me, not yet anyway. It's all talk at this point. Please no offense to PW or anyone else trying to help (including the vendors making new and improved units), but I need something more. I need Chrysler to say this is a tolerance issue and that we have (not will) fixed it.

What specifically is a lube issue?
What specifically is a tolerance issue?

I've pulled units with the lower section covered in oil. Tkki has modded a unit to dump more oil in and still there is scoring. I have an oil groove cut in mine like the 04 units and still scoring. There is nothing for the upper bushing and there is scoring. It's metal to metal contact. If you shave some off, won't it just push until it hits and score some more?

The engineer advice to pull and decide if you have a problem is exactly what we are doing. Most people have a problem. Some ignore it, some do something to improve it, some replace and pray.
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Unread 07-10-2011, 04:37 PM   #1558
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I understand what your saying but, one of my good friends works for Jeep and has for 25 years and out all the Jeeps he sees day in day out only seven in the last two years have made it his way for the OPDA which was caught early all of which had the monkey noise as well codes thrown. They are so many Jeeps out there that even if 5,000 units were bad there's at least that or more that aren't. Also your right you can put the OPDA in has much as you want using the sharpie method but, it is still off at least a degree or two and though it might seem fine your injector pulse width will be off as well as your ignition sequence. Your right as well about the computer making adjustments as needed but, it can only compensate very little before it just decides to either run in limp mode or just defualt tables stored in the bus. I'm not trying to be ******* I'm just trying to keep the guy from taking it out and something not going so good and no one told him it could go wrong by that method.
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Unread 07-10-2011, 04:44 PM   #1559
GMBNT42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willydigger View Post
150% complete disagree with this advice. The OPDA deal is not completely isolated. We wouldn't have half a dozen threads on multiple boards if this was isolated. Maybe not as extreme as these threads intimate, but I bet all of the guys with blown engines wished they had of seen these threads sooner rather than later. I'd like to get a virtual raise of hands for all the blown engines, how many were gifted with laughing monkey? Maybe I read it wrong, but I can't believe your advice is not to mess with it until it makes noise. By the time you get any codes, it may be too late. There is no reliable pre-warning indicator. Preventative maintenance is the key here. Choose to do it or not, but don't rely on a squeak or code.

With regards to the sync, while 0° might be required for some (perfectionist, not engines), the computers adjustment is good enough to keep your $100 scan tool fee. I've had mine out several times and swapped one using the "sharpie method" (which by most accounts is perhaps the least accurate form of measurement) and I've had zero problems. I refuse to believe I've been lucky that many times especially considering I'm a Bengals fan and an Orioles fan.

If you don't want to spend a lot of money try your luck with the existing OPDA and a new gear. I don't recommend it. You don't know the damage to the bushings and OPDA's (plural not isolated) have failed and destroyed engines with lower mileage. Wait the extra few days it takes to get a new one and install it. If you don't want to bother with the FogMod, at least tear it down and lube the shaft. It's $120 for a new unit. How much for a new engine?

With regards to the clearance issue, this is the first I'm hearing of it. The first time in this thread or any thread. I don't doubt anyone's intentions, maybe I'm the one who's in the dark. If there was an admission from anyone with a reputable position on this issue that clearance was a known reason I'm pretty sure we would have heard about it. Has anyone else heard that clearance is a known issue? Known issues are the main reason I question the "alleged" Crown, Skinny Pedal, Chrysler fixes. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'd love to see the info and I'd gladly update the main page.
OK, Ill pick up the $120 OPDA assembly..........big question though, do you think the camshaft itself is OK? Are people normally finding that the OPDA gear worn, but the camshaft gear itself to be "OK"? Since the front fenders, grill, radiator,head etc are already off, replacing the cam itself is probably easiest now, but Id rather not have to since the cam lobes and lifters all still look brand new with no wear. Using a flashlight(no mirror unfortunately)looking down the OPDA hole the camshafts own gear looks to be OK.......
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Unread 07-10-2011, 04:59 PM   #1560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unlimitedlj View Post
I understand what your saying but, one of my good friends works for Jeep and has for 25 years and out all the Jeeps he sees day in day out only seven in the last two years have made it his way for the OPDA which was caught early all of which had the monkey noise as well codes thrown. They are so many Jeeps out there that even if 5,000 units were bad there's at least that or more that aren't. Also your right you can put the OPDA in has much as you want using the sharpie method but, it is still off at least a degree or two and though it might seem fine your injector pulse width will be off as well as your ignition sequence. Your right as well about the computer making adjustments as needed but, it can only compensate very little before it just decides to either run in limp mode or just defualt tables stored in the bus. I'm not trying to be ******* I'm just trying to keep the guy from taking it out and something not going so good and no one told him it could go wrong by that method.
I don't challenge your motives. You are just like the rest of us, trying to find a solution. Your experiences very from mine a little, just like the rest of us. This thread, though started by me, was just one in a line of the others that is only as good as the feedback it receives from others with this same problem. It's a special club.

From the feedback of this thread and the other multi-thread posts, I can 100% positively say with certainty that you will not always get a warning. I got a warning and took my Jeep to the dealer for the OPDA. I'm sure the guys that didn't get a warning took their Jeep in for a lot more.

If you don't do anything, you reap what you sow.

With regards to the scan tool, my advice would be to pull it and reinstall it the same way. If you have a problem tweak the housing CW or CCW and try again. Then the opposite, then after all else spend the money on the scan tool. I've done mine that way. PALJ another member stopped by the house and I did his that way. I've instructed several others to do it that way and the only one I recall having an issue was tufmar and he used the TDC method. Can it happen, sure. Is it the end of the world, no.

With regards to numbers, the only number I care about is one. If one guy blew up his engine because of a bad OPDA, I'm checking it and doing something about it. I'm not going to wait for in to blow up my engine. Especially not for the price involved. The pro/con list doesn't justify it.

Finally, I don't mean to sound argumentative, I just wanted to express my personal experiences and why I believe what I do. I don't mean to imply my way is the right way or that others in this thread are foolish. Ultimately we all are on the same team.
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