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Unread 07-13-2010, 06:53 PM   #76
Knuckelhead
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Is the fan clutch held onto the water pump by one nut to the spindle, or 4?
This is the 2000 and newer fan clutch (one big nut)...


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Unread 07-13-2010, 08:02 PM   #77
Silmar
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@ Robert

I signed a Bill of Sale. I have payments on it. A bank is involved and I paid $12,200 out of the door ($10,995 sticker price).

@ Knuckelhead

It is night time now. I'll check tomorrow.
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Unread 07-14-2010, 12:08 PM   #78
Robert J. yates
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silmar View Post
@ Robert...I signed a Bill of Sale. I have payments on it. A bank is involved and I paid $12,200 out of the door ($10,995 sticker price).
I suspect your bank would be interested to know that you do not have a true 02 Jeep which is what they based their loan on. I'd be talking to my loan officer.
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Unread 07-14-2010, 05:03 PM   #79
cedxc2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Jeep View Post
Engine build code info is from the Factory service manual. You can view them online at Jeep Service Manuals

You can print out relevant pages.

Select TJ/year/engine. The engine build date code is explained near the start of the section under the heading Engine-Description.

As for the VIN, can't remember where I heard that but I checked my engine and it is there, not sure if I could have made it out easily without comparing it to my VIN for reference. It is very difficult to read.
HOLY CRAP! That is SO useful!

Forgive my glee, but I am relatively new here, and did not know about that site. Thanks for posting that.

As for the topic at hand, I would think that at the very least, the owner under whom the engine was replaced is partially responsible, assuming they concealed the fact from the dealer. Did you visit the sheriff's office? What did they say?

Best of luck buddy....
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Unread 07-15-2010, 07:48 PM   #80
Silmar
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Good evening,

I'm sorry to have left in the dark all the contributors to this thread for almost two days. So this is the latest news...

I tried to go to the closest Sheriff Office on Wednesday night, but since they close at 17:00, it was already too late. Anyway, as mentioned in my previous post, I was able to link the frame number to the others on the body, so I do have a 2002. The only swap, so far, is the engine (but I haven't checked the trans yet).

Yesterday afternoon, I send an email to the dealer. I explained the problem I had (the 4,000 rpm thing), the discovery and verification process of the 99 engine and the fact I was pretty upset. I also explained I already contacted the DMV, the State department of Consumers Affairs and the Better Business Bureau. I told him that I was "sure" it was a mistake and I was looking to give him a chance to explain himself about the problem, before I contact a lawyer and go "legal".

Four hours later, I received an "out of the office" message, stating he was out until August, 1st. I know these things take only few minutes to come back, so I'm guessing he was trying to buy himself time. All right, let's say he has a slow server... But his message was also stating that I could contact the guy in charge, the parts man, if needed.

So this morning, I called the "part guy". I explained him in details the situation and told him the dealer has until Monday to contact me back and explain himself. Else I will contact my lawyer on Monday and we will go legal. He told me his boss was out of town already, but that he will call me back quickly.

About 60/90 minutes later, the dealer called me back from his vacations location... And basically (and to summarize):

He is the one who did the swap. He bought the engine from a salvage yard. It's a 99 engine with 54,000 miles on it. He can provide (or have me provided with) an official document showing the VIN number and the mileage and he will pull out the Carfax of the car, if I want to.
He states that the original engine has a big leak of oil, and apparently the previous owner didn't knew he had it (he mentioned something about the oil pan). He had to change the engine because it was already half toasted (or something similar... Dead, unusable).

He totally forgot to mention about the swap because he had, at this point of time, so many things going on and it was a crazy time. He had a lot of Jeeps going in and out and couldn't remember what has been done on each of them (I think this is a little bit of BS, but let's say I believe him).

I asked him to provide me with an official document explaining why the engine was changed and who did it (A specialized Jeep dealer) and he didn't say no.

That we talked about the 4,000 rpm problem and he said that it was probably not related to the engine he swapped but probably a problem in the fuel lines or the O2 sensors (original parts of the Jeep). Anyway, he offered to fix whatever the problem was at no charge, because he want me to be happy with the car. But also he owes me one (it's true but a too long story, not related to the actual issue, to explain).

And he asked me if I could wait until he comes back from vacations, because everything goes wrong when he is not here and he'd like to personally supervise the whole thing.

(to be continued)
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Unread 07-15-2010, 07:58 PM   #81
Knuckelhead
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Ask him to take it back...IMO
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Unread 07-15-2010, 07:58 PM   #82
Silmar
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(...)

He also stated that we wanted me to be happy and speak good about him and this is why we will fix the car, even four months after I bought, for free.

If I put on the side his motivations (that I'm not sure are 100% pure), I'll say it is not a bad deal (not a good one just not a bad one).

I read here and there that it is illegal to swap engine for an older one but I cannot found any official text.
It seems to be the law in CA but that's it. Other States need to comply with Federal Emissions and that's it...
Here in Florida we have no laws, whatsoever. Apparently, as long as the engine is from the same category of vehicle and pass Federal Emissions, it is good to go (and as I read somewhere, the Feds need to find out first).
If somebody can find me the applicable legislation for the State of Florida about engine swap, let me know, since it will be a different story... But if he did nothing illegal, I really have nothing against him, except he forgot to mention about the engine swap. Not sure I can win with only that, especially since he is a Jeep dealer.

I'm guessing if I can obtain a document from the dealer stating why the engine was swapped, I'm kind of covering myself legally (in case I want to sold the Jeep) but also keeping some leverage if the operation was shady, no?

My problem will be fixed and I will have a 24,000 miles younger engine than the original (so I'm guessing he will probably say that compensates the fact that the engine is older). Since the I6 power plant has the reputation to be indestructible... What's the risk?
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Unread 07-15-2010, 08:28 PM   #83
Nonya
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Personally i'd rather have the 98 engine...mine has a 200k on it and has been very trouble free.
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Unread 07-15-2010, 08:30 PM   #84
jampop1
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let me help with this info, he has 3 cates, a two piece exhust mainafold and at least 2 02 sensor and a 3550 trany.
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Unread 07-16-2010, 07:28 AM   #85
-dirt-
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I wouldn't want that Jeep. Here's why: he already deceived you about the engine. Who knows what else he did? Is he even "qualified" to replace an engine? Others have mentioned potential mechanical/electrical issues involved in trying to make a 97/98 engine work in a newer TJ. Not to mention any legal issues from swapping an older motor into a newer vehicle.

IMO - you should get your money back and find yourself a different TJ. Preferably a good, stock, 1-owner. You said yourself that you didn't get a good deal on it.

Good luck!
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Unread 07-16-2010, 08:03 AM   #86
skoke70
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I bet he bought that jeep with a blown engine for 5k and put another 1k into it for the engine swap. He then sold it to you for 12.5k making a nice 6k+ profit! If I were you I would have him take it back and pick another jeep off his lot thats not "hacked" together or ask for 4k back
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Unread 07-16-2010, 08:03 AM   #87
mschviuz
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That stinks about the dealer doing the swap but not informing you of it. The 98 engine should be fine, assuming the problem you are having can be fixed. I had 155000 miles on mine and it was running strong with no problems.
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Unread 07-16-2010, 08:08 AM   #88
Nonya
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Actually my dealer mentioned once the 97-98 engines were the best engines they ever put in the TJs. 00 up he claimed had lots of bs troubles.
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Unread 07-16-2010, 08:21 AM   #89
kgginslc
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He knew about the swap and he didn't tell you about it. I'd say return it - if he won't take it, it's time to talk to a lawyer.

This is just too much hassle and too many worries about what's going to happen down the road. There are plenty of unmolested jeeps out there.
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Unread 07-16-2010, 08:36 AM   #90
Wheelin98TJ
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Forgive me if this has been asked, but did you buy the Jeep as-is?

I'm not talking about what the buyers guide said, but rather what did the sales contract say?
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1997 , 1998 , 2002 , coil rail , distributor , engine swap , year

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