2002 TJ Wrangler with 97/98 engine - Page 5 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Wrangler Forums > TJ Wrangler Technical Forum > 2002 TJ Wrangler with 97/98 engine

End of Summer Sale, 20% OFF!2007 - 2011 Jeep JK Long Arm Lift KitsIntroducing MONSTALINER™ UV Permanent DIY Roll On Bed Line

Reply
Unread 07-13-2010, 01:53 PM   #61
Robert J. yates
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: mars
Posts: 2,977
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschviuz View Post
When I did my v8 swap I sold my i6 to a guy with a 2002 TJ. He had it installed and running within a couple of days. I'm not sure what he had to do to make it work, but I'm pretty sure he left all the 98 accessories on it from my jeep. I didn't sell him the computer, just the motor and accessories, so I'm pretty sure he is running it on his late model comp.

Interesting that a 98 distributor ignition engine would work with a coil pack ignition computer. My first guess would have been that it wasn't possible. The 98 accessory drive package you sold the guy with your motor is what made it happen for him...

Robert J. yates is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-13-2010, 01:55 PM   #62
SeanCucf
Registered User
2002 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Oldsmar, Fl
Posts: 1,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silmar View Post
When checking yesterday the "history" of the Jeep, I notice 2002 Sahara has Sentry Key, full door and something else for the first year. Mine has the three options. So I guess we can assume it's a 2002 body...

I'm going to the Sheriff Department tonight to see if they can check and run the VIN or where I can have it done.

@ SeanCucf
I will recommend not buying any vehicle from an independent and specialized Jeep dealer in Tampa...
You kind of let the cat out of the bag on that picture of the tire cover. Though I've never done business with them, I don't know if there is much negative feedback of them either. I'll check the local club to see what others are saying.

Don't take this the wrong way, but there are two sides to the story. I can see a scenario where they bought it at auction, running and had no cause to verify ever part was in fact original equipment. Much like you wouldn't expect tires to be from the factory, just operational. They had a running TJ which gave them no cause to question otherwise.

Is it a pretty big deal? You bet!

Unfortunatly, for you, I bet there has to be proof of them willfully deceiving you. Good luck, and keep us up to date. I'm very curious about this. If nothing else, I would hope they work with you in some way to compensate for the "condition" not being exactly good. But, since you looked, test drove, and decided to buy, I would GUESS there is no real recourse.
SeanCucf is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-13-2010, 01:55 PM   #63
mschviuz
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silmar View Post
@SFT2

I'll do it as soon as I will be back home.

My Jeep, based on Carfax information was originally sold as a California vehicle. I'm wondering if, even in Florida, it had to comply only with Federal requirements or Federal and Californian one.
I think your best bet in pursuing legal action would be the odometer laws. I know in Mississippi each title has on the back a place to put the mileage and sign that it hasn't been altered. With you buying a jeep with a non-original motor and not being told about it, wouldn't that be somewhat classified as mileage tampering?
mschviuz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-13-2010, 01:57 PM   #64
SeanCucf
Registered User
2002 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Oldsmar, Fl
Posts: 1,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFT2 View Post



That emissions equipment law is federal.
We have no inspections. Plus, I don't think it requires you have it. Just they install it at the factory and fix it if you want for X miles.

I dunno, I'm no lawyer, but we don't have any type of inspection, as it was State enforced and they did away with it years ago.
SeanCucf is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-13-2010, 01:58 PM   #65
mschviuz
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert J. yates View Post
Interesting that a 98 distributor ignition engine would work with a coil pack ignition computer. My first guess would have been that it wasn't possible. The 98 accessory drive package you sold the guy with your motor is what made it happen for him...
I wish I knew more about what he did to make the swap possible but I had my own issues to deal with at the time while doing mine. I think you are right about him having all the 98 accessories making it possible for him to make it happen though!
mschviuz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-13-2010, 02:07 PM   #66
SFT2
Registered User
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Spring, Texas
Posts: 1,071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silmar View Post
@SFT2

I'll do it as soon as I will be back home.

My Jeep, based on Carfax information was originally sold as a California vehicle. I'm wondering if, even in Florida, it had to comply only with Federal requirements or Federal and Californian one.
I'm not sure what the rules are there, I only studied Texas laws and a few federal laws directly involving stuff I have to deal with.
__________________
Mine- 2k TJ, RC 2.5 lift, .75 spacers, Soft 8s, 33" KM2s, winch, lights, and so on
Hers- 06 WK, bone stock until she leaves it and the credit card with me for an unsupervised weekend

You're the retarded offspring of five monkeys having butt sex with a fish-squirrel.
SFT2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-13-2010, 02:09 PM   #67
SFT2
Registered User
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Spring, Texas
Posts: 1,071
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanCucf View Post
We have no inspections. Plus, I don't think it requires you have it. Just they install it at the factory and fix it if you want for X miles.

I dunno, I'm no lawyer, but we don't have any type of inspection, as it was State enforced and they did away with it years ago.
But all of the emissions equipment that is on a non-Kalifornia car is required by a federal law, and if you pull it off it's a federal crime. But, yeah, in a no inspection state it's kinda tough for the feds to discover that. However, I think that it's the federal law that covers removal of emissions equipment, too, so that might be a way to nail 'em.
__________________
Mine- 2k TJ, RC 2.5 lift, .75 spacers, Soft 8s, 33" KM2s, winch, lights, and so on
Hers- 06 WK, bone stock until she leaves it and the credit card with me for an unsupervised weekend

You're the retarded offspring of five monkeys having butt sex with a fish-squirrel.
SFT2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-13-2010, 02:16 PM   #68
-dirt-
Registered User
2005 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 1,007
http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/80008.pdf
-dirt- is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-13-2010, 02:48 PM   #69
Jeepson33s
Registered User
2003 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kennesaw, GA
Posts: 451
ok...i have read this and i am still trying to figure out how you have a case. Ill give you this situtation...You have a jeep wrangler that you blow the engine on. You replace said engine with one from a junkyard with lets say a 98 and go about your business. A few years down the road, you want a new car so you trade that car in and the dealer takes it to auction and sells it there. Another jeep dealer buys it and sells it to you...is it possible that they might have seen the engine before selling it..yes. Would they have noticed that it was a older engine...maybe but on the range of no due to the volume of jeeps they probably see go in and out of their shop if they are a jeep wrangler only dealer. SO...they sell the jeep to you and disclose what they know about it to you at point of sale and you sign and buy. Did they misrepresent the jeep...does not sound like it...did you get hosed...probably not. This is an important lesson though, and its coming from someone who spend many years in the dealership game...GET THE CAR INSPECTED BEFORE BUYING!!! I cant stress this enough. It will be the best 200 dollars ever invested. As the dealer, they cant be expected nor should they feel the need to take EVERY car through a full inspection through their shop. Service tech drives it and changes fluids...if nothing stands out then it goes to the lot and if something is wrong then they fix it and add that to the sale price.

Im sorry that you are in this situtation but getting lawyers wont help. Call the dealership and ask them if they have any options for you...if they have any soul, they will work with you as much as possible but i would not expect much because it is not on them or anyone else. Part was replaced that happened to be the engine...live and learn.
Jeepson33s is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-13-2010, 03:20 PM   #70
Robert J. yates
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: mars
Posts: 2,977
We don't yet know if the vehicle was misrepresented or not. As for the lawyer...if I was this guy, I would have already had an attorney contact the folks who sold me the vehicle. I't called lubrication. There is a diminished value claim here that needs to be rectified in the owners favor.

I will agree with you on one thing though.... anytime I see wiring and crimp connectors hanging outside of the main factory harness, my BS radar goes up. He should have taken that as a clue that something was funny on this truck but then it has taken me a few vehicles to wise up to this lesson over the years. Its a learning experience for sure.
Robert J. yates is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-13-2010, 03:22 PM   #71
Robert J. yates
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: mars
Posts: 2,977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonya View Post
I'd like to see more pictures...betcha it doesn't pass federal emissions and i'll bet the equipment is missing...big time fine on the dealer there! Take more pictures and post um up. I'm sure there is something wrong you can stand on the dealer with. NOway it can meet 02 federal standards with a 87 engine. The ignition and camshaft are different plus many other things just to start off with.

Blah blah blah blah ....nothing here but a waste of air and bandwidth
Robert J. yates is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-13-2010, 04:05 PM   #72
SFT2
Registered User
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Spring, Texas
Posts: 1,071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert J. yates View Post
I will agree with you on one thing though.... anytime I see wiring and crimp connectors hanging outside of the main factory harness, my BS radar goes up. He should have taken that as a clue that something was funny on this truck but then it has taken me a few vehicles to wise up to this lesson over the years. Its a learning experience for sure.
I know what you mean and agree, but for the sake of people that might run across this thread in the future I feel there should be a bit of an expansion on the thought. I have a few wires outside of the main harness, a few that are added to the main harness, and a few that are run in new loom, but they're mainly for extra lights and the winch. None of it's done sloppy and 95% is soldered and heat shrunk, but not everyone is as anal as me when it comes to wiring.

So, to make it short (too late), if you see a bunch of single wires, crimped butt splices, loose electrical tape, and so on going to sensors, think real hard on what's going on there. If you see sloppy work on wiring going to accessories, take a closer look and see how much of the work will need to be redone, and consider that sloppy wiring could mean sloppy maintenance.
__________________
Mine- 2k TJ, RC 2.5 lift, .75 spacers, Soft 8s, 33" KM2s, winch, lights, and so on
Hers- 06 WK, bone stock until she leaves it and the credit card with me for an unsupervised weekend

You're the retarded offspring of five monkeys having butt sex with a fish-squirrel.
SFT2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-13-2010, 04:21 PM   #73
Robert J. yates
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: mars
Posts: 2,977
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFT2 View Post
I know what you mean and agree, but for the sake of people that might run across this thread in the future I feel there should be a bit of an expansion on the thought. I have a few wires outside of the main harness, a few that are added to the main harness, and a few that are run in new loom, but they're mainly for extra lights and the winch. None of it's done sloppy and 95% is soldered and heat shrunk, but not everyone is as anal as me when it comes to wiring.

So, to make it short (too late), if you see a bunch of single wires, crimped butt splices, loose electrical tape, and so on going to sensors, think real hard on what's going on there. If you see sloppy work on wiring going to accessories, take a closer look and see how much of the work will need to be redone, and consider that sloppy wiring could mean sloppy maintenance.

Agree and disagree. I wasn't trying to make a huge general sweeping statement.... heck, I have so much additional wiring under my hood (to support additional accessories) its not even funny but as with you, its soldered, shrink wrapped and loomed and frankly, almost impossible to tell from stock.

I was speaking to this particular rig though.... the main harness has been breached, there are wires coming out of it around the distributor and coil, the AC pump has been re-wired and the main harness connectors sure look funny. Also, that weird strap holding the upper rad hose to the fan shroud is a bit butch as are the locations of the heater hoses and spark plug wires. There are looms or hold down clamps on the motor to route all of this stuff and there should be no reason for the strap to keep the upper hose in place unless its the wrong hose.

I point this out more as education for what folks might want to be keeping an eye out for when they go to buy a vehicle. Any vehicle, not just Jeeps but Jeeps certainly do lend themselves for some reason, to all kinds of ghetto fabbery and modification
Robert J. yates is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-13-2010, 05:44 PM   #74
Silmar
Registered User
2002 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Fort Myers
Posts: 31
I'm learning... I'm learning here!

But don't forget this is my first Jeep. I never have one before. Honestly, when you bought you're first Jeep, you were able to differentiate a 99 engine from a 2000 just by looking at it?

Also, Jeeps has the reputation to be a "rustic" car, easy to fix with a screwdriver and duct tape. Yes, the wire with red connections raised a red flag but I told myself: "Oh well, it is probably something the previous owner fixed by himself".

As for the A/C compressor, the dealer disclosed this information to me. He has it replaced when he bought the car, since the original one was not working. It was done by a third party, which explains why it's an aftermarket one, and that probably also explain the bracket, else hoses will be rubbing against the wheel.

The thing here is I'm from a different culture. In Europe, you have pros, you have rights and you can count on it. When I'm going to buy a car from a dealer, I know he is a pro and if there is any issue, I backed up with the law, not by a lawyer, the law. Swapping engine is illegal, point. You go to court, you are sure to win, that's the law. So basically, you can buy in confidence without having to check every inch of the vehicle before buying it.

Anyway, that said, I was able to find and check the VIN on the frame and the good news it it's matching the rest of the VIN on the body of the car. As for the engine, I have two numbers. 903MX12 as mentioned before and XP465901, which based on a VIN decoder I found somewhere else, relate to a 99 (X) serial number.

I check the dealer on the Better Business Bureau and he is rated A+ with no complains for the last 36 months (standard length). So somebody mentioned earlier, maybe he didn't pay attention and didn't saw the engine swap. Which I find difficult to believe as a Jeep specialist.
Anyway, if I'm correct, the dealer is supposed to do (take?) due diligence (which is something that never does normally), to be sure that the car he is selling is the right one.
Also, he misrepresented the vehicle, since he never mentioned to me that the engine was a 99 one.
Also, this problem is now my problem because if I try to sell the car now, and somebody discover the problem, I'm the one liable for it. So I think I have a case here...

Now I'm wondering which approach I should take. Contact the dealer, explain the problem and ask him what he wants to do to solve it. But if he is dishonest, that will tip him and give him time to be prepared or... Contact a lawyer and have him contact the dealer directly.
Silmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-13-2010, 06:35 PM   #75
Robert J. yates
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: mars
Posts: 2,977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silmar View Post
Also, this problem is now my problem because if I try to sell the car now, and somebody discover the problem, I'm the one liable for it. So I think I have a case here...

Now I'm wondering which approach I should take. Contact the dealer, explain the problem and ask him what he wants to do to solve it. But if he is dishonest, that will tip him and give him time to be prepared or... Contact a lawyer and have him contact the dealer directly.
This is what I was referring to when I spoke about diminished value. Now that you are aware of the engine swap, you have 2 things working against you. The first is that your vehicle value is changed and IMO, not for the better. You have experienced a loss of value beyond what you bargined for in simple depreciation. The second is that since you are now aware of the swap, you now have a duty to disclose it when you go to sell it.

I'd call the dealer and see what they say. In the grand scheme of things, the least they can do is listen to your complaint and if they are honest, the 2 of you can work out a 3rd party inspection so that you both understand exactly what condition the vehicle is in. If the motor is sound and the other issues are minor, then they can kick you back a few bucks to compensate you for the hassle.

If the motor and the swap is garbage, they should be taking the vehicle back.

On that note, did you sign a contract of any type? Do you have payments? Is a bank involved and how did you pay for it?
Robert J. yates is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1997 , 1998 , 2002 , coil rail , distributor , engine swap , year
Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.