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Unread 10-22-2009, 10:29 AM   #1
Jonesie
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Yet Another Axle Swap Question

I did search, and even tried posting to another thread that didn't get any reply.

I have a line on a set of WT axles for a CJ.

AMC20 with Superior 1-piece shafts and disc brakes
Dana 30 complete from hub to hub.
They have the 2.73 gears in them.

The guy is asking $400 for the pair.

I'd like to go to 4.10 gears so I can run 32-33" tires both on the road and on the trail. I won't be crawling crazy rocks, and MAY run into some mud from time-to-time. I know I'll need to change the carrier in both, plus buy the R&P. I am thinking about locking at least one of them.

My question is this: If I regear these, I WILL need to replace the carrier, even if I decide to lock them. The locker works in addition to the carrier, right?

Is this worth it? I've read that if you need to regear, just buy axles that already have the gears in them. Opinions?

Thanks - David

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Unread 10-22-2009, 10:35 AM   #2
CJman77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesie View Post
I did search, and even tried posting to another thread that didn't get any reply.

I have a line on a set of WT axles for a CJ.

AMC20 with Superior 1-piece shafts and disc brakes
Dana 30 complete from hub to hub.
They have the 2.73 gears in them.

The guy is asking $400 for the pair.

I'd like to go to 4.10 gears so I can run 32-33" tires both on the road and on the trail. I won't be crawling crazy rocks, and MAY run into some mud from time-to-time. I know I'll need to change the carrier in both, plus buy the R&P. I am thinking about locking at least one of them.

My question is this: If I regear these, I WILL need to replace the carrier, even if I decide to lock them. The locker works in addition to the carrier, right?

Is this worth it? I've read that if you need to regear, just buy axles that already have the gears in them. Opinions?

Thanks - David
That seems like a lot. By the time you buy gears and everything else its gonna cost 1000 plus if you have to have the work done at a shop even more. I would keep looking if you heart is set on wide tracks i only paid 100 for mine.
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Unread 10-22-2009, 11:36 AM   #3
CSP
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To answer the carrier question, the need for a new carrier in addition to the locker depends on what kind of locker you go with.

Only the lunchbox type lockers (Aussie, Lockrite, etc) fit inside the stock carrier. True full case lockers like a Detroit or ARB actually are the carrier.
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Unread 10-22-2009, 12:40 PM   #4
Jonesie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSP View Post
To answer the carrier question, the need for a new carrier in addition to the locker depends on what kind of locker you go with.

Only the lunchbox type lockers (Aussie, Lockrite, etc) fit inside the stock carrier. True full case lockers like a Detroit or ARB actually are the carrier.
THAT'S what I needed to know. Thank you!

OK, based on these replies, this setup seems to be too much for what I'd be getting.

I've also seen a 4.10 Dana40/AMC20 combo off a 80 Cherokee. That would also require outboarding the perches, right? Would they need to be shortened? I wouldn't mind a wider stance, provided it wasn't ridiculous.
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Unread 10-22-2009, 01:28 PM   #5
CSP
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Front diff is on the wrong side with any full size Jeep that's 1980 or newer.
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Unread 10-22-2009, 01:39 PM   #6
motiv8ya
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Pretty sure you need new carriers for both front and rear if re-gearing to
4.10's from 2.73's. I believe 3.31 and below (numerically lower) for the Dana 30 carrier is the cut off 3.54's and up (numerically higher) for the Dana 30 takes a different carrier. I just researched this for my current build and this is the info I got from my drivetrain shop. The estimate I got to regear from 3.31 to 4.10 was just over $1000.00 without the cost of the new carrier.
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Unread 10-22-2009, 02:02 PM   #7
Jonesie
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I knew that too! There's a lot to remember with these diffs. This has been the hardest thing to find for my Jeep. The engine and trans were easy, axles, not so much.

So a FSJ 81+ should work with minimal effort, right? If I use Waggy axles, I'd have to outboard, but I wouldn't necessarily have to have them cut down, correct?

Thanks - David
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Unread 10-22-2009, 02:58 PM   #8
OlivergreenCJ7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesie View Post
I knew that too! There's a lot to remember with these diffs. This has been the hardest thing to find for my Jeep. The engine and trans were easy, axles, not so much.

So a FSJ 81+ should work with minimal effort, right? If I use Waggy axles, I'd have to outboard, but I wouldn't necessarily have to have them cut down, correct?

Thanks - David
You got all kinds of ideas You might be able to find WT axles from a 4cyl jeep. they came with 3.73 or 4.10. Heck anything is better then the 2.72 you run. 3.54 seem pretty common and wouldn't be to bad with 32's. If you want waggy axles you want 74-78 D44's. The front D44 has flat top knuckles. outboard the front springs and move the rear spring perches. Remember you need PS drop and 5x5.5 BP on the axles if you want to keep your current wheels. The waggy axles that year are around 58" wide. I don't know if you could cover them up to keep it street legal without it looking like a maxi with wings
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Unread 10-22-2009, 03:27 PM   #9
CSP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesie View Post
So a FSJ 81+ should work with minimal effort, right?
No, you have that backwards. Any FSJ 80+ is a drivers drop in front. You want a passenger drop which is 79 or older.

Quote:
If I use Waggy axles, I'd have to outboard, but I wouldn't necessarily have to have them cut down, correct?
You either outboard or narrow them. No need for both. If you leave them at stock width you have to outboard your front spring mounts.

If you narrow the front by 4" you can relocate the drivers side spring perch on the axle tube and use the passenger perch right where it already is.
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Unread 10-22-2009, 03:28 PM   #10
CSP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlivergreenCJ7 View Post
The waggy axles that year are around 58" wide.
No, any front Waggie is about 61.5", regardless of the year. The rear is around 59".
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Unread 10-22-2009, 06:09 PM   #11
foggybottombob
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The waggy axles would be the easiest to deal with but you would have to go to 6 bolt wheels like waggys and chevy trucks use. (6 on 5.5"). The waggy front axle has 7 degrees positive caster with the pinion at 5 degrees up. So if you don't go too high with a lift, you can get away with not having the inner knuckles turned. And the 74 to 76 waggy front axles have flat top knuckles.
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Unread 10-22-2009, 06:25 PM   #12
Jonesie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlivergreenCJ7 View Post
You got all kinds of ideas You might be able to find WT axles from a 4cyl jeep. they came with 3.73 or 4.10. Heck anything is better then the 2.72 you run. 3.54 seem pretty common and wouldn't be to bad with 32's. If you want waggy axles you want 74-78 D44's. The front D44 has flat top knuckles. outboard the front springs and move the rear spring perches. Remember you need PS drop and 5x5.5 BP on the axles if you want to keep your current wheels. The waggy axles that year are around 58" wide. I don't know if you could cover them up to keep it street legal without it looking like a maxi with wings
OK, I'm a bot confused. My 81 Cj5 came with the 151 I4, and I'm getting currently rebuilding a 360 V8 to swap in. Are you saying that my CJ5 may already have 3.73 or 4.10, or is that just on the Waggy?

If that's the case, let's say I have 4.10's already, I can regear other axles with my current gears, correct?

I've tried to do my homework here, but the websites I'm finding are pretty old and not really complete.

Thanks - David
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Unread 10-22-2009, 06:56 PM   #13
foggybottombob
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An 81 CJ5 has a low pinion dana 30 in the front. Waggy front axles are low pinion dana 44's. You could swap the AMC 20 gears into a rear waggy AMC 20 axle from 80 to 86 1/2. After 86.5 the waggy rear axles are dana 44. All rear 80's waggy axles are centered.
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Unread 10-22-2009, 07:16 PM   #14
Jonesie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foggybottombob View Post
An 81 CJ5 has a low pinion dana 30 in the front. Waggy front axles are low pinion dana 44's. You could swap the AMC 20 gears into a rear waggy AMC 20 axle from 80 to 86 1/2. After 86.5 the waggy rear axles are dana 44. All rear 80's waggy axles are centered.
Thanks, Bob. I'm not sure I was clear enough.

I checked both my current, CJ NT AMC 20 and my current CJ NT Dana 30. They are 3.54 gears. The tag on the 30 says so, and the math on the 20 says so.

If I found a WT CJ AMC20, but the gear ratio isn't what I want, I could swap what I believe to be the 3.54 gears that are in my AMC now, correct. I could take the carrier and all, and make the swap. Same with the 30?

Taking that a step further, if I wanted to go to 4.10 gears, I could take the carrier out of my AMC20 with the 3.54, swap the R&P and put it in the new CJ AMC20. Same with the 30?

Does this sound correct?

Thanks - David
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Unread 10-22-2009, 10:34 PM   #15
foggybottombob
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Yeah the AMC carrier/gears will swap but you will have to do a gear setup. The carrier break for a dana 30 is 3.54 and down. So for 4.10's in a dana 30 you would need a series 4 carrier while the one you have is a series 3. The AMC 20 uses the same carrier for everything but the 2.73. So an AMC 20 carrier for 3.54 is the same as needed for 4.10. But when you put new gears in any housing you will have to re-do the setup.
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