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Unread 06-18-2013, 05:34 PM   #16
Pacfanweb
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Holy crap, what a total ripoff. I can get it rebuilt here for about 200 bucks, max.

Hell, you could probably order a new one from Summit or somewhere for less than that.

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Unread 06-21-2013, 12:30 AM   #17
sphippler
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they're a little under a grand from autozone but they wont ship it out here. I paid $250 for a rebuild kit, torque converter, engine rear main seal, and a manual shipped across the ocean from autozone. I priced these parts from oreillys down the street and the total was $705. (side note: I live five miles from the dole pineapple plantation and pineapples are almost twice as expensive as in the mainland)
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Unread 06-27-2013, 10:08 PM   #18
sphippler
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I've got the trans all apart and I have a few questions. This is the rebuild kit I have
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...0_19314_115411

1. The pictures of the forward and direct clutch assemblies I've seen have 16 little springs in them. Mine have slots for 16 springs but there are only 12 springs in each clutch assmebly.
-Is this normal?
-Is there a reason someone may have done this?
2. On the intermediate clutch assembly there is the center support which has the four steel rings on it that each one locks into its self. The rebuild kit doesn't have these steel rings, it has some weird wimpy plastic rings with beveled edges.
-Are these ok to use or should I just use the old ones?
3. My rebuild kit didnt come with any needle bearings and races, bushings, the low-reverse band, or roller clutch bearings.
-Is it ok to reuse the old ones?
4. The forward clutch assembly had a few clutch discs that were worn down to the steel.
-Would this cause the transmission to slip in first gear when its cold and the transmission to eventually not move forward at all? I ask because that's what it did.
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Unread 06-27-2013, 10:21 PM   #19
sphippler
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Is it ok to use brake parts cleaner to clean up the parts before reassembly?
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Unread 06-28-2013, 10:38 AM   #20
Cutlass327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sphippler View Post
I've got the trans all apart and I have a few questions. This is the rebuild kit I have
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...0_19314_115411

1. The pictures of the forward and direct clutch assemblies I've seen have 16 little springs in them. Mine have slots for 16 springs but there are only 12 springs in each clutch assmebly.
-Is this normal?
-Is there a reason someone may have done this?

The factory may have done this for cost savings. If it was going behind a big block V8 in a full sized car/truck, they may have put them all in. A CJ spec'd trans wouldn't need all of them.

2. On the intermediate clutch assembly there is the center support which has the four steel rings on it that each one locks into its self. The rebuild kit doesn't have these steel rings, it has some weird wimpy plastic rings with beveled edges.
-Are these ok to use or should I just use the old ones?

Do the old ones look worn? If minor, maybe reuse them. Are you talking about the ones that go between the clutches? I wouldn't put plastic there...

3. My rebuild kit didn't come with any needle bearings and races, bushings, the low-reverse band, or roller clutch bearings.
-Is it ok to reuse the old ones?

If they look worn or damaged, no. I can understand the bearings not in the kit, but it should have included all of the friction parts - they're wear items! Can you get one separately?

4. The forward clutch assembly had a few clutch discs that were worn down to the steel.
-Would this cause the transmission to slip in first gear when its cold and the transmission to eventually not move forward at all? I ask because that's what it did.

Yep.
I replied in the quotes.
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1978 CJ5 258/T177/D300, '86 D30/D44 WT axles, 'glass tub windshield frame, and fenders, 31x10.5 BFG A/T, TDK galv'd frame - DD and weekend toy

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/ri...8-cj5-1223197/
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Unread 06-28-2013, 01:53 PM   #21
Pacfanweb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sphippler View Post
Is it ok to use brake parts cleaner to clean up the parts before reassembly?
Absolutely
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Unread 06-28-2013, 06:05 PM   #22
Cutlass327
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And make sure you soak the friction parts in the proper ATF fluid for a while before installing. Overnight would be best!
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1978 CJ5 258/T177/D300, '86 D30/D44 WT axles, 'glass tub windshield frame, and fenders, 31x10.5 BFG A/T, TDK galv'd frame - DD and weekend toy

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/ri...8-cj5-1223197/
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Unread 06-28-2013, 10:08 PM   #23
sphippler
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Yeah I've been soaking them. I really appreciate the help.
But I do have some more questions.
1. In my trans the forward clutch, direct clutch, and the intermediate clutch had four friction discs and four steel discs each. I've been looking through my rebuild kit and there are 13 clutches.

A. three are larger than the rest so they are obviously the intermediate clutches.

B. five are the small ones but have grooves across the friction surface and have very thin friction surfaces and thicker steel centers.

C. five are the small ones and have smooth surfaces and have thicker friction surface and a thinner steel center.

-Why did I only get three intermediate clutches in the rebuild kit?
-Should or could I reuse some of the old ones if they look good?
-Why did I get ten of the small clutches when only eight came out of the tranny?
-Why do some have grooves on the friction surface and some dont?
-Can I reuse the steels if they look good and I cant get the right thickness from the new parts?

2. The haynes manual has me checking the direct clutch assembley with a feeler guage to make sure the space after installing the clutch packs is .060 - .080. I checked this clutch assembly with the old clutch discs installed and I only got .041.
-Is this .060 to .080 sound right to everyone?
-The haynes manual doesnt say anything about checking the forward clutch assembly with a feeler guage, is this necessary?

3. I've been thinking about making some modifications to the tranny to firm up the shift. I've read this isn't a great idea on a short wheel base vehicle since it is more prone to spinning out.
- Any ideas or thoughts on that?
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Unread 06-29-2013, 08:23 AM   #24
Pacfanweb
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Just put a shift kit in it, and choose the "RV/Towing" option. It'll be firmer, but not tire-chirping.
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Unread 07-14-2013, 08:44 PM   #25
sphippler
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so I put the transmissin all back together. The vehicle doesnt move forward or backwards. I've checked the fluid, tried it in all gears and tried it with the quadratrac transfer case in E-drive, limited slip drive and high and low range. The drive shafts aren't spinning in any of the gears so i'm assuming the problem is in the transmission or transfer case.
-I know the transfer case is shifting between E-drive and limited slip because I can hear the fork moving when I hook up the vacume line to either port.
-The engine does sound like its under a little bit of a load when its in gear and I rev it up so I guess something is happening in there.
-When I took the trans apart everything looked pretty good. Two of the clutch plates in the forward clutch assembley were worn but all the rest looked new and the seals looked just like the ones I was putting in it.
-the transfer case has never made any ratcheting or breaking noises
-after the rebuild I put one quart of fluid in the torque converter and four in the trans then I ran it for a few minutes and shifted through all the gears then checked it in nuetral and park and it is towards the bottom of the cross hatch pattern.
I dont really know what to do about the trans. Ive heard that a problem in the pump can cause this. I'm about to just replace the pump to rule that out but it looked good when I had it out.
-one thing I havn't done is check the pump pressure.
-I'll take any suggestions at this point
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Unread 07-14-2013, 09:29 PM   #26
sphippler
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I have an update. I put about 1 more quart of trans fluid in and the jeep does barely move now. I have to rev it up pretty good and then it does start to move. I guess its progress but it's no where near driveable.
-this is actually the problem it had before I rebuilt it.
-does anyone know which vaccum port on the quadratrac transfer case is for E-drive and which one is for limited slip
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Unread 07-15-2013, 05:57 AM   #27
thompsoj22
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it's the learning curve

as i stated initially, check pump pressure in all gears!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. this is just about the only diagnostic tool you have on a tranny as old as yours. you are definitley suffering from a loss of pressure. did you disassemble the valve body at all? is the fluid level topped off?. i must have misunderstood but one quart in the convertor and three in the pan isnt enough. is the pump whining at all?. did you inspect/take apart the pump? honestly at this point, if it requires taking it apart again you should find someone with experience to help you. you just cant guess or hope your way through a auto tranny rebuild. you gave it your best shot but be smart about it and get some experienced help. there has to be some hot rod old timers on the island that would be willing to help?
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Unread 07-15-2013, 07:40 PM   #28
sphippler
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I put 1 quart in the torque converter and 4 in the pan and it wouldnt move so I put one more in the pan and it kind of moves now. The manual said the capacity is 4 quarts.
I did take the valve body apart and I didnt see any issues
I took the pump apart and didnt see any issues. I dont hear any whining.
I dont think it is the right dip stick. Before I rebuilt it, it would push fluid out the dipstick tube if I filled it up to the full line. Also I pulled the dipstick tube out one time and about a cup of fluid came out the hole. I dont think the fluid is supposed to be above the pan gasket.
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Unread 07-15-2013, 08:34 PM   #29
lucdog
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On a TH 400 rebuild the tranny takes 11 quarts. This is from my 1978 owners manual.

Bill
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 07-15-2013, 08:37 PM   #30
lucdog
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This will tell you which is the vacuum apply side for the actuator.
http://jubileejeeps.org/quadratrac/index.htm
It's the one towards the front of the Jeep.

B
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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