Why your steering wanders or seems loose. - Page 22 - JeepForum.com
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post #316 of 337 Old 08-19-2011, 08:19 AM
Mike2411
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Wandering CJ5

James,
Great article. I learned a lot from your supplied links, too.
I have a '76 CJ5 with a 4" suspension lift and 33" tires.
Correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm about to install some shims to get this thing back between the lines where it belongs.
It seems that to achieve a positive caster, the top point of the imaginary line of suspension travel needs to be slightly behind bottom of the line of travel. A negative caster would put the top of the line of travel slightly ahead of the bottom of the line. See pic.



So, to get that stock 4 caster back, the thick part of the 4 wedge should go to the back, putting the wheel center ahead of the top of the line of suspension travel, right? Maybe I'm looking at this incorrectly, but to me, this makes more sense. Please let me know asap.

Thanks,

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post #317 of 337 Old 08-19-2011, 08:28 AM
Mike2411
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Correction...

Pls disregard my previous post. I see now that the thick part of the shim to the front does give a positive caster. Sorry for any confusion!
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post #318 of 337 Old 11-06-2011, 07:32 AM
sickboycj7
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subscribe. Great Thread. Thanks
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post #319 of 337 Old 11-13-2011, 07:18 PM
sickboycj7
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PO installed 2 degree shims backwards giving me a 0 degree castor. i turned them around, now I'm near 4 degrees, not perfect but it's a night and day difference. This saved me a ton money as I was about to start replacing everything on the front end. Thanks
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post #320 of 337 Old 12-19-2011, 09:40 PM
Opi43
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I just bought a cj7, without a lift. It has the same loose steering problem. What would cause this. And how can I fix it??
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post #321 of 337 Old 01-15-2012, 09:11 PM
cottnpickr
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Whole new steering system, still wanders, about to lose it, please help

I have read James' post (several times-great post) and many others, trying to figure out my '84 CJ7. I'm finishing a complete restoration and virtually everything on the Jeep is new, down to stainless steel bolts and screws all over. These are the things I've replaced on the steering system, most of which I wanted to anyway, but it still roams all over the road:
power steering (had manual)
steering shaft
both shaft u-joints
gear box (power steering)
Pittman arm (straight)
tie rod
damper
upper and lower ball joints
hubs
bearings
4-wheel drive lockouts
shocks
shims (caster is approx 5 degrees positive)
steering wheel
new silicone bushings all over
The entire steering system is new except the knuckles. Jeep is not lifted. There is no loose play in the steering; jiggle the steering wheel and the front wheels jiggle (sitting still); when moving, you have to turn the steering wheel about 1/4 turn before front wheels turn, then fight to get them to turn back to avoid a head-on or running off the road. Then turn them the other way again-constant battle.

I'm probably taking it to an alignment shop, but before I do, I'd like to know if I've missed anything obvious that will make me look more stupid than I feel. I have put over $5k in parts and paint, and got deals on most items. I've done all work myself-no one else has touched it, so can't blame anyone else.

It started out as a labor of love (my late brother got it new in '84), but it has turned int my biggest nightmare. My wife is about to beat me with a cast-iron frying pan. I'm scared to go to sleep, afraid of what she might cut off.

Anyone with any ideas, please share them, before I O.D. on Jelly Bellies.

Thanks for all your help and info.
Wandering starts stable I haven't had the courage to get it over 45. Essentially, it is undriveable.
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post #322 of 337 Old 01-16-2012, 01:42 AM
80cj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cottnpickr View Post
I have read James' post (several times-great post) and many others, trying to figure out my '84 CJ7. I'm finishing a complete restoration and virtually everything on the Jeep is new, down to stainless steel bolts and screws all over. These are the things I've replaced on the steering system, most of which I wanted to anyway, but it still roams all over the road:
power steering (had manual)
steering shaft
both shaft u-joints
gear box (power steering)
Pittman arm (straight)
tie rod
damper
upper and lower ball joints
hubs
bearings
4-wheel drive lockouts
shocks
shims (caster is approx 5 degrees positive)
steering wheel
new silicone bushings all over
The entire steering system is new except the knuckles. Jeep is not lifted. There is no loose play in the steering; jiggle the steering wheel and the front wheels jiggle (sitting still); when moving, you have to turn the steering wheel about 1/4 turn before front wheels turn, then fight to get them to turn back to avoid a head-on or running off the road. Then turn them the other way again-constant battle.

I'm probably taking it to an alignment shop, but before I do, I'd like to know if I've missed anything obvious that will make me look more stupid than I feel. I have put over $5k in parts and paint, and got deals on most items. I've done all work myself-no one else has touched it, so can't blame anyone else.

It started out as a labor of love (my late brother got it new in '84), but it has turned int my biggest nightmare. My wife is about to beat me with a cast-iron frying pan. I'm scared to go to sleep, afraid of what she might cut off.

Anyone with any ideas, please share them, before I O.D. on Jelly Bellies.

Thanks for all your help and info.
Wandering starts stable I haven't had the courage to get it over 45. Essentially, it is undriveable.
Stainless bolts are OK on non stress items but stuff like suspension, steering, engine mounts or other bolts that are critical to safe operation of the vehicle should be proper SAE automotive grade.
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post #323 of 337 Old 02-26-2012, 09:14 PM
hagan39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opi43 View Post
I just bought a cj7, without a lift. It has the same loose steering problem. What would cause this. And how can I fix it??
Can anyone answer this?? I recently put power steering on a manual without a lift and my steering is loose as can be. I am turning the wheel half way before I get any reaction.
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post #324 of 337 Old 02-27-2012, 08:41 AM
rise
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Is your Steering box mount flexing? Ball joints loose or bad? Tie rod ends old bad or loose?
I had the problem once..And I was driving it around with the bolts in the steering mount actually loose.

my build http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/first-time-builder-79-cj5-1162008/
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post #325 of 337 Old 02-27-2012, 08:49 AM
rise
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And make sure the ball joints were correctly installed. Mine would not return to center very well and it was because I did not pre load the upper joint the first time I replaced them. I reinstalled them correctly and the Jeep drives like a Cadillac now

forumrunner_20120227_074818.jpg

my build http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/first-time-builder-79-cj5-1162008/
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post #326 of 337 Old 08-18-2012, 05:24 PM
top10
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Does anyone know the correct caster for a 1960 willys utility wagon?
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post #327 of 337 Old 08-18-2012, 07:28 PM
gojeepin
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OK... what's listed in the Factory Service Manual and what you really need will be different.

In 1960 we were all using bias ply tires. Due to the sidewall and tread characteristics of the bias ply tire, you could get away with less caster but still have the mechanical trail effect you needed.

A good rule of thumb for radial tires is between 5* and 8* positive caster.

I cover this and a lot of other steering and suspension concepts in the article linked below.

Vibration? Bump steer? Wandering? Read the article (sticky) on Steering, suspension, and driveline.
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post #328 of 337 Old 09-25-2012, 11:46 PM
svenster
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so i am posting here because i feel my other post regarding this subject wasnt quite answered. yes i read the whole 21 page post. it took me forever. i have a shackle reversal with a 4' BDS yj spring conversion. all steering components are new, minus the pump and box. everything is tight. i am experiencing death wobble anywhere between 30-45 mph. i have 9.1*-9.3* caster. do you guys feel that getting the vehicle closer the 6* will help me fix my issue? thank you
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post #329 of 337 Old 09-26-2012, 04:38 AM
OrangeCJ-5
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Cottnpickr,

Just wanted to 2nd what rise said about the ball joint installation. I couldn't find the procedure in my Hayes manuals (either one: Cj nor F150) When I replaced the joints in my F-150, the instructions that came with the ball joints stated that the upper gets an initial torque, the lower gets torqued and then torque the upper to the final spec. It stated that if this procedure is not followed it could cause them to bind up
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post #330 of 337 Old 04-21-2013, 10:57 PM
way2fastmike
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ok how will this work on a spring over lift? im confused.
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Tags
ball joint , camber , caster , drag link , loose steering , tie rod , Tie rod end , toe in , toe out , wander , wandering , wheel bearings

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