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Unread 03-03-2014, 08:19 PM   #31
Matt1981CJ7
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WLJ,

How much fuel do you plan on stockpiling?

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Unread 03-03-2014, 08:23 PM   #32
WLJ
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Originally Posted by Offroaddaddy View Post
Lol, relax
I'm completely relaxed.

You see I don't get mad or upset over inconsideration or condescension because to do so would be giving those being inconsiderate or condescending to me power over me by having altered my mood.
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Unread 03-03-2014, 08:26 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
WLJ,

How much fuel do you plan on stockpiling?
Fuel with ethanol in it doesn't keep well from what I understand.

And as I said, I'm not a hard core prepper. So rather than stockpiling fuel, so I'll just make sure I have a manual pump and a long hose.
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Unread 03-03-2014, 08:38 PM   #34
Matt1981CJ7
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Personally, I think your prepping priorities are a little skewed. From what I've read, any vehicle will be virtually worthless in an EMP disaster, regardless of how they are equipped.

The Mad Max thing is fun to fantasize about, tho.

Matt
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Unread 03-03-2014, 08:38 PM   #35
SouthernGypsy
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Originally Posted by WLJ View Post
Good advice. I'm not a hard core prepper. But I decided that if I'm going to do this Jeep thing, then I want one without a computer that would be likely to continue to operate if exposed to EMP.

No one REALLY knows what would happen in the event of a massive exposure to EMP, so I know that I can't really be "EMP proof", but I'd like to know that I have a reasonable chance at having an operating vehicle should one occur.

I had training in the military (Ranger and Advanced Security Ops) on EMP's and many people have mis-conceptions about what they can and can not damage. Such as they can not damage older style solid-state technology.

The damage from an EMP comes primarily from one of two places; The first being it causes an overload on major power systems. This does not affect vehicles so does not concern us here talking about vehicles... No, your battery is not going to explode and all your cars circuits burst into sparks because an EMP goes off like it does in the movies, at least not unless you are at ground zero to a really big one and if your that close your vehicle will be the least of your worries believe me.

The second problem which is the one we're talking about here is that just like using a degaussing wand over a video tape the EMP can wipe out the electronic memory in some chips. Older solid state technology doesn't even have that type of modern memory chip in it. Modern cars do. One mis-conception is that an EMP damages the chip... An EMP does not damage the chip itself, it simply erases what is on it. Just like degaussing a video tape you can then re-record something else over it later assuming it's a reprogrammable type chip which most modern ones are.

Unfortunately we can't really just "re-load" the chips in our modern cars, though a dealership might be able to in the same way they can update a cars software. Not sure they could reload all of the chips in a modern car though without replacing the modules unless they were all interconnected, some vehicles are some aren't but more and more are with each new year model. Though of course even if they had to remove the modules and replace them the removed modules could be sent back somewhere to be reloaded. In the event of a major EMP event I suspect (well, it's a little more than a suspicion, I've seen this very thing reviewed in "what if" scenarios run by the Army) that this is what the car companies will resort to once the initial event is over; get your name on a list and when your time comes you tow your car in and they replace your modules and send the old ones back somewhere to be reprogrammed again and then given to the next guy. If we ever had a really major event the back-log for doing that would be tremendous, imagine being in a city of 5 million with say 250,000 of a particular model of car, and that is not the only model needing to be re-flashed. If only one city was hit the factorys would probably send people there with programmers to several of the largest dealerships so mechanics could pull modules from one car, hand it to a programmer who would reprogram it while the mechanic put in a new module, and then the programmer hands the mechanic back the module for the next guy in line or a few people down the line. However this could still take a long time to get to your car, you'd have to get your name on a list and they would be taken on a first come first serve basis so having an older vehicle is certainly a good idea for a prepper.

The military is even now starting to experiment with vehicles that have updateable systems so if it the vehicle is exposed to an EMP in the field the solider can pull out a safely stored backup such as a USB drive kept in a sealed metallic container that is EMP safe, plug in, and re-download the vehicles operating software. But that is something they was only just beginning to experiment with when I left a few years ago in 2011.
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Unread 03-03-2014, 08:56 PM   #36
bptactical
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Just build a Faraday cage around your Jeep.
Just don't wear the tinfoil when you are in it or you will short out.







Jk.
I have my 79 for much of the same reasons.
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Unread 03-03-2014, 09:05 PM   #37
WLJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
Personally, I think your prepping priorities are a little skewed. From what I've read, any vehicle will be virtually worthless in an EMP disaster, regardless of how they are equipped.

The Mad Max thing is fun to fantasize about, tho.

Matt
I'm guessing my 1959 Ford F 100 will be fine in a EMP disaster. Even the AM Radio has vacuum tubes instead of transistors.

So, if there's fuel, it should run.
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Unread 03-03-2014, 09:13 PM   #38
WLJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernGypsy View Post

I had training in the military (Ranger and Advanced Security Ops) on EMP's and many people have mis-conceptions about what they can and can not damage. Such as they can not damage older style solid-state technology.

The damage from an EMP comes primarily from one of two places; The first being it causes an overload on major power systems. This does not affect vehicles so does not concern us here talking about vehicles... No, your battery is not going to explode and all your cars circuits burst into sparks because an EMP goes off like it does in the movies, at least not unless you are at ground zero to a really big one and if your that close your vehicle will be the least of your worries believe me.

The second problem which is the one we're talking about here is that just like using a degaussing wand over a video tape the EMP can wipe out the electronic memory in some chips. Older solid state technology doesn't even have that type of modern memory chip in it. Modern cars do. One mis-conception is that an EMP damages the chip... An EMP does not damage the chip itself, it simply erases what is on it. Just like degaussing a video tape you can then re-record something else over it later assuming it's a reprogrammable type chip which most modern ones are.

Unfortunately we can't really just "re-load" the chips in our modern cars, though a dealership might be able to in the same way they can update a cars software. Not sure they could reload all of the chips in a modern car though without replacing the modules unless they were all interconnected, some vehicles are some aren't but more and more are with each new year model. Though of course even if they had to remove the modules and replace them the removed modules could be sent back somewhere to be reloaded. In the event of a major EMP event I suspect (well, it's a little more than a suspicion, I've seen this very thing reviewed in "what if" scenarios run by the Army) that this is what the car companies will resort to once the initial event is over; get your name on a list and when your time comes you tow your car in and they replace your modules and send the old ones back somewhere to be reprogrammed again and then given to the next guy. If we ever had a really major event the back-log for doing that would be tremendous, imagine being in a city of 50 million with say 250,000 of a particular model of car, and that is not the only model needing to be re-flashed. If only one city was hit the factorys would probably send people there with programmers to several of the largest dealerships so mechanics could pull modules from one car, hand it to a programmer who would reprogram it while the mechanic put in a new module, and then the programmer hands the mechanic back the module for the next guy in line or a few people down the line. However this could still take a long time to get to your car, you'd have to get your name on a list and they would be taken on a first come first serve basis so having an older vehicle is certainly a good idea for a prepper.

The military is even now starting to experiment with vehicles that have updateable systems so if it the vehicle is exposed to an EMP in the field the solider can pull out a safely stored backup such as a USB drive kept in a sealed metallic container that is EMP safe, plug in, and re-download the vehicles operating software. But that is something they was only just beginning to experiment with when I left a few years ago in 2011.
Great explanation (except I don't know of a city on our continent with a population of 50,000,000. But your point is well taken).

I did know that EMP doesn't physically damage the chips or fry them or anything but does erase them. Your example of a video tape being degaussed is a good one.
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Unread 03-03-2014, 09:28 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by WLJ View Post
Great explanation (except I don't know of a city on our continent with a population of 50,000,000. But your point is well taken).

I did know that EMP doesn't physically damage the chips or fry them or anything but does erase them. Your example of a video rape being degaussed is a good one.
Yea, that was a typo on my part, I started to type 5,000,000 and then changed it to simply saying 5 million but apparently didn't delete all the 0's I'd started to type. I was thinking of Los Angels as an example in my mind which I think is probably around 5M now days. The whole thing with people thinking sparks come flying out of their keyboards and equipment and the neon lights exploding all have more to do with Hollywood than real life. Modern movies like to show all the blue sparks flying when an EMP is in reality (if we were going to use a movie example) much more like the pickup scene in Close Encounters where the lights just go dim and fade out and the engine just dies, no sparks, no drama, it just dies and the lights fade out. Except that truck in Close Encounters was old enough an EMP wouldn't have affected it. I think it was supposed to be aliens in that movie. A modern car affected by an EMP would die due to the sudden loss of the computer controlling it. Unless it was one of the newest models with the touch screen starting and no actual key it should still crank and the dash lights would all still come on, at least the ones not computer controlled, it just wouldn't start because the computer wouldn't be issuing instructions. On the models that have the new all computer controlled touch screen starting your just kinda screwed totally. Oh yea, and the memory chip that "recognizes" your code keys is going to be blank as well so if you do have a key but it's a code-key type then that's not going to work either.
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Unread 03-04-2014, 02:56 AM   #40
John Strenk
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Originally Posted by stgil View Post
1986 CJ7 Diesel: fully mecanic! and hydraulic: steering and clutch

I still like this solution myself....
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Unread 03-04-2014, 04:15 AM   #41
stgil
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Originally Posted by John Strenk View Post
I still like this solution myself....
Yup! EMP proof and can run wih butter or oil with minor changes (adding a heater, and calibrate the injectors)... and who care smog at World End ?

I don't remember who write this but I'm agree: It would be my last problem (car running) *IF* something like that occurs...


Regards,

Gilles
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Unread 03-04-2014, 06:16 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by stgil View Post
1986 CJ7 Diesel: fully mecanic! and hydraulic: steering and clutch
I'd love to have a diesel, for a lot of reasons.

But I've never seen an original diesel.

I heard that they made some diesel CJ-7s between 1980-82 for export, but I've never seen one.
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Unread 03-04-2014, 07:09 AM   #43
WLJ
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Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
Personally, I think your prepping priorities are a little skewed. From what I've read, any vehicle will be virtually worthless in an EMP disaster, regardless of how they are equipped.

The Mad Max thing is fun to fantasize about, tho.

Matt
Thanks for your input/concern.

However, my question here was a tactical one involving equipment, not a strategic one.

I came to the perceived "experts" on equipment, in this case Jeep CJs to ask a specific question on that topic.

If I have a question on prepping strategy, I'll ask that question of the perceived "experts" on prepping.

Not trying to be a jerk, but I'm not here to discuss prepping strategy, I'm here to discuss Jeep CJs.

In other words the "how" not the "why".
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Unread 03-04-2014, 07:15 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WLJ
I'd love to have a diesel, for a lot of reasons. But I've never seen an original diesel. I heard that they made some diesel CJ-7s between 1980-82 for export, but I've never seen one.
False! original diesel were made between 82-86 (WT) with ISUZU 2.4L 240D AND RENAULT 2.1L J8S engine...
Same power 60hp, same torque, same mpg 37...
The RENAULT one is a bit more integrated in the dashboard than the ISUZU...
The injection pump is stronger in the ISUZU than RENAULT (can work with sand in the gasoil!) ... But very hard to find spare piece...
Both are not powerfull but they are both STRONG...
They were mounted in 4.56 ratio very usefull in offroading, no problem of idle since injection,
no problem like carb issue when inclination is excessive, and of course high torque at low rpm!
So a must have for me! But this not a reason to not dreaming about I6 or a V8....
Top speed is a bit low :65 mph... But it is a CJ!
Regards,

Gilles
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Unread 03-04-2014, 07:22 AM   #45
WLJ
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Originally Posted by stgil View Post

False! original diesel were made between 82-86 (WT) with ISUZU 2.4L 240D AND RENAULT 2.1L J8S engine...
Same power 60hp, same torque, same mpg 37...
The RENAULT one is a bit more integrated in the dashboard than the ISUZU...
The injection pump is stronger in the ISUZU than RENAULT (can work with sand in the gasoil!) ... But very hard to find spare piece...
Both are not powerfull but they are both STRONG...
They were mounted in 4.56 ratio very usefull in offroading, no problem of idle since injection,
no problem like carb issue when inclination is excessive, and of course high torque at low rpm!
So a must have for me!
Top speed is a bit low :65 mph... But it is a CJ!
Regards,

Gilles
I was obviously misinformed. I'd love to have one. How many did they make and were they sold in the US?
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