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Unread 09-21-2011, 06:48 PM   #1
gingermesiah
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weber tuning 32/36 & engine tuning help

I've been searching ,reading and using the advice on this forum for over a year now but this is my first thread. Lets start with my setup.
1982 cj8 258 remaufactured 1 1/2 years ago(New radiator, and valve cover also)
new Weber 32/36 kit added
team rush (New parts: 8mm wires, oem coil, dist. guts, Dist. cap, dist. rotor, adapter, and oem module)
nuttered
vacuume lines ran according to this http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nes_199878.jpg,
new welding wire grounds according to this, (added second wire off starter motor ground conection to frame, put my binding post through fire wall by battery to ground dash off other side) http://www.junkyardgenius.com/chargi...ES/wire106.gif
Adapted new vapor canistor according to this http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=106051

here are some pics
http://s1100.photobucket.com/albums/...urrent=CTO.jpg
http://s1100.photobucket.com/albums/...rrent=fuel.jpg
http://s1100.photobucket.com/albums/...t=Teamrush.jpg
http://s1100.photobucket.com/albums/...=Weber3236.jpg
http://s1100.photobucket.com/albums/...rent=Vapor.jpg

thats the info, heres the problem. cannot seem to get it to idle smooth within weber specs. currently at 3/4 on mixture and 2 on idle. and thats a "very crapping barely keep it running" idle. I set my timing around 8 many months ago, but when checked now I cannot see the mark on the balancer at all. the distributor has not moved. It was running rich but decently well for many months at 1/2 on mixture and about 3- 3 1/2 idle(way out of spec). my wife ran it dry and #6 rod slipped out from under the rocker. It was not bent so I put it back in and all is well. I now need to pass emissions and more importantly I would like to learn to tune my jeep to best possible millage and dependability. What is the first step from here?

Thank you to everyone on here that has made it possible for this ok "fix it " guy to upgrade and maintain the jeep he loves. Sorry if I posted in the wrong place or followed the wrong format in posting.

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Unread 09-21-2011, 07:13 PM   #2
gojeepin
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I'd check for leaks around the base of the carb and/or the adapter plates that is messing up the mixture. I was always battling leaks. Any time I started getting a rough idle, I had a leak again.

That's why I eventually installed a Motorcraft 2100.
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Unread 09-21-2011, 08:44 PM   #3
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consider a MC2100/2150 setup? I love mine. Never could get my Weber 34DEGC right.
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Unread 09-21-2011, 09:07 PM   #4
JeepScrambler
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Get a vacuum gauge and check to see if you might have any vacuum leaks anywhere. I have two CJ's with weber 32/36's on them and they run amazingly well; not to mention they can idle down to crazy low RPM's when properly tuned. On my last one I installed, my Jeep had many of the same symptoms as yours. I hooked up my vacuum gauge and found out I wasn't carrying nearly enough vaccum; indicating I had a vaccum leak somewhere. I sprayed WD40 around the base of the carb and adapter plates and didn't have any leaks. I then sprayed it on the intake manifold where it bolts to the head and the RPM's increased. Come to find out I had the rear most bolt loose on the intake. I tightened it up and fired the Jeep back up and it instantly started, idled, and ran smoother. Plus it put my amount of vacuum back into the correct specs. After some fine tuning it now runs great! My bet is a vacuum leak!
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Unread 09-22-2011, 02:01 AM   #5
Matt1981CJ7
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I'm not sure this is your problem, but I've always thought the fuel filter was suppose to mount as horizontal as possible, with the return on top. You've got it mounted vertically.

Also, I'm not a fan of rubber fuel lines draping over the top of the valve cover. You are probably OK, since yours are resting over other lines, but that would still make me nervous.

Here's your pic, for convenience sake, and the second pic is of my fuel filter/pressure reg/Weber 32/36 setup.

Hope this helps,

Matt
teamrush.jpg   fuelsetup.jpg  
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Unread 09-22-2011, 08:20 AM   #6
mcmud
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gingermesiah View Post
I've been searching ,reading and using the advice on this forum for over a year now but this is my first thread.

heres the problem. cannot seem to get it to idle smooth within weber specs. currently at 3/4 on mixture and 2 on idle. and thats a "very crapping barely keep it running" idle.
While 2 turns out on the mixture screw is good, 3/4 isn't, too narrow of a needle opening. Try 1-1/2 turn in with the speed screw, up to the point that zero vacuum signal is available at the 'S' port nipple while at idle.

If the carb is jetted within a reasonable range that setting along with 2 to 2-1/2 turns out with the mixture screw should allow a steady/smooth idle. Typically the .075 primary and .060 secondary idle jets are most suitable.

Quote:
I set my timing around 8 many months ago, but when checked now I cannot see the mark on the balancer at all. the distributor has not moved.
Must set the initial timing within a base range of 6-10*BTDC, possibly more if you drive at altitudes higher than 4K. Although you mention that the distributor hasn't moved yet the initial has, your changing the "dist. guts" reads as if you've replaced the pick-up coil, maybe altering the rotor phasing.
Always be certain to remove and plug the distributor vacuum advance tube prior to setting the timing and making adjustments to the carb.

Quote:
What is the first step from here?
Aside from the helpful hints to check for air leaks and resetting of the fuel filter level, with the return tube directly over the feed tube, re-check and set the initial timing and try the recommended screw settings.

Oh and as long as the vacuum system is plumbed to that diagram, disconnect and plug the tube to the EGR valve....that layout is badly flawed.

Let us know how that works out.
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Unread 09-22-2011, 08:24 AM   #7
swatson454
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In addition to what the guys have already said, it might be a good idea to attach your distributor vacuum line to the unused port on the carb as I believe you're on the wrong one for spark advance.

I also think you're a little slow on your initial timing. The balancer has obviously slipped but adding enough advance to give you a little more rpm would probably help quite a bit.

Have you seen this thread? Weber Set-Up and Tune Discussion

Hope it helps!


Shawn
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Unread 09-22-2011, 11:19 AM   #8
Matt1981CJ7
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Hey Ginger,

Any luck with the above advice? Please keep us informed.

Also, since our setups are very similar, I thought you might find this layout helpful.

Note, if you follow this layout, your spark advance will run off manifold vacuum instead of s-ported. Your idle may improve from the added advance this setup will give it. Many of us feel this is the better setup.

I'd also recommend a stock air cleaner over that little breather they supply with the 32/36 kits.

Matt
postnuttermanifold.jpg  
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Unread 09-22-2011, 07:31 PM   #9
gingermesiah
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so heres what I'm going to do:
*reroute fuel line and filter to a horizontal location with vent side to top.
*buy and use vacuume tester, spray for vacuume leaks. (wd40 or carb cleaner?)

Mcmudd - I have not changed timing since before I replaced "dist.guts". While soldering all my splices, and fixing po's duct tape wiring job. I messed up the wires coming out of the dist. Tried to fix but opted for new "guts" instead. I thought I put it back in the same, could I have messed something up? and if so how do I check / fix it? is this why I cannot see the mark on the balancer with a timing light? Also I live in utah at about 4500ft and sometimes drive up to 9000 or more, do I need to adjust differently for this? purchased A high altitude jet kit from weber but don't really understand jets and if or what I need to change them too.

swatson 454 - So the port closest to the firewall "ERG port" is the "E" port and the one closer the the fan is the "Vacuume advance port" or "S" port? I've got advance on the "E" port and the "S" port is plugged, should it be the oppisite?

Matt1881CJ7- great photo I am a visual learner, and thus why the massive amount of info I've read on this subject has been a bit confusing. Your diagram is with the stock air cleaner? so I would need to get one of those(did not come with jeep) a reverse relay and conections?

To everyone- I'm looking for best gas millage, dependability and enough strength to handle average backcountry dirt roads. which setup should I persue: oem air filter with Matt1881CJ7's vacuume layout or standard weber with my current layout. it's not my daily driver so I have a little time and money, but don't want to switch carbs.

thank you all, for everything. troubleshooting seems alot more clear now. Theres alot of info on here and possible problems, it can be overwhelming. it may be a week or so before I can get this done, wife wants some quality time before she heads to japan for acouple weeks. Hope my jeep doesn't find out about my affair with my wife
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Unread 09-23-2011, 06:42 AM   #10
Matt1981CJ7
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Ginger,

It sounds like you have a good plan of attack.

Yes, if you want the EGR and TAC systems, both of which serve a reasonable purpose, you will need a factory breather. The reverse relay is probably unnecessary in my layout.

Alternatively, as Terry said, if you keep the little breather, you should unplug and cap the CTO where it connects to the EGR, as it's currently not hooked up properly.

As for high altitude, I live at 7000 feet. My '81 CJ7 runs best at 12* BTDC initial. I'm running the standard jets supplied with my 32/36. I only have about 3 months on my Weber, but it's performed flawlessly for me so far. Although I run it at about 700 RPM, it will idle smoothly well under 500 RPM.

Good luck,

Matt
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Unread 09-23-2011, 08:46 AM   #11
swatson454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gingermesiah View Post
swatson 454 - So the port closest to the firewall "ERG port" is the "E" port and the one closer the the fan is the "Vacuume advance port" or "S" port? I've got advance on the "E" port and the "S" port is plugged, should it be the oppisite?
Yes, hook the distributor to the "S" port. Unless you have to pass emissions, Matt is correct in saying that quite a few of us prefer manifold vacuum. It becomes especially handy when dealing with exposed enrichment holes at idle on a throttle area limited 32/36.


Shawn
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Unread 09-23-2011, 09:16 AM   #12
gingermesiah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swatson454 View Post
Yes, hook the distributor to the "S" port. Unless you have to pass emissions, Matt is correct in saying that quite a few of us prefer manifold vacuum. It becomes especially handy when dealing with exposed enrichment holes at idle on a throttle area limited 32/36.


Shawn
and were should I hook it if I do have to pass emissions?
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Unread 09-23-2011, 09:35 AM   #13
swatson454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gingermesiah View Post
and were should I hook it if I do have to pass emissions?
If you're stuck with emissions, the spark port will be the right location.


Shawn
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Unread 09-23-2011, 12:17 PM   #14
gingermesiah
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sorry for my ignorance, but where is the "spark port"?
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Unread 09-23-2011, 12:39 PM   #15
swatson454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gingermesiah View Post
sorry for my ignorance, but where is the "spark port"?
There's no such thing as a stupid question. I've asked some of the most stoopidest questions out of all of us in an attempt to learn something.

The spark port is the one that you currently have capped. See how it's positioned lower on the carb than the one you're currently using? The spark port will apply a vacuum signal as soon as the throttle plate begins to sweep past it, which is what you need for emissions-based spark advance, while the port you're currently using will deliver a weaker signal based on the velocity of the air flowing through the venturi.

The one that you're currently using is designed to run certain emissions stuff that I don't know the ins and outs of. Believe me, there are some guys here that know it well.


Shawn
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