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Unread 10-12-2010, 01:51 PM   #61
swatson454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uptillnow View Post
I think these links got confused along the way...
I beleive this is the link he is refering too.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/we...-258-a-631105/
Yes they did and I didn't catch it the second go-around. Of course, I didn't expect the link to take us back to where we currently were either. What the... was there some thread editing going on that we didn't catch?

Either way, on the 34 toooo rich thread.


Shawn

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Unread 10-12-2010, 02:46 PM   #62
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OK, ok, somethings amiss with my link! The thread I'm trying to link ya'all to is a huge, detailed write up on the Weber 34 too rich condition, what size jets to get for both run and idle, their part numbers (since Weber doesn't support the 34 anymore) and other info on the electric choke, mixture settings, fuel regulator, etc, etc, do the Nutter, etc, etc.
Again, I apologize for the crappy link - dunno why it's pasting something different than what I copy...
I spent all summer F-ing with this Weber 34 I inherited and that thread was a big help. Had to get the vac info elsewhere but I finally drove my Jeep today for the first time in 4 months.
Thanks for holding my hand there fellow BLS fan...
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Unread 10-12-2010, 02:50 PM   #63
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I think he was asking if this is the proper thread which one should use for the set up and tuning of a Weber. So if that were the case the answer would be yes. However he should be aware that his carb is linked to Weber by sticker only. It is what it is, a 34DGEC also known as I believe it to be the Solex 34TEIE but in desgise...it is a met at the wharf thing going on with that.

IMHO all but the design and materials quality, the choke linkage, the screw settings, jets sizing and its reliance added to the loss of having skilled Redline tech support would be the same as a Weber. It seems that the screw settings are rather different because in helping others dial it in we've found that the "S" ported nipple is in fact in various positions...ranging from 1 to 4 1/2 turns in, with that carbs venturis being smaller while the bore is larger than either of these Webers that are the on topic/discussion of this thread, the use of smaller jets are beneficial. However not anywhere near as small at that previous thread suggests. A range that seems to fit well in that DGEC is within 5-10% smaller than the sizes discussed here as compared to those that seem to work best in the 32/36DGV series Weber.
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Unread 10-12-2010, 02:50 PM   #64
DrivinCat
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Quote:
I think these links got confused along the way...
I beleive this is the link he is refering too.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/we...-258-a-631105/
Yes, UPTILLNOW, that is what I was TRYING to get everyone too, thanks! It's a good start coupled with this great thread initiated by Zak...er, I mean Shawn.
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Unread 10-12-2010, 03:09 PM   #65
uptillnow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmud View Post
I think he was asking if this is the proper thread which one should use to for set up and tuning a Weber. So if that were the case the answer would be yes. However he should be aware that his carb is linked to Weber by sticker only. It is what it is, a 34DGEC also known as I believe it to be the Solex 34TEIE but in desgise...it is a met at the wharf thing going on with that.

IMHO all but the quality, the choke linkage, the screw settings, jets sizing and its reliance added to the loss of having skilled Redline tech support would be the same as a Weber. It seems that the screw settings are rather different because in helping others dial it in we've found that the "S" ported nipple is in fact in various positions...ranging from 1 to 4 1/2 turns in, with that carbs venturis being smaller while the bore is larger than either of these Webers that are the on topic/discussion of this thread, the use of smaller jets are beneficial. However not anywhere near as small at that previous thread suggests. A range that seems to fit well in that DGEC is within 5-10% smaller than the sizes discussed here as compared to those that seem to work best in the 32/36DGV series Weber.
I see with Freds old thread that he claims all Webers are the same, which is very close to being true.. The problem with this statment is he is "selling" us that this Solex 34TEIE that is imaculatley conceived on the warf and made into a Weber. This 34-DGEC is not a Weber, it is a Solex 34TEIE and does not tune as the real Webers tune. As clearly noted by Mcmud the exposed enrichening holes vary considerably affecting the idle speed settings. This also determines a rich or lean idle by having these enrichening holes exposed or not exposed, then changing an idle jet to compensate for this extra fuel from throttle plate position.
I just don't like this "bait and switch" at the warf and the deception that it implys and infers. An Opel made in Germany shouldn't be sold as a Cadillac in the USA because GM owns both companies.
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Unread 10-12-2010, 03:14 PM   #66
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DrivinCat,

You're new here (Welcome! btw) so this is a freebie. "Weber runs toooo rich Tune (toon) Thread 34 blah blah blah" being mentioned, especially in a good way =




Shawn
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Unread 10-12-2010, 03:21 PM   #67
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Gotcha Shawn...nice pic there for super clarity. Those worms I flung all over this thread did help in re-exposing this Solex p.o.s. imposter that apparently I have instead of a real Weber.
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Unread 10-16-2010, 08:48 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by outsider2010 View Post
Are we going to jump to main circuit soon?
Jorge.
Well I decided that we just can't jump into the mains until we've had all the fun we could possibly have with the progression circuit; fully milking them for all they're worth, so here we go.

As good as idle jet changes based on mixture screw settings can be, if you're 95% nuts and 100% committed to getting every bit of mileage and performance out of a Weber, there's still some more fun that can be had.

For instance, if you have a synchronous 38 and you pay real careful attention to detail of the linkage geometry on both the carb and the throttle linkage, plus careful adjustment of the sector gears, you can get both throttle plates to close off to this position and move in perfect harmony with each other, returning to this exact position each time. You shouldn't have an issue but mine was stubborn.


Then you can drill the pressed idle air bleeds out and tap them for threaded air bleeds.


Once the passages have been thoroughly cleaned and inspected, the new idle air bleeds can be threaded in.


Now the door is wide open to fine-tune the fuel curve of the progression circuit with various idle air bleed sizes in addition to all of the idle jet sizes. Look at all of that adjustability.


With the throttle plates closed off per the first photo, like they honestly should be so that no fuel is allowed to flow from the progression hole during idle, should a higher idle speed be desired, little holes can be drilled in the throttle plates. This will bring the idle speed up a touch but, more importantly, will also serve to counter the richness of the larger first progression hole.


Don't go hoggin out your passages and throttle plates just yet, I've done this sort of thing before and this is my madness! This also isn't something a guy should do without an air/fuel monitor. These little tweeks go along way to stretching out the mileage and they give you the ability to tune out lean holes or rich peaks, should you have any.


Shawn
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Unread 10-17-2010, 08:58 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swatson454 View Post
Well I decided that we just can't jump into the mains until we've had all the fun we could possibly have with the progression circuit; fully milking them for all they're worth, so here we go.

As good as idle jet changes based on mixture screw settings can be, if you're 95% nuts and 100% committed to getting every bit of mileage and performance out of a Weber, there's still some more fun that can be had.

For instance, if you have a synchronous 38 and you pay real careful attention to detail of the linkage geometry on both the carb and the throttle linkage, plus careful adjustment of the sector gears, you can get both throttle plates to close off to this position and move in perfect harmony with each other, returning to this exact position each time. You shouldn't have an issue but mine was stubborn.


Then you can drill the pressed idle air bleeds out and tap them for threaded air bleeds.


Once the passages have been thoroughly cleaned and inspected, the new idle air bleeds can be threaded in.


Now the door is wide open to fine-tune the fuel curve of the progression circuit with various idle air bleed sizes in addition to all of the idle jet sizes. Look at all of that adjustability.


With the throttle plates closed off per the first photo, like they honestly should be so that no fuel is allowed to flow from the progression hole during idle, should a higher idle speed be desired, little holes can be drilled in the throttle plates. This will bring the idle speed up a touch but, more importantly, will also serve to counter the richness of the larger first progression hole.


Don't go hoggin out your passages and throttle plates just yet, I've done this sort of thing before and this is my madness! This also isn't something a guy should do without an air/fuel monitor. These little tweeks go along way to stretching out the mileage and they give you the ability to tune out lean holes or rich peaks, should you have any.


Shawn
Interesting information Shawn. Were you able to come up with anything specific as to mileage numbers? I was getting 18 with 45 jets, but still had my mixture screws too far out, so I went up to 60's and lost considerable mileage, but at the same time that weber runs better than it ever has.
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Unread 10-17-2010, 09:28 AM   #70
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Interesting information Shawn. Were you able to come up with anything specific as to mileage numbers? I was getting 18 with 45 jets, but still had my mixture screws too far out, so I went up to 60's and lost considerable mileage, but at the same time that weber runs better than it ever has.
No doubt the 60s are powerful jets, they're just pig rich down low.

I'm not using any screw settings anymore, I'm simply tuning the fuel curve of each circuit under actual driving conditions so I'm not even sure where the screws are at this point.

The progression curve was basically upside down delivering a rich mixture just off idle with barely any load and getting leaner with more throttle input and increasing load. This is no doubt due to the first progression hole being nearly twice the size of the others. The mods I've done thus far have corrected the pig-rich entry and now I just need to settle into a final idle air bleed size to control the mixture a little higher up in the rpm range. It'll likely end up being a .065 with the 45 idle jets.

I don't have any mileage numbers as of yet but I will surely post up when I do. Just looking at the a/f numbers recently, it has the potential to deliver some good mileage improvments. It sounds and feels very crisp and responsive.


Shawn

P.s. For anyone reading this who may be considering a Weber 38, this kind of stuff is not neccessary to make it run. As Jorge stated earlier, the 38 is about as plun-n-play of a carb as you can get. I'm just half crazy and have other plans for this carb which will require this sort of adjustability. I'm just throwing out some of the stuff that can be done.
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Unread 10-18-2010, 04:44 AM   #71
John Strenk
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Cool, pulling and tapping the idle air bleeds. I use to just solder the bleeds and use some different drill sizes but I think replaceables are better.

I notice you have removable booster venturies. Are we going to get into what booster venturi is best? If I remember correctly, I had 3 different types for that carb. Some short, some long, some with the port flush with the walls of the booster....

Yes, I had a lot of Webers in my past life.. the only Weber I have now runs on propane...
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Unread 10-18-2010, 08:44 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by John Strenk View Post
I notice you have removable booster venturies. Are we going to get into what booster venturi is best? If I remember correctly, I had 3 different types for that carb. Some short, some long, some with the port flush with the walls of the booster....
John,

The threaded inserts are quite handy. You can drill a run in what ever range you want, say 1.50mm to 1.85mm in .5mm steps and just start testing.

Those boosters sure take up a lot of space in there don't they. I've caught myself searching for boosters many times and haven't been able to find any online. I'm thinking a nice, annular discharge booster, hopefully with only one leg would be very sweet for tip-in atomization and overall low-speed performance.

I happen to know a knucklehead that'll try 'em if you know where to buy 'em.


Shawn
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Unread 10-18-2010, 09:38 AM   #73
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The best low speed (Low RPM) performance I saw was on carbs with dual boosters. Usually they ran dual boosters if they had to use a large throttle bore for top end performance. The signal at the port was great and responsive. Of course there was a lot of metal in the way for any WOT performance. You saw this on a lot of Jap carbs.

Annular ports like on some of the the Holley 500 2bbl are great only for WOT performance. The theory was many little holes would atomize the gas better but in practice it took a strong signal to draw out the fuel in the first place.

I remember buying tubing and making some of our own boosters to use on some old Webers out of Fiats and Ford Capris. We were kids then and didn't really know what we were doing and if it didn't knock a second of our ET's the idea was a washout but now I wonder how it effected other things.

I remember putting baffels (baffles?) in the bottom of the fuel bowl to keep fuel from sloshing away from the jets in quick turns.
Still it seems like a good idea. Hmmm. I really need to get a Weber again to play with, too bad I sold my creat of carbs that I had collected. My 45DCOE is just a pencil holder now....
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Unread 10-29-2010, 12:06 PM   #74
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I sure like the adjustability of the low-speed circuit with the threaded air bleeds. It's very easy to add or reduce the fuel delivery by a small amount and be able to basically split the difference between two different idle jets. While the difference was appreciable on the 38, I bet it would be much more pronounced and beneficial with the velocity-streched primary barrel of the 32/36.

What I'm really enjoying is the profound impact that the emulsion tubes have on low-speed mixture strength and the timing of the main circuits' activation. It's neat how the idle jet/low-speed air bleed combination along with careful emulsion tube selection can be made to overlap each others' delivery almost seamlessly and allow a smooth yet powerful midrange transition into the main circuit without an excessive light-operation mixture.


Shawn
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Unread 10-29-2010, 12:36 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swatson454 View Post
I sure like the adjustability of the low-speed circuit with the threaded air bleeds. It's very easy to add or reduce the fuel delivery by a small amount and be able to basically split the difference between two different idle jets. While the difference was appreciable on the 38, I bet it would be much more pronounced and beneficial with the velocity-streched primary barrel of the 32/36.

What I'm really enjoying is the profound impact that the emulsion tubes have on low-speed mixture strength and the timing of the main circuits' activation. It's neat how the idle jet/low-speed air bleed combination along with careful emulsion tube selection can be made to overlap each others' delivery almost seamlessly and allow a smooth yet powerful midrange transition into the main circuit without an excessive light-operation mixture.


Shawn
This is a very interesting and advanced experiment here. I have heard of drilling out the air bleed for usage at or above 6000 feet elevation. I believe the 38-DGES has a 1.90mm air hole and drilled to 2.00mm or 2.05mm helps allot for the Jeeps drivability at altitude. What material did you use and how did you thread the air bleed? Also, I know by reducing the size of the air bleed you would be able to use a smaller fuel jet keeping the “reasonably” same atomization and drivability and reduce the volume of fuel blowing out the exhaust. What sizes air bleed with what size fuel jet have you tried? What are your driving air fuel ratios, if you have them?
Shawn, thank you for sharing your information, I could see how you could easily ruin a perfectly good carburetor by not being careful.
UPTILLNOW
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