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Unread 08-27-2013, 04:07 AM   #1
Adams77
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1990 YJ Wrangler 
 
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Weber Fuel bowl empty in the morning

Here is the story in short form

258 nutter bypass
Weber 32/36
stock air cleaner

Runs great, idles great, could not be happier with performance.....but

Any time it sits for 8 or more hours, the bowl is empty and I have to crank and prime again.

Stock fuel pump, stock filter with return to tank and return line is directly above the line going to the carb bowl.

I have checked to see if the throttle plate was above the enriching holes, and my idle screw is about 1/2 turn from the full out position (1 1/2 allowable)

Where is my gas going?

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Unread 08-27-2013, 05:26 AM   #2
Matt1981CJ7
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Adam,

Do you smell any gasoline when the Jeep sits? I believe the power valve is in the bottom of the float bowl. It could be leaking perhaps.

Where does your filter sit in relationship to the carbs inlet? It should sit level to the ground and at least as high as the inlet, otherwise gravity does its thing.

Lastly, I've read that the new ethanol blends evaporate more quickly then normal petrol. It could be that simple.

Matt
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Unread 08-27-2013, 05:35 AM   #3
Adams77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
Adam,

Do you smell any gasoline when the Jeep sits? I believe the power valve is in the bottom of the float bowl. It could be leaking perhaps.

I dont smell gas when its sitting

Where does your filter sit in relationship to the carbs inlet? It should sit level to the ground and at least as high as the inlet, otherwise gravity does its thing.

The filter is below the inlet, I will change that

Lastly, I've read that the new ethanol blends evaporate more quickly then normal petrol. It could be that simple.

It would have to evaporate all the way back to the pump?

Matt
What keeps gas in the fuel line between the filter and the pump? That is empty too.
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Unread 08-27-2013, 05:50 AM   #4
keith460
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I have the same problems but it can be cured by putting a droop in the line between the filter and carb. The OEM Carter carb had this droop built into the fuel line from the filter to the carb and it was incorporated into that one fuel line. The droop in the line prevents fuel from draining back to the tank, damn gravity, and insure that a small amount of fuel is there when cranking the engine to start.

I bought all new fuel lines for my Jeep a few years back and that one line with the droop was not installed due to the difference in mounting threads on the Weber vs. the OEM Carter carb.

One of these days I will reach into my bag of fabrication skills and make that line with the loop connect to the Weber carb.
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Unread 08-27-2013, 06:06 AM   #5
Matt1981CJ7
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I'm still leaning towards a bad power valve o-ring. Have you noticed any gasoline in your oil?

Edit: You can rule out a leak in the carb by removing the carb, fill the bowl, then let it sit on a piece of card board overnight. If it's leaking, it will be readily apparent the next morning.

Good luck, and report back on what you figure out.

Matt
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Unread 08-27-2013, 09:01 AM   #6
uptillnow
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Adams77,

I have found when the "Idle Speed Screw" is in more than 1 1/2 turns, the leading edge of the throttle plate exposes the enriching holes in the throat of the Weber 32/36 DGEV.

When you shut off the engine, the throttle plate does not come down and cover the enriching hole and STOP the siphoning effect.

The result is empting the fuel bowl into a cylinder, washing the cylinder wall and then into the oil.

This can not be good. Also, is why it is CRITICAL to set these Weber carburetor's with ZERO vacuum at the "S" ported vacuum at curb idle.

This is the first place I would look for the bowl being emptied after overnight or 8 hours of sitting.

UPTILLNOW
32-36-dgev.jpg  
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Unread 08-27-2013, 06:22 PM   #7
Adams77
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I checked with a vacuum gauge, at no turns in on the idle screw I have 0 inches on the gauge, as SOON as I make the slightest turn the vacuum goes up.

I got it to idle via the redline weber guides and I end up with 5 or so inches of vacuum at idle, which tells me the throttle plate is open too much .......... BUT the adjuster screw is less than one turn out and I am allowed 1 1/2 max.

Jets are 75/60 primary/secondary

The guy at redline says to go up on the primary idle jet

I think I got a bad new unit
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Unread 08-28-2013, 12:09 PM   #8
uptillnow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adams77 View Post
I checked with a vacuum gauge, at no turns in on the idle screw I have 0 inches on the gauge, as SOON as I make the slightest turn the vacuum goes up.

I got it to idle via the redline weber guides and I end up with 5 or so inches of vacuum at idle, which tells me the throttle plate is open too much .......... BUT the adjuster screw is less than one turn out and I am allowed 1 1/2 max.

Jets are 75/60 primary/secondary

The guy at redline says to go up on the primary idle jet

I think I got a bad new unit
Adams77,

There are many many people who can barley get 500-550RPM at 1 1/2 turns in on the Idle Speed Screw.

My point is this, when you are ZERO "0" turns in with the idle speed screw, the throttle plate must already be open enough for your engine to run.

I am suggesting that we / you find out, "why is this throttle plate open enough for the engine to run at ZERO turns in on the Idle Speed Screw?"

Things to look at are: 1. The throttle shaft nut being too tight, binding the shaft so the throttle plate does not come to a complete close. 2. The choke "High Idle Screw" being turned in too much and not coming off the choke high idle. 3. your "frame" linkage. Anything before the Throttle lever, like the "bell cranks" being out of their rotation and not allowing the throttle lever to return to a complete close.

The idea of increasing the idle jet on a stock engine would be only to throw some more fuel at the engine and cover up these mis-adjustments.

There are many GOOD Weber tuners on this Forum that know the in's and out's of tuning these Weber's on a Jeep. We all are very willing to help you, if you are willing to step a few of these things out.

Let us know.

UPTILLNOW
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Unread 08-28-2013, 12:27 PM   #9
Adams77
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You are on the exact same page as the tech support guy at redline.

He gave me a procedure to verify the throttle plate is seated where it should be and tuning tips from there.

Really great guy, emailed me while on vacation...jeeping no less!
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Unread 08-28-2013, 02:27 PM   #10
kovic
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Hey Adams, I have done the tricks listed above to try and get rid of the same issue you have. Eventually I just went ahead and put on an electric fuel pump, when I turn the key, I wait a sec as it pumps then I fire it right up.

Sometimes the gas sitting in the bowl can evaporate, or so I have been told.

Get your tuning figured out first, then if that still doesnt fix it, look into an electric pump, they are cheap and easy to install.

kov
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Unread 08-29-2013, 11:25 AM   #11
Adams77
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The carb must have a physical problem, the tech guys at redline have never seen the symptoms it is displaying. Its off to cali via brown, will update what they find.
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Unread 09-05-2013, 09:55 AM   #12
Mike86CJ7
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Bump, curious to hear what Redline had to say about the issue.
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Unread 09-05-2013, 10:49 AM   #13
Adams77
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They just recieved the carburetor today, its a long ride from GA to CA.

I will keep this updated.
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Unread 09-05-2013, 11:33 AM   #14
Mike86CJ7
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Thanks! Mine was doing the exact same thing when I put it away 4 years ago. Now that I'm getting ready to pull it out of mothballs, I'm real interested in what the outcome is.
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Unread 09-05-2013, 01:55 PM   #15
Pacfanweb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adams77 View Post
What keeps gas in the fuel line between the filter and the pump? That is empty too.
Check valve in the fuel pump. If your gas is draining back into the tank, you need to replace the pump.
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