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Unread 09-03-2011, 04:35 PM   #1
mastercraft29
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weber 32/36 idle issues

Hey guys, last week i posted a thread and got some advice appreciate it, however it wasnt the fix.. Fuel pressures at 3.5-4 just changed all the hoses and fuel filter and added an inline fuel filter.. I also pulled out both jets and the idler jet was clogged so i thought that was it but still does it.. I have to keep giving it gas to get it started and sometimes it will sit there and idle but then out of no where it cuts out and dies.. There was some dirt and stuff in the gas when i pulled the filter off, and i thought maybe it could be water in the gas so i added some sea foam to the gas.. I cant figure out whats wrong with it! :0 Ill copy and paste my original post below.. Thanks in advance!

Hey guys, I am having some trouble with my weber.. Last weekend I was out driving and out of no where it hesitated and died.. After about 20 minutes I got it to start back up and got a few miles down the road and it did the same thing, i ended up getting it towed home.. I can get it to start by pumping the gas but it wont idle, if you keep on the gas and keep the rpms high it sounds great but as soon as you let off, when it should idle it dies.. Ive changed the fuel pump and its getting plenty of gas just not at idle.. Im thinking its something in the carb like a float stuck or something, but i dont have a lot of experience on this weber carb as far as adjustments or floats. If anyone has a diagram or any tips with the weber please let me know.. ill give more specs on my motor below..

straight six bored 40 over HEI distributer with nutter (so i know its not the ICM) no fuel regulator, weber 32/36

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Unread 09-04-2011, 08:39 AM   #2
mcmud
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastercraft29 View Post
..... I also pulled out both jets and the idler jet was clogged so i thought that was it but still does it.. I have to keep giving it gas to get it started and sometimes it will sit there and idle but then out of no where it cuts out and dies.

...... I can get it to start by pumping the gas but it wont idle, if you keep on the gas and keep the rpms high it sounds great but as soon as you let off, when it should idle it dies..
Give us an idea of the rpm range that will allow it to continue running.



Often, once debris enters the bowl, clearing the slow speed (idle) jet and its holder allows the next particles to enter.

There may be debris in the fuel feed channel too large to enter the jet, resting at the aperture inside the body where the jet tip seats.

If a recheck of the jets and their holders finds them clear look into the threaded holes to the aperture inside. If you see debris, try to pick it rather than using cleaner or air in here.

If these are clear remove the mixture screw and apply a blast or two of air or cleaner inside that threaded hole while the primary bore slow speed jet and holder are removed.

Reset the screw to the same position and see if it clears up.

If this clears the issue remove the large brass plug between the two fuel inlets, inside you'll find a strainer, check on its condition.

If neither is found at fault have a look to the speed and mixture screws settings.
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Unread 09-06-2011, 07:32 AM   #3
mastercraft29
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Thanks for your input... As far as the RPMS i would say about 1500 - 2000 is needed to keep it running.. There is definately stuff in my gas, when i changed the fuel filter i saw some.. So i am thinking there must be debris clogged in the carb.. I plan on dropping the tank cleaning it, and then taking the carb off and cleaning it.. hopefully it works!
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Unread 09-30-2011, 07:57 PM   #4
mastercraft29
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Alright mcmud I need your help man.... I can see you know like everything about these carbs so here is what i have done so far.. I totally cleaned out the carb all the jets are clean, it wasnt that dirty (its less than a year old).. only one jet in the bowl and the idle jet had residue .. the carb is getting gas (i have a clear filter) so i can see that it is consistently getting gas and i checked the fuel pressure 3.5 just like it should be.. i readjusted the idle mixture screw and cleaned the inside.. it will start up fine when its cold and run but it seems like as soon as it warms up and the choke plate is open up is when it will just stall.. sometimes it will cut out for a second and then still run.. i can keep it running if i keep reving it but then it will shoot white smoke out of the carb sometimes a lot like back firing through the carb.. i tightened the header/intake bolts just in case for a vacuum leak and the base plate of the carb and inspected the vacuum hoses, they seem to be fine.. i have been reading some on the accelerator pump and i plan on taking it off tomorrow to inspect it, is there a way i can test it? is there anything else i should look into or any other tests i can perform?
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Unread 10-01-2011, 01:14 AM   #5
Matt1981CJ7
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Does your fuel filter have the return line, and is it hooked up and working?

Also, does the white smoke smell sweet, and does it blow out the tailpipe, too? If so, you could have a bad head gasket and you are getting antifreeze in the combustion chamber.

Just trying to throw chit against the wall to see if anything sticks.....

Matt
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Unread 10-01-2011, 06:44 AM   #6
wellmax
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i have one of these carbs on my 1984 cj-7.

when it stops idling properly, i pull the jets out and spray carb cleaner into the holes where jets are located. most times that works.

i then change fuel filters,
be sure to install it correctly, center outlet to carb and second outlet must be located above the center outlet routed to return to tank. (correct if my memory serves me)
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Unread 10-01-2011, 07:54 AM   #7
mcmud
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If it is running well only while the choke is activated, causing a richened mixture, then stalling/popping thereafter it seems as though there is something causing the mixture to be too lean.... where do you have the adjuster screws and initial timing set.

The white mist spit back is often indicative of a throttle plate (speed screw) being opened too far.

The settings should be; speed screw no more than 1-1/2 turns in after contact and the mixture screw within a range of 1-3/4 to 2-1/4 turns out from seated. Do you need a Weber tune guideline?

Although this doesn't in any way read as being an issue with the accel pump (not in play while the engine should be idling) test it while the engine isn't running by opening the throttle. Looking into the primary throat, that stream from the shooter (nozzel,jet) should be constant through the stroke, no sign of a broken/spitting spray, if it spits there may be a clog inside that jet.
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Unread 10-01-2011, 12:21 PM   #8
mastercraft29
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Im not exactly sure what the time is set at I dont have a timing light.. I know it is advanced a little more than specs.. i have the adjuster screw which i believe is the idle mixture screw at the base of the carb at 2 turns out, it seems to like it best there, which is inside the relm of lean and rich.. i just reajusted the speed screw to about .75-1 turn in, had no effect on the running it still dies out.. i tested the accelerator pump as you described and it shoots a steady steam when the engine is off.. however i did notice just now that when it is running it is not a constant stream it drips and spits.. does this mean it needs the mixture needs to be richened? what would cause it to spit while its running and shoot a steady stream while its off?

matt thanks for your suggestion however i dont think thats it.. everything is brand new on this motor and up until a few weeks ago it ran fine.. its got to be something in the carb or fuel related.. it does burn oil due to one of the seats not setting right but other than the oil out the tail pipe nothing else..
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Unread 10-02-2011, 07:57 PM   #9
mcmud
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastercraft29 View Post
Im not exactly sure what the time is set at I dont have a timing light.. I know it is advanced a little more than specs..
Gotta have access to one, pawn shop, acquaintance, local parts store.

Quote:
i have the adjuster screw which i believe is the idle mixture screw at the base of the carb at 2 turns out, it seems to like it best there, which is inside the relm of lean and rich..
Yeah, IF the speed screw is set to spec.

Quote:
i just reajusted the speed screw to about .75-1 turn in, had no effect on the running it still dies out..
Can't expect it to idle at 3/4 to 1 turn in, try 1-1/2 turns.
If it regains the ability to idle reset this screw to the innermost setting that will still allow zero vacuum at the "S" port nipple. This speed screw setting must be done after the choke is either in full opened position due to engine heat or held open while you open and close the throttle, then adjust the screw.

Quote:
i tested the accelerator pump as you described and it shoots a steady steam when the engine is off.. however i did notice just now that when it is running it is not a constant stream it drips and spits.. does this mean it needs the mixture needs to be richened? what would cause it to spit while its running and shoot a steady stream while its off?
Most likely cause is the air velocity causing the squirt to bounce around. Once you are able to restore a smooth idle recheck the accel spray. It isn't contributing to the no idle issue.
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Unread 10-04-2011, 06:13 PM   #10
mastercraft29
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I am going to borrow a timing light this weekend.. do you know what a good range to set it at is? I readjusted the speed screw to 1.75 didnt seem to make any difference.. Is there any other tests i can run this week before i get the timing light? The last thing I want to do is drop the tank.. its getting gas and I ran hose to a seperate gas tank and it still wouldnt idle so I dont think its anything with the tank, its got to be something in the carb.. The only thing I didnt do when I cleaned it out was take the floats off and clean them.. Is there a jet in there around the floats that maybe I missed?? I took out all 6 and the 2 cylinders..
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Unread 10-04-2011, 06:32 PM   #11
mcmud
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I forget, have you recorded/reported the idle jets sizes?
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Unread 10-04-2011, 06:45 PM   #12
swatson454
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Follow what mcmud has recommended for your idle speed screw setting. That one is an absolute and can't be fudged. Actually, follow what he recommended for the mixture screw as well. It's quite a bit more flexible but we've got to get you up and running and he can do that.

I just had an interesting situation with an intermittent, lean idle condition. One day it was right on and the next it was lean coughing. I pulled the idle jets the other night to give them a 'once over' and when I blew through the back of the jet, all three holes were clear. When I blew through the front of the jet, however, the tiniest little flake of Lord knows what would cover roughly half of the area of the fuel passage (the tip of the jet). I don't know what the hell it was or how it got there as my screen in the fuel inlet was spotless but, never-the-less, there it was. A quick swab with a q-tip and it's been flawless since then. Come to think of it, I'd really like to know what the hell that was and where it came from.

The point is, you sometimes almost need to be a mad scientist when checking those jets out. As for your timing, I'd start with 10* at idle with the vacuum advance disconnected and plugged and see where that gets you. The higher you can get at idle speed without causing any detonation under load, the better off you'll be.
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Unread 10-04-2011, 07:00 PM   #13
mcmud
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You've made a good point with the clog in the jet.
I've often found little flakes of a black material in the bowl, in the channels that feed the well and the idle jets that were too large to pass through the fuel passage as well as bits inside the jet...always wondering what it was and how it gets into the bowl.

While speaking with Paul Abbott he mentioned that it is flakes from the sealing edges of the Weber gauze air filter that enter the bowl vents.
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Unread 10-04-2011, 07:19 PM   #14
swatson454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmud View Post
You've made a good point with the clog in the jet.
I've often found little flakes of a black material in the bowl, in the channels that feed the well and the idle jets that were too large to pass through the fuel passage as well as bits inside the jet...always wondering what it was and how it gets into the bowl.

While speaking with Paul Abbott he mentioned that it is flakes from the sealing edges of the Weber gauze air filter that enter the bowl vents.
Yeah, that flake was an interesting deal. Had I been in a hurry or maybe not known what I was looking for, I could've easily overlooked it.

Paul is a cool dude and I'm glad you turned me on to him http://www.performanceoriented.com/ For those of you who don't know him, he does a lot of old-school, multi-carb Webers on old Porsches, etc. We were talking about idle air bleeds one day and he said something along the lines of "just try to get your idle to around 1,000 rpm and let's see where your air/fuel mixture is." I said "dude, we can't get more than maybe 750 rpm with a Weber 38 without exposing the progression holes." He said "WHAT!" Lol.

This goes back to some older threads saying that a 38 is way tooo000 big for a 258 and it's for race applications only. Not a chance!
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Unread 10-04-2011, 09:36 PM   #15
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If all else fails it may be time for a compression test.

In fact if it were me I'd do it now. And if no dead cylinders then go back to putting the screws at recommended settings and start over. (which needs done anyway..... everything back to base line and start over)
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