Weber 32/36 DGEV question - JeepForum.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 36 Old 02-23-2008, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
CompGuru
Registered User
 
CompGuru's Avatar
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Grover Beach, CA
Posts: 201
Weber 32/36 DGEV question

I just bought a Weber 32/36 DGEV to replace my carter and I have a few questions before I install it and will gladly take any and all suggestions or tips and tricks.

1) What do I do with the stepper motor?

2) Would doing the "Nutter Bypass" have any effect on the install?

3) Which vacuum lines can I get rid of safely without raising eyebrows with the CA smoggies? (I bought the kit with the adapter for the OEM air cleaner).

4) I see that some people have the EGR plugged and some don't....Which should I do and why? ( I have to remain somewhat smog legal for CA).

5) Why do I have to partially drain the radiator fluid as stated in the instructions?

Thank you in advance for your help. I should be installing the Weber on Monday. Cheers , Dustin.


1983 Jeep CJ7 White

Team Rush, Halogen Headlights, Nutter Bypass, more to come...

"There is no mechanical problem too tough that cannot be fixed by brute strength and ignorance."

"Remember, Amateurs built the Ark, Professionals built the Titanic."
CompGuru is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 36 Old 02-23-2008, 09:40 PM
kharmajavah
Registered User
1990 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 465
1. Tuck the wire harness that connected to the stepper motor away. You don't need it anymore.

2. Yes. Do it. Otherwise, the computer will try to monkey with the timing and things will be out of whack after the carb swap.

3. Technically in CA from what I understand, you can't do ANY swaps (but I don't know the age limit on those laws...Florida doesn't care), but if you have to make it look stock just run the nutter wires in the old loom, and keep all vac lines connected in their stock position, even if you plug them on the inside (with reversed caps, or so forth).

4. Especially in CA, keep the EGR operational. There are lots of vacuum diagrams on this board and on the web for post-nutter EGR-CTO-charcoal canister hook-ups.

5. No idea...I've never done that when replacing a carb, but I've never done a Weber.

I hope this helps as a starting point...hopefully Cali people will chime in for the specifics of what you need in that state.
kharmajavah is offline  
post #3 of 36 Old 02-23-2008, 11:26 PM Thread Starter
CompGuru
Registered User
 
CompGuru's Avatar
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Grover Beach, CA
Posts: 201
Great! Thanks for the help. The instructions state

"Drain some water from the cooling system so that the fluid level in the engine is lower than the intake system"

I can't see why it would ask for that.

As for CA smoggies I have gotten mixed statements about what they look for and not. SO I have decided to leave the spaghetti mix in and use the adapter for the stock air filter. Chances are the smog guy won't know what a carburetor is anyways. Thanks again for the help!

Dustin

1983 Jeep CJ7 White

Team Rush, Halogen Headlights, Nutter Bypass, more to come...

"There is no mechanical problem too tough that cannot be fixed by brute strength and ignorance."

"Remember, Amateurs built the Ark, Professionals built the Titanic."
CompGuru is offline  
 
post #4 of 36 Old 02-24-2008, 03:03 AM Thread Starter
CompGuru
Registered User
 
CompGuru's Avatar
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Grover Beach, CA
Posts: 201
My next question has to do with setting the timing. I did the Team Rush upgrade awhile ago but had to have a mechanic set the timing becuase I didn't know how. Well I learned how to use a timing gun yesterday. The only problem is that I read 3 different settings for my timing. I know this will change after the nutter and weber. In my Haynes book it says to set the timing at 12 degrees btdc with the dizzy vacuum disconnected and plugged. The sticker in my engine bay says to set the timing at 5 degrees +/- 2degrees but at 1600rpm where the Haynes says to put it to idle (650 - 700). Finally, the weber and nutter both say to set it at 8 degrees.

My question is that I am confused as to what rpm do I set it at and do I need to plug the nipple on the dizzy as well?

I'm so confused. I'm certainly looking forward to having a correct running CJ again. It won't idle at all no matter how much I screw in the curb idle screw and it gets like 13 miles per gallon regardless if I take the side streets or highway.

1983 Jeep CJ7 White

Team Rush, Halogen Headlights, Nutter Bypass, more to come...

"There is no mechanical problem too tough that cannot be fixed by brute strength and ignorance."

"Remember, Amateurs built the Ark, Professionals built the Titanic."
CompGuru is offline  
post #5 of 36 Old 02-24-2008, 06:32 AM
kharmajavah
Registered User
1990 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 465
Usually after the Nutter, people set timing at 650-750 RPM to 8* BTDC. A little less or a little more is okay. If you get annoying pinging under load, retard the timing just a bit. My 258 seems to run best right at 8*, though I do get a *little* bit of pinging when I lay into it up a hill or something. But...I have a YJ, so things might be a tad different (I tend to hang out in the CJ forum simply because more people here have the 258 than in the YJ forum).

You should still plug the vacuum advance when you set the timing. But, after bypassing the computer you don't have to set timing at the high idle anymore.
kharmajavah is offline  
post #6 of 36 Old 02-24-2008, 09:35 AM
Mike Romain
Registered User
1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Off the Grid in Chester Grant
Posts: 18,083
You really need to check the regulations first. I do not believe the Weber is street legal in California on your Jeep, only the BBD or another 'clone' with the electronic controls can be used.

Your idle issue with the BBD sure sounds like the 'classic' plugged idle tube issue. Stock the idle tube ends are crimped too small and plug up easily. (especially after running out of gas)

The fix is to remove the center venturi cluster and clean out the tubes. They usually need a physical ream to clean them. Then, even AMC called for this, you can oversize the crimp end to 0.032. Welding shops have these mini drill bits or files for reaming out torch tips that work well. Someone else posted about another source, don't remember where.

The venturi cluster can come out from the top. You just remove the choke plate, leave it's rod and unbolt the venturi. It then lifts up and spins around 180 to slip by the rod.

Likely yours needs a good clean though, they are supposed to get a kit every major tune up or every time you need plugs. Kits are only about $20.00.

Here is a link to the test and fix that isn't up right now, but should be later:
http://jeep.off-road.com/jeep/articl....jsp?id=277064

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
Mike Romain is offline  
post #7 of 36 Old 02-24-2008, 06:54 PM Thread Starter
CompGuru
Registered User
 
CompGuru's Avatar
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Grover Beach, CA
Posts: 201
About the legality of the weber. I paid extra to retain the stock air filter and plan on cleaning up the vacuum hoses but leaving them in. Many, Many people have stated that most smog places don't check anyways. So I when I move in the next year or so I will have to take my chances until the 26 year mark occurs and I get a pass.

About the idle tubes. I gave those a good cleaning when I rebuilt the carb about a month ago. I also reset the float to the 1/4" as recommended. My problem now is two fold (which hopefully will be remedied by the weber/nutter) one is that my electric choke won't screw down (the screws just turn) and it won't work. The choke just sits there and at one point blocked the curb idle so it wouldn't work at all. (I'm REALLY good at heel/toeing!!) SO I disconnected the choke and screwed it open so it doesn't bind. But now it just won't idle. Even after driving 13 miles to work. If I set the curb idle screw to force it to idle at 1100 rpms it will still die if I stop too fast with the clutch out.

Does anyone think that this is more than just the carb and computer?

Also does anyone have any idea of why I would need to partially drain the coolant to install the Weber?

Thanks in advance. Dustin

1983 Jeep CJ7 White

Team Rush, Halogen Headlights, Nutter Bypass, more to come...

"There is no mechanical problem too tough that cannot be fixed by brute strength and ignorance."

"Remember, Amateurs built the Ark, Professionals built the Titanic."
CompGuru is offline  
post #8 of 36 Old 02-25-2008, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
CompGuru
Registered User
 
CompGuru's Avatar
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Grover Beach, CA
Posts: 201
Can anyone with a weber 32/36 and nuttered supply some pics of thier setup afterwards. I am still unsure of how the vacuum lines should go. I think the vacuum lines were seriously messed up before the swap. Thanks. Dustin
CompGuru is offline  
post #9 of 36 Old 02-26-2008, 09:14 AM
Mike Romain
Registered User
1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Off the Grid in Chester Grant
Posts: 18,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by CompGuru View Post
About the legality of the weber. I paid extra to retain the stock air filter and plan on cleaning up the vacuum hoses but leaving them in. Many, Many people have stated that most smog places don't check anyways. So I when I move in the next year or so I will have to take my chances until the 26 year mark occurs and I get a pass.

About the idle tubes. I gave those a good cleaning when I rebuilt the carb about a month ago. I also reset the float to the 1/4" as recommended. My problem now is two fold (which hopefully will be remedied by the weber/nutter) one is that my electric choke won't screw down (the screws just turn) and it won't work. The choke just sits there and at one point blocked the curb idle so it wouldn't work at all. (I'm REALLY good at heel/toeing!!) SO I disconnected the choke and screwed it open so it doesn't bind. But now it just won't idle. Even after driving 13 miles to work. If I set the curb idle screw to force it to idle at 1100 rpms it will still die if I stop too fast with the clutch out.

Does anyone think that this is more than just the carb and computer?

Also does anyone have any idea of why I would need to partially drain the coolant to install the Weber?

Thanks in advance. Dustin
Lowering the coolant is a new one on me, I have no idea why someone would do that.

I would recommend you recheck the idle tubes. They are notorious for plugging up again right after a rebuild. One sneaky place junk comes from is the U shaped gas line between the filter and carb. The junk gets knocked loose when it comes apart and just pumps right back in on first start.

Another source of junk is the vent line up top.

To check is easy. Just open the throttle by hand as you look down the carb of the running engine. If you see droplets of gas instead of mist, the tubes are blocked again.

Oversizing them as AMC recommended works really well. They then are bigger or the same size as their inlet so they can't be blocked by the size of the stuff dumped into them or act as a log jam quite so easily.

One other idle circuit failure can be cause by a blown charcoal canister purge valve or the wrong plumbing going to it. (new carb won't help this)

To test, at idle, trace the PCV line to the back of the carb. There there should be a T fitting or solenoid thing with a line going to the canister way down on the drivers side firewall. At idle pinch this line closed. If the idle changes, the canister is shot or plumbed wrong. It is only supposed to be active when hot and at speed because it turns on via a ported vacuum signal routed through the CTO valve.

If you still have the solenoid thing on the PCV to canister, a T fitting should be put in to replace it, they were defective and the T is the fix.

I prefer a manual choke. Kits for that are in the $25.00 range and come with all the parts needed.

My carb runs perfect and I have tuned a bunch others to run as nice. I can sit a drink on the air filter at a 650 rpm idle without a ripple in it. It gives me a nice 23 highway mpg, has 'never' been the cause of a stall on steep or off camber stuff (I run sand pit and ravine walls) and goes like a scalded cat on the highway. 3rd pulls to 75 mph fast, 4th buries the speedo and I have no urge to find out how fast 5th will go.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
Mike Romain is offline  
post #10 of 36 Old 02-26-2008, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
CompGuru
Registered User
 
CompGuru's Avatar
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Grover Beach, CA
Posts: 201
Thank you Mr. Romain but the carter is gone now. But now I have a problem with the vacuum lines. I only have a dual port CTO valve and am wondering if I need a multi port CTO or if I can just "T" the Dizzy, egr, and charcoal dist vac off of the one port. Currently it is connected to the spaghetti mess of vacuum tubes at the back of the valve cover. I believe that the current vacuum line setup is reall really wrong. Or should I just leave it connected where it is? Pics would help! I already have the vacuum diagram so some real pics of a similar setup would be great. I have a 1983 CJ7 - All of the emission stuff is still there and I just installed the WEBER and plan to do the nutter as well. Thanks.

1983 Jeep CJ7 White

Team Rush, Halogen Headlights, Nutter Bypass, more to come...

"There is no mechanical problem too tough that cannot be fixed by brute strength and ignorance."

"Remember, Amateurs built the Ark, Professionals built the Titanic."
CompGuru is offline  
post #11 of 36 Old 02-26-2008, 11:21 AM
Mike Romain
Registered User
1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Off the Grid in Chester Grant
Posts: 18,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by CompGuru View Post
Thank you Mr. Romain but the carter is gone now. But now I have a problem with the vacuum lines. I only have a dual port CTO valve and am wondering if I need a multi port CTO or if I can just "T" the Dizzy, egr, and charcoal dist vac off of the one port. Currently it is connected to the spaghetti mess of vacuum tubes at the back of the valve cover. I believe that the current vacuum line setup is reall really wrong. Or should I just leave it connected where it is? Pics would help! I already have the vacuum diagram so some real pics of a similar setup would be great. I have a 1983 CJ7 - All of the emission stuff is still there and I just installed the WEBER and plan to do the nutter as well. Thanks.

The dual port CTO will work fine for the canister and EGR. The distributor should be direct with the T in that line going to the CTO.

Check this thread for a diagram. You can just T off the canister line for the air filter's EGR switch.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/nutter-bbd-carb-vacuum-options-519885/

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
Mike Romain is offline  
post #12 of 36 Old 02-26-2008, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
CompGuru
Registered User
 
CompGuru's Avatar
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Grover Beach, CA
Posts: 201
Ok. Here is how my vacuum tubes are currently set up (which I believe is wrong)

The CTO has two ports: The outer one is connected directly to a solenoid at the back of the valve cover. The other one is capped becuase it used to connect directly to the carter..

The canister vacuum is T'd with the ported vacuum from the weber which in turn is connected to another solenoid at the back of the valve cover (after I complete the Nutter the dizzy will be T'd in this line as well). The vacuum line from the left side of the TVS is currently capped because it used to connect directly to the carter but now I don't know where to connect it to. I would like to keep it intact if possible for cold mornings (sometimes it gets to 20* here in Vegas during the winter).

So my question is where can I connect the TVS to? Can I use the capped port on the CTO or does it need to stay capped or should it be open to atmoshphere like I have read several places?

Does it matter if the vacuum line goes to the solenoid first from the CTO and then to the carb/charcoal canister/DIzzy or can I bypass the solenoid altogether?

And finally, what lines can I get rid of safely?

I fired up the CJ with the weber and it idled perfectly at 700rpms at 8* BTDC so no vacuum leaks. WOOOHOOOO!

Thanks in advance for the help! Dustin.

Oh yea and I have seen multiple diagrams of how to have the vacuum lines. My problem is that it doesn't say what to do with the rest of the vacuum lines and all of the diagrams are for multi-port CTO's

1983 Jeep CJ7 White

Team Rush, Halogen Headlights, Nutter Bypass, more to come...

"There is no mechanical problem too tough that cannot be fixed by brute strength and ignorance."

"Remember, Amateurs built the Ark, Professionals built the Titanic."
CompGuru is offline  
post #13 of 36 Old 02-26-2008, 01:42 PM
Mike Romain
Registered User
1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Off the Grid in Chester Grant
Posts: 18,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by CompGuru View Post
Ok. Here is how my vacuum tubes are currently set up (which I believe is wrong)
Your beliefs are correct.

Quote:
The CTO has two ports:
Correct, now forget where it is all wrong at now and think fresh.

Quote:
So my question is where can I connect the TVS to?
The TVS turns on the EGR valve and canister once the engine and carb have warmed up so it is a good thing to keep.

Your plumbing is simple, you run the ported 'dist' vacuum from the Weber directly to the distributor.

You put a T in this line and go to one of the CTO ports, no matter which one. From the other CTO port, you go to the TVS.

From the TVS, you go to the EGR. At the EGR add a T to go to the charcoal canister. Done.

Toss rest of vacuum lines in the trash or save for spare parts.

Quote:
can I bypass the solenoid altogether?
Yes, it is a recall part. The fix it to put a basic T fitting in joining the PCV line to the Canister purge line before they go into the manifold.

Quote:
And finally, what lines can I get rid of safely?
All the rest.

Quote:
Oh yea and I have seen multiple diagrams of how to have the vacuum lines. My problem is that it doesn't say what to do with the rest of the vacuum lines and all of the diagrams are for multi-port CTO's
Not all drawings are equal, the one I pointed to is the KISS version without the TVS in the last line to the canister.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
Mike Romain is offline  
post #14 of 36 Old 02-26-2008, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
CompGuru
Registered User
 
CompGuru's Avatar
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Grover Beach, CA
Posts: 201
Finally! Thank you so much (again) Mr. Romain. Now I can go and get rid of some tubes. Thank you again!
I will post again after I have finished this part.
Dustin.

1983 Jeep CJ7 White

Team Rush, Halogen Headlights, Nutter Bypass, more to come...

"There is no mechanical problem too tough that cannot be fixed by brute strength and ignorance."

"Remember, Amateurs built the Ark, Professionals built the Titanic."
CompGuru is offline  
post #15 of 36 Old 02-26-2008, 04:39 PM
Mike Romain
Registered User
1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Off the Grid in Chester Grant
Posts: 18,083
The last connection I like is the hot air flap for the air filter. That system works off a manifold vacuum source and is something emissions folks look for.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
Mike Romain is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Jeep Forums Replies Last Post
Weber DGAV vs. DGEV...differences? Stacydmcc Jeep CJ Forum 11 06-30-2009 11:25 AM
weber 32/36 dgev junkyard war gimmesomerocks Jeep CJ Forum 8 03-13-2009 11:36 AM
Weber 32-36 DGEV conversion? 1Rustycj5 Jeep CJ Forum 1 02-08-2009 03:33 PM
Weber 32/26 DGEV jatepper Jeep CJ Forum 0 08-22-2008 04:25 PM
Weber 32/36 DGEV question onesourcemike Jeep CJ Forum 3 06-15-2008 10:57 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome