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Unread 05-06-2013, 01:35 PM   #31
uptillnow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennLever View Post
Thanks.

I will start at the beginning as you have indicated

I do not know what F7 emulsion tubes are

I have a stock application here, no modifications to the engine and am not looking to increase performance. I took the computer, ignition box, and stock carb off as they were not functioning and am looking for stock performance. I have a basic MSD box for ignition and the Weber right out of the box bolted on.

Idle is about 550 RPM and low end is stock performance, above 45 MPH in fourth it is dead.

I will pull the secondary jet tomorrow and post it, my feeling is it is lean
I have never tested for results on a "Dyno" with F7 emulsion tubes.
I have heard, It seems to be, the "general" consensus is the F3 E.tubes are for the 3.0 liter and smaller and the F7's are for 3.0 liter and larger. Naturally it depends on what RPM range and what you are using the engine for rather than an absolute recommendation.

Fire suit on, extinguishers ready!


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Unread 05-06-2013, 01:52 PM   #32
swatson454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennLever View Post

I do not know what F7 emulsion tubes are
They determine how quickly the main circuit activates and help set its fuel delivery curve. They're located under the air corrector jets.



F50 on the left, F6 in the center and F7 on the right.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uHxz...ature=youtu.be

Water makes a pretty poor fluid medium but you get the idea.


Shawn
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Unread 05-06-2013, 02:00 PM   #33
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Sweet...
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Unread 05-06-2013, 02:30 PM   #34
GlennLever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uptillnow View Post
What typically comes in these progressive carbs are as follows:

.75mm Pri Idle
.60mm Secondary low speed idle
1.45mm main fuel Primary & Secondary
1.70mm Primary Air Jet
1.60mm Secondary Air Jet
F50 (both) emulsion tubes
Ok, two questions

one, if that is what is in the carb now, what should I purchase to correct my problem (assuming there are no other problems (I do not believe there are))?

Two would I be better off not screwing around with this card, removing it and putting one a 38 (anyone want a 32/36 cheap?)
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Unread 05-06-2013, 02:33 PM   #35
Matt1981CJ7
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Shawn,

Looking at the differences in the emulsion tubes, it appears the F7s lack any holes at the top of the tube.

How, exactly does that change the curve and main circuit activation?

Thanks,

Matt
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Unread 05-06-2013, 02:33 PM   #36
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[/URL]

Water makes a pretty poor fluid medium but you get the idea.


What am I seeing here?
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Unread 05-06-2013, 02:46 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
Shawn,

Looking at the differences in the emulsion tubes, it appears the F7s lack any holes at the top of the tube.

How, exactly does that change the curve and main circuit activation?

Thanks,

Matt
Holes above the fuel level bleed off the booster signal so more rpm is required to get it flowing and they'll lean it the whole time.

Holes right at or below the fuel level cause the fuel to rise up and air to flow through the e-tube with less booster signal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennLever View Post
What am I seeing here?
Just how it works. How the vacuum signal creates a depression in the emulsion well causing air to flow down through the tube and blow the fuel up into the booster. I'm pretty visual so I wanted to actually see it all happen.


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Unread 05-06-2013, 02:57 PM   #38
Matt1981CJ7
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Glenn,

Are you saying, with all that fancy dragster equipment you have, you don't have a wideband A/F monitor laying around?

They really do take the guess work out of tuning. You can watch the mixture numbers change as you drive (carefully, of course) and know exactly what's going on when the engine struggles.

How do your plugs look? A jetting issue as bad as you describe should show up on the plugs, I would think.

Matt
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Unread 05-06-2013, 03:06 PM   #39
uptillnow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennLever View Post
Ok, two questions

one, if that is what is in the carb now, what should I purchase to correct my problem (assuming there are no other problems (I do not believe there are))?

Two would I be better off not screwing around with this card, removing it and putting one a 38 (anyone want a 32/36 cheap?)
GlennLever,
Tuning the 32/36DGEV or buying a new 38DGES?
That is the question.
I would tune the 32/36DGEV for my own satisfaction, then I would buy a new 38DGES and tune it. This would give some satisfaction about the differences in carburetors.
UPTILLNOW
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Unread 05-06-2013, 09:45 PM   #40
GlennLever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
Glenn,

Are you saying, with all that fancy dragster equipment you have, you don't have a wideband A/F monitor laying around?

They really do take the guess work out of tuning. You can watch the mixture numbers change as you drive (carefully, of course) and know exactly what's going on when the engine struggles.

How do your plugs look? A jetting issue as bad as you describe should show up on the plugs, I would think.

Matt
No I have no air / fuel monitor, dragster engine was tuned on the dyno, and now with the mechanical fuel injection and blower is tuned by reading plugs, ETs and data logger graphs and EGTs.


I have never pulled the plugs on the jeep, it I do I suspect the will be clean as a whistle as I believe it is lean.

The dragster is a science project, I really don't want to make the Jeep the same. I want to drive it without messing with it all the time which is why there is no cam ot bore and stroke, etc. I just want stock performance, drive-ability is key.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uptillnow View Post
GlennLever,
Tuning the 32/36DGEV or buying a new 38DGES?
That is the question.
I would tune the 32/36DGEV for my own satisfaction, then I would buy a new 38DGES and tune it. This would give some satisfaction about the differences in carburetors.
UPTILLNOW
Tune two carbs, two projects, no, I have too many already. One or the other. Are you telling me that the 38 DGES will not bolt on and run either?

So neither Weber is set up for a 285 stock jeep engine?
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My restoration thread here on the Jeep forum
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http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php
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Unread 05-06-2013, 10:31 PM   #41
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My experience

I will add my two cents if it helps.

I had the 32/36 Deg and I was having some horrible problems with the top end and the carb seeming to be cold blooded. I had rebuilt the 258 and bored it .30 and added an upgraded cam so after over a year of tweeking and rejetting and timing I finally went the 38 Deg route. Before, I could never use 5th gear unless it was down hill and I rapped 4th gear out in order to get anything in 5th. Once the 38 was added all my issues disappeared. I love the performance and now I get to use 5th gear and I am running with all the other cars on the highway. Love it.

Stock gears on 33" tires with a T5
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Unread 05-07-2013, 06:54 AM   #42
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A 38 will make your life much easier, IMHO.


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Unread 05-07-2013, 07:09 AM   #43
Matt1981CJ7
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Glenn,

At your elevation, I think a 38 would be a plug and play with the factory jetting. They are setup for a sea-level application. The F7 tubes, which are a breeze to swap in, is a tweak that may improve the performance a little, but a lot of guys are running 38s with the factory e-tubes.

It's us high-elevation guys who have to tweak the factory jetting to get them to run right.

Matt
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Unread 05-07-2013, 08:27 AM   #44
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Why can't anything just be black OR white without any expensive grey unknown area????
My Weber is still in the box yet and I'm getting a headache from it already. What to do, what to do......

Great thread Glenn. Painful, but great discussion.

Matt - Who is this "Tom @ Redline" you speak of as being a forum user?
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Unread 05-07-2013, 08:40 AM   #45
swatson454
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Matt - Who is this "Tom @ Redline" you speak of as being a forum user?
I don't know if he hangs out here or not but he's one of the engineers at Redline. Redline is the importer of the genuine Weber carbs, not the knockoffs that you see floating around at "Weber" Carbs Direct, et al.


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