Warn Standard vs. Premium Hubs 84 CJ-7 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep CJ Forum > Warn Standard vs. Premium Hubs 84 CJ-7

Introducing MONSTALINER™ UV Permanent DIY Roll On Bed LineDan's Old as Dirt Birthday Sale!GEARSHADE Pocket Tops in stock and available at ROCKRIDGE

Reply
Unread 11-17-2011, 08:13 AM   #1
Boomer23
Registered User
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 44
Warn Standard vs. Premium Hubs 84 CJ-7

Got a question for you guys:

I have been thinking about changing my Original Warn Hubs on my 84 CJ to the newer Warn Premium Hubs. After reading through threads in the forum and doing a little research I have seen this is possible via a conversion of some kind? Do you know what additional parts (brand, website/store, part number) I would need to make the conversion possible?

Also, I talked to the Quadratec folks about the conversion and this is what they said:

"The Only difference in function between the Standard Warn Hubs and the Premium Warn Hubs is that you have to turn the Standard 180 degrees to change from 2wd to 4wd and in the Premium you only have to turn 90 degrees to go from 2wd to 4wd. This added function weakens the hub internally because of more moving small and fragile parts. I don't think its worth changing from the Standard to the Premium Hubs....the Standard Hubs are stronger by design anyway than the Premiums."

What do you guys think about the above statement? I am a Rookie at such things so I figured I would ask and see what you guys thought?

Thanks In Advance!!

Boomer23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2011, 08:59 AM   #2
waterdowg
Registered User
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: nj
Posts: 2,186
I just took my Stock Hubs off y 84 last week because it was alwys in 4wd. I never new how they worked. When you turn then the knob from 2wd to 4wd. It turn plastic screw and nut witha spring behind it. It slides the a gear over the axle and is locked by the hub it self. I thought it was interesting that only outer hub and 5 bolts made it work. I Didn't think it looked very strong if I were to do any really wheeling. My CJ is pleasure crusier for nice weather so I don't care.
But looking at tne replacement they look stronger. Thats just my opinion I have never used them just saw them
waterdowg is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2011, 09:28 AM   #3
Boomer23
Registered User
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterdowg View Post
I just took my Stock Hubs off y 84 last week because it was alwys in 4wd. I never new how they worked. When you turn then the knob from 2wd to 4wd. It turn plastic screw and nut witha spring behind it. It slides the a gear over the axle and is locked by the hub it self. I thought it was interesting that only outer hub and 5 bolts made it work. I Didn't think it looked very strong if I were to do any really wheeling. My CJ is pleasure crusier for nice weather so I don't care.
But looking at tne replacement they look stronger. Thats just my opinion I have never used them just saw them
I know exactly what you mean. Thats the reason I was looking into upgrading to the newer Premium Models and also because of the age of the original hubs. I don't think there is anything really wrong with the older ones other than there worn out outside appearance. I just figured while I upgrade parts on my Jeep I might as well look into replacing the hubs too.

So I'm not to sure what to think at this point? Is it better to keep the older ones or convert to the Premiums...
Boomer23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2011, 09:37 AM   #4
Renegade82
Web Wheeler
 
Renegade82's Avatar
1982 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Lewistown, PA
Posts: 3,196
It's a great question Boomer and one I've tossed around when thinking of ways to make the front dana30 a better axle. My understanding, and I didn't research it deeply, is that to upgrade you go to a 6 bolt rotor / hub which then allows you to use the premium warn locking hub. The benefit is that it's all metal instead of plastic. And if you were to upgrade the dana30 axle shafts, you'd want these better hubs on it.
Bottom line is, it ain't cheap to improve the dana 30 axle.
__________________
The end of a defining era.... JEEP R.I.P. 1941-1986
My frame off Re-Build: (still in progress....)
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/30...e-off-1280850/
Renegade82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2011, 09:39 AM   #5
CSP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 11,898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade82 View Post
Bottom line is, it ain't cheap to improve the dana 30 axle.
....and if you're not breaking it, leave it alone. Too many are caught up in this craze of "upgrading" because they read about it on the internet.

How many thousands of CJ's have been out there with the stock hubs working perfectly?
CSP is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2011, 09:52 AM   #6
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 9,955
The 'Conversion' you guys are asking about is the HUB,
The actual center hub the wheel bearings fit into.

Your factory '84 Hub has 5 bolts for your LOCKOUTS,
While the Premium Lockouts have 6 bolts, like the older vehicles had.

If you change the HUBS, you can use the Premium Lockouts.

The ONLY difference between early and later HUBS was the number of bolts used to hold the lock out body to the hub,
6 with earlier vehicles, 5 with later, lighter built vehicles after they stopped offering V-8 engines.
The five bolt lockouts are a failure waiting to happen if you wheel very hard at all...

-----------------------------

As to strength,

The standard factory lockouts were made by Warn.
They are VERY light duty, cast aluminum housings that blow apart,
They are thin walled, often fail with catastrophic results!

They have plastic parts that deteriorate over time and get damaged by heat/UV/Wear much worse than the 'Premium' versions.

IF...
You go with an 'Earlier' type HUB (the part that holds the wheel bearings),
With 6 lockout attachment bolts (Still 5 lug studs for your wheel mounting),

--You can use the MUCH STRONGER BODY versions of the Warn Lock Outs,
Or the Mile Marker Lock Outs.

I suggest the 'Premium' versions of the Mile Marker.
They are better made, fit and finish than the last dozen or so sets of Warn Premium lockouts I Purchased/Installed...

IF you have the ability to change wheel bearings, change brake rotors,
Then this is a very good 'Upgrade' for the guys with 5 bolt lockouts.

If you don't have the ability to change wheel bearings and brake rotors (all that is required to swap hubs for the better lock outs) then I suggest you do some research or take it to a qualified mechanic that understands what you are up to...

--------------------------


Quote:
Originally Posted by CSP View Post
....and if you're not breaking it, leave it alone. Too many are caught up in this craze of "upgrading" because they read about it on the internet.

How many thousands of CJ's have been out there with the stock hubs working perfectly?
If you don't wheel, then the 5 bolt lockouts are fine.

On the Jeep Clinic Weekend, we saw 3 blown out 5 bolt lockouts in 3 days of wheeling.
This isn't unusual, it's so common I carry a drive flange to replace the broken lockouts since we usually run into someone with blown lockout about ever other trip up there...
Memorial weekend the park is full, so in two years we've seen blowouts every day we were there.

For 'Off Highway' the factory 5 bolt lockouts do OK if they are maintained.

For off road, it's worth the money and time to do the upgrade.
JeepHammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2011, 09:53 AM   #7
WindKnot
Web Wheeler
 
WindKnot's Avatar
1977 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: , Northern Arizona
Posts: 2,671
New means new, it does not necessarily mean better. My Warn hubs on my 77 are original to the Jeep and I have no problems with them at all. When I do bearing maintenance I check them over and so far, there's nothing to report.

I "trail Jeep" frequently and I do use them, but I'm no rock crawler by any means. I don't really understand what you're gaining as you have to get out of the Jeep either way and turn the hub. Is it really that much more difficult to twist the hub a little more? Is the difference really worth the cost?

We all build our own Jeeps to suit ourselves, so of course do what you want; but for myself, I'd prefer to have some cash on hand for replacing that ripped tire or whatever is in store for my next "adventure". I agree on inspecting for wear and replacing "on suspicion" a problem part that's hard to reach or buried deep inside an assembly. But for me, hubs just aren't that diificult to reach or that complicated.

But as I said, we do what we want for ourselves and this is just my opinion. Yours is just as valid (or worth more seeing it's YOUR Jeep!)
__________________
Paved roads are just for getting you to the starting point!
WindKnot is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2011, 10:06 AM   #8
Boomer23
Registered User
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer View Post
The 'Conversion' you guys are asking about is the HUB,
The actual center hub the wheel bearings fit into.

Your factory '84 Hub has 5 bolts for your LOCKOUTS,
While the Premium Lockouts have 6 bolts, like the older vehicles had.

If you change the HUBS, you can use the Premium Lockouts.

The ONLY difference between early and later HUBS was the number of bolts used to hold the lock out body to the hub,
6 with earlier vehicles, 5 with later, lighter built vehicles after they stopped offering V-8 engines.
The five bolt lockouts are a failure waiting to happen if you wheel very hard at all...

-----------------------------

As to strength,

The standard factory lockouts were made by Warn.
They are VERY light duty, cast aluminum housings that blow apart,
They are thin walled, often fail with catastrophic results!

They have plastic parts that deteriorate over time and get damaged by heat/UV/Wear much worse than the 'Premium' versions.

IF...
You go with an 'Earlier' type HUB (the part that holds the wheel bearings),
With 6 lockout attachment bolts (Still 5 lug studs for your wheel mounting),

--You can use the MUCH STRONGER BODY versions of the Warn Lock Outs,
Or the Mile Marker Lock Outs.

I suggest the 'Premium' versions of the Mile Marker.
They are better made, fit and finish than the last dozen or so sets of Warn Premium lockouts I Purchased/Installed...

IF you have the ability to change wheel bearings, change brake rotors,
Then this is a very good 'Upgrade' for the guys with 5 bolt lockouts.

If you don't have the ability to change wheel bearings and brake rotors (all that is required to swap hubs for the better lock outs) then I suggest you do some research or take it to a qualified mechanic that understands what you are up to...
Wow...thanks for the information!

Lucky for me, one of my good friends is a mechanic about 3 miles down the road from my house so I wouldn't see changing the wheel bearings and brake rotors being too much of a problem...plus I could learn along the way!

My concerns, obviously are the wear and tear on the original lockouts over the years vs the strength of the newer premium versions available on the market today?

With that said, If I did choose to get the Mile Marker or Warn Premiums, where is a good place to get new Hubs with the "earlier" setup?? Is there a model that is better than others? And when searching would I search for a newer vehicle style hub?

Thanks Again for everyone's input...its extremely helpful when making these types of decisions!
Boomer23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2011, 10:25 AM   #9
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 9,955
Quote:
Originally Posted by WindKnot View Post
New means new, it does not necessarily mean better. My Warn hubs on my 77 are original to the Jeep and I have no problems with them at all. When I do bearing maintenance I check them over and so far, there's nothing to report.

I "trail Jeep" frequently and I do use them, but I'm no rock crawler by any means. I don't really understand what you're gaining as you have to get out of the Jeep either way and turn the hub. Is it really that much more difficult to twist the hub a little more? Is the difference really worth the cost?

We all build our own Jeeps to suit ourselves, so of course do what you want; but for myself, I'd prefer to have some cash on hand for replacing that ripped tire or whatever is in store for my next "adventure". I agree on inspecting for wear and replacing "on suspicion" a problem part that's hard to reach or buried deep inside an assembly. But for me, hubs just aren't that diificult to reach or that complicated.

But as I said, we do what we want for ourselves and this is just my opinion. Yours is just as valid (or worth more seeing it's YOUR Jeep!)
I agree.
YOU know what you do with YOUR Jeep, so I can't sit here in my underwear in front of the computer and tell you what you *Should* or *Shouldn't* do.

I can tell you that a '77 came with Warn 'Premium' lockouts with a steel drive body from the factory. Don't know if they are 'Warn-O-Matic' or not, but they are a steel drive body, and they are 'Premium' versions in '77...

The guys with 5 bolt lockouts on newer Jeeps have thin, cast aluminum bodies that like to grenade.
Just another cheap part purchased by AMC when they were going bankrupt to keep costs down...

I keep the 5 bolt versions in the parts trailer to give away to folks that blow out while wheeling, they aren't good for anything else once someone has switched...
No one in their right mind installs them when rebuilding the front end, so unless you need to scab one into someone that broke, they are paperweights once someone changes over...

I keep drive flanges for the guys with 'Warn-O-Matic' lock outs when the clutch rollers give up on the trail.
Whip a drive flange on that sucker and they can complete the weekend or get out of the 'Outback' without a tow...

I've never seen a Blow Out of the current Warn Premium versions, but I have seen the locks give up, usually to poor maintenance and no gaskets when installed...

I've never seen a Mile Marker Premium give up period.

Just personal experience, take it for what you paid for it.

----------------------------------------------

As to price,
Pretty cheap, under $100 for the premium lockouts most internet places,
And the conversion hubs are reasonable, Hubs, Bearing Races & Lug studs run $55 each for the conversion,
Or you can pick them up used for a LOT less.
Nothing wrong with using USED hubs, they aren't a 'Wear' part since they ride on bearings...

And I don't consider changing what might be 25+ year old bearings while I'm doing it an 'Excessive or 'Unreasonable' Expense,
I would use TIMKEN bearings when I did it, so that's some extra expense...

---------------

Compare that to a set of new factory style replacement lockouts,
At $185 and you are right back to having the 'Weak Spot' in the drive train again...

----------------

I do agree that doing much at all to a Dana 30 axle is putting pearls on a pig,
And keeping lockouts that might blow and save damage to something more expensive, like ring and pinion or axles, isn't necessarily a bad thing...

For the newbies,
A 'Weak' lock out might act as a 'Torque Fuse',
Blowing out under heavy load before something more expensive and harder to replace blows out in the axle or drive line.

I wouldn't bet on things happening that way, but it's possible...

In that case, you would have TWO 'Spare' fuses in a set of factory type 5 bolt lockouts for that $185 price tag...
It's usually the same side that pops all the time
(don't ask me why, I don't have any empirical or provable evidence why the drivers side blows more often than the passenger side),
But a set of 'Spares' would get you home TWO times for that $200 after shipping...

Cheaper than a tow truck, and capable of changing fairly easy on the trail where a tow truck can't reach you, or if they did, it would cost you more than $100 for the tow!
JeepHammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2011, 10:31 AM   #10
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 9,955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer23 View Post
Wow...thanks for the information!

Lucky for me, one of my good friends is a mechanic about 3 miles down the road from my house so I wouldn't see changing the wheel bearings and brake rotors being too much of a problem...plus I could learn along the way!

My concerns, obviously are the wear and tear on the original lockouts over the years vs the strength of the newer premium versions available on the market today?

With that said, If I did choose to get the Mile Marker or Warn Premiums, where is a good place to get new Hubs with the "earlier" setup?? Is there a model that is better than others? And when searching would I search for a newer vehicle style hub?

Thanks Again for everyone's input...its extremely helpful when making these types of decisions!
Ask here on the forum for 'Used' hubs, they aren't wear items since they ride on bearings, they don't wear away with use.
Someone here is probably switching to a bigger axle and will have the parts up for sale,

Check the For Sale board here and other places...

Having an entire front axle isn't a bad idea,
Extra axle shafts, spindles, lockouts, brake parts, steering knuckles ect. if you have room to store it...

LINK:



NOTICE THE 6 BOLT HOLES FOR THE LOCKOUT?

You can probably find them cheaper if you search hard...

You might try this link before you do the swap, you might find some ideas/pictures that will help you...

Link: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/wa...5/#post6395695
JeepHammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2011, 10:43 AM   #11
waterdowg
Registered User
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: nj
Posts: 2,186
Does Warn make an all metal out side housing to replace the cast metal one on a 5 bolt? Is the outside case the point or are gears weak also. Just by looking at mine the outside metal casting looked like the weak part.
waterdowg is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2011, 10:45 AM   #12
JeepFish1979
Registered User
1979 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Gautier, Mississippi
Posts: 145
Hammer, I see in the quadratec catalog a mile marker "supreme locking hubs" are these the ones you're talking about? Just making sure.
JeepFish1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2011, 10:47 AM   #13
mopar346
Registered User
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Quincy, Florida
Posts: 2,656
The weakest link breaks. For this reason SOME prefer to leave weaker lock outs on their front end, they will give up first and are quick and easy to replace in the woods. Axles, not so much.
twocents.gif

__________________
Careful your character's showing
mopar346 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2011, 11:07 AM   #14
cjsteven
Registered User
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 33
I´ve got these http://www.alljeep.com/oscommerce/pr...roducts_id=887
as an upgrade on my dana 30.
I´m happy with the
These won´t break... but something else will
cjsteven is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2011, 11:14 AM   #15
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 9,955
Mopar346,
I covered the 'Torque Fuse' thing...

---------------------------------

The only difference in the disc brake hubs ('77 to '86) I know about is the number of bolts for the lock out body.
If someone here knows anything different, I'd like them to speak up...

From about '77 to '80 Jeep used a 6 bolt lockout body on the hub and disc brakes, and to the best of my knowledge base, they all interchange on the spindles,

While '81 to '86 used a 5 bolt and cheap lock out hub.

I personally have swapped hubs from everything to everything, bearing size didn't change that I'm aware of from '71 to end of production in '86...

----------------------------------

DRUM BRAKES DO HAVE A DIFFERENT SPINDLE, but the hub/flange will swap over from drums to disks.
The only Odd Ball I know of is '76, I can't remember exactly why a '76 wouldn't work, but it doesn't...

---------------------------

Replacement hub for '77 to '80 for disc brakes is what I use when I switch over,
And If I can find them I use FACTORY hubs instead of the 'Omix-Ada' (Import) versions,
So if you can pick them up used DO IT!

USE TIMKEN BEARINGS if you make a bearing change!
There are no better bearings than Timken, and AutoZone carries them now, so they are both available and reasonably priced!

--------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjsteven View Post
I´ve got these http://www.alljeep.com/oscommerce/pr...roducts_id=887
as an upgrade on my dana 30.
I´m happy with the
These won´t break... but something else will
That's an INTERNAL lock out, we have EXTERNAL lock Outs with drive bodies.
Not the same thing.

The internals stay cleaner, but they are EXPENSIVE to swap onto your vehicle!
You are looking at $200 for EXTERNAL premium lockouts and hubs,

While the internals conversions usually run around $600 and use proprietary parts.
If you ever spin a wheel bearing, you are down until you get another VERY expensive hub,

While if a bearing fails with the swap over, you simply get another stock hub from '77 to '80 and you are back on the road...

If you maintain the internals, that shouldn't be an issue, but we all know there are guys that DON'T maintain anything (like me!) until the wheel falls off!

One question, did you have to change the stub axle?
I'm thinking Jeep used a 27 spline stub axle while that kit in your link is for a 30 spline axle...
(Or do I have that backwards? I can't keep everything in my head...)

If so, if you break an axle U joint and hammer the stub shaft, you are waiting again for parts to get up and running...

-------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepFish1979 View Post
Hammer, I see in the quadratec catalog a mile marker "supreme locking hubs" are these the ones you're talking about? Just making sure.
A link would be nice...
Hard to guess which which one you are talking about without a part number or link posted...

This is the one I use the most of around here once the hub is changed to 6 bolt type...

LINK: http://www.quadratec.com/products/26100_001.htm



If you don't want to change the hubs, the 5 bolt version works REALLY well also to replace the cheap factory lockouts...
JeepHammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.