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Unread 04-10-2014, 10:31 AM   #1
Manhattan
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Walk Shortly and Carry a Big Handgun?

What's that old saying?

This is somewhat CJ oriented - 'cause I almost ran over a Chevy HHR in my CJ. Waiting for a parking spot as the driver slooooowly backed out, as that car cleared the spot, the HHR drove into the lot and made a B-line for the spot. I ignored him and swung in. Halfway in, we both had to slam the brakes (I knew this was coming). He freaked. I laughed. He backed up. I pulled in. I told him to pay attention - he's going to get run over driving like that.

He got out. And I had about as much size on him as my CJ had on his car. But, he wasn't deterred. He was all full of confidence as still bent about the parking space. By now, we're in the deli. He's still prattling on about me "watching myself". I said "Seriously dude? Do you really want to do this?" He opened his jacket to show me his handgun. I said "That's neat. You a police office?" He said "Nope". Me: "Just a little man with gun huh?" and walked toward the counter.

In retrospect, do you think I missed any subtle signs here?


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Unread 04-10-2014, 10:38 AM   #2
zillla
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Shoulda called the cops.. Even though he may have a CC, the disply of the handgun is frowned upon by the police.. He was actually threatening you by this display. I believe the legal term is brandishing a firearm. the guy is a wanker.
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Unread 04-10-2014, 10:43 AM   #3
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That is 100% illegal. Brandishing will get his permit pulled.
You have his plates and the deli likely has video. You need to report the a$%#hole.
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Unread 04-10-2014, 10:44 AM   #4
Manhattan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zillla View Post
Shoulda called the cops.. Even though he may have a CC, the disply of the handgun is frowned upon by the police.. He was actually threatening you by this display. I believe the legal term is brandishing a firearm. the guy is a wanker.
Funny you say that. He ended up behind me in line. I said (very calmly) "So tell me... when you showed me your weapon, what was your intent?" He said "Just letting you know that I had it - not threating. Not threatening you at all. I should apologize. I think we got excited about the parking spot. Kinda dumb really. I'm at fault here... my fault..."

My guess is he's well aware of the law... and that he was getting close that line.

I'm friends with the owner - a retired cop. The place is usually crawling with LEOs. I'll run it by my friend. I didn't want to out the guy in my friend's deli - make a big deal, scare customers, rumor mill churns... hurts his business. Backchannels work too
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Unread 04-10-2014, 11:14 AM   #5
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Back channels are sometimes even better....
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Unread 04-10-2014, 12:24 PM   #6
nacheswheelin
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He might try to kidnap you and drag you back to the compound.
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Unread 04-10-2014, 12:24 PM   #7
LumpyGrits
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Why, for one minute do you think that this is the first time that Arse Hat has done, what he did, to you. YOU, should have reported him!
FWIW: About 5 years ago, had a idiot 'flash' me his gun in a parking lot(like'n to your deal), not only did I disarm him. I held him for the po-po. My idiot, went straight to jail.
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Unread 04-10-2014, 12:58 PM   #8
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I'm certainly no expert in Georgia law, but if he DIDN'T unholster the weapon it appears that he didn't brandish. Laws vary by state, but it appears in Georgia you have to actually aim the weapon.

It is unlawful to point a firearm, loaded or not, at another person not necessary in defense of life, health, and property. A person is justified in using threats or force to the degree they reasonably believe it is necessary to stop another person's imminent use of unlawful force. So the question is, "Did he THREATEN to use force, or did exposing a HOLSTERED weapon imply a threat?

In Arizona, it could be argued it was a "defensive display" which is completely legal.

"Defensive display of a firearm" means: 1 - Verbally telling someone that you have a firearm or can get one; 2 - Exposing or displaying a gun in a way that a reasonable person would understand means you can protect yourself against illegal physical or deadly physical force; and 3 - Placing your hand on a firearm while it is in your pocket, purse or other means of containment or transport.

Defensive display is justified when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe physical force is immediately necessary to protect yourself against another person's use or attempted use of unlawful physical or deadly physical force. A defensive display is not required before using or threatening physical force, in a situation where you would be justified in using or threatening physical force.

Defensive display is not justified if you intentionally provoke the other person, or if you use a firearm in the commission of a serious offense or violent crime (defined in §13-706 and §13-901.3).

Since in Arizona you can carry openly or concealed without a permit, we tend to play nice and be polite. We don't get too excited at the sight of a weapon here; it happens ALL the time. Even in the big cities.
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Unread 04-10-2014, 01:00 PM   #9
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Damn guys... y'all got me second guessing my actions. I'm torn. That deli is a complete neighborhood joint. I'd hate to cast a cloud over my friend's place with all the neighborhood chatter that would've surely circulated after an "incident with a gun". My friend will likely hit the roof when he hears this happened in his place. And, he is connected - he'll handle it. It's ironic though - one of the few times there were no Crown Vics or Challengers parked out front... would've been so funny to say "Hey guys, he's got a cool gun just like you"
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Unread 04-10-2014, 01:06 PM   #10
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WindKnot... I'd say he'd be able to claim "defensive display". He didn't unholster it, or even put his hand on it... just showed it to me as if to say "This is how I'm going to handle things if this argument escalates". What sucked, and why I think he'd catch some heat, is that he was the aggressor in the argument. I didn't back down from his little rant. I stopped and faced him when he followed me into the deli (where he was going too) still running his mouth. He struck me as one of those little Napoleons who talks *#$& knowing he's got a trump card.
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Unread 04-10-2014, 01:09 PM   #11
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Well, not knowing if "Manhattan" is your favorite drink or your home town, it's hard to say. If you just arrived in Georgia from New York, it MAY mean you have some adjusting to do. Maybe not.

Here in God's country, the only people that get rattled are those that are new to the area and from a place with more stringent gun laws. New Yorkers, Chicagoans and Californians seem to react a lot. They're usually quite surprised when a cop tells them, "Yeah, they can do that here."

Take some time and review the laws and see if what happened fits.
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Unread 04-10-2014, 01:11 PM   #12
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He'd be in BIG trouble everywhere if he could be shown to be the aggressor. I'm glad we're able to talk about it. No doubt about it, there's plenty of stupid in the air! Imagine what would've happened if you returned the gesture!
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Unread 04-10-2014, 01:15 PM   #13
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While he may not have "brandished" the weapon by not unholstering it, if he has a concealed permit what he did can absolutely get the permit pulled. Any CCW permit holder should have this at the top of their list of things not to do.
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Unread 04-10-2014, 01:20 PM   #14
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Under CA.(PRK)laws. That is 'brandishing'. It was an attempt to intimidate.
I would never even think of doing that, as I would lose my permit in a second.
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Unread 04-10-2014, 01:23 PM   #15
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Not in Georgia or even your state, Colorado. It has to be illegal and he'd have to be actually convicted of doing it. There's no discretion; both are SHALL issue states.

Not arguing the stupidity.
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