I need to find estimated value of all original 1983 Jeep CJ-7 Limited in Copper Metallic.
It's a 5 speed with the Inline 6 engine. It has factory A/C, factory hard top which even has the original liner, original carpets throughout which are still in good condition, even has the original Jeep carpeted floor-mats with the rubber edging that says Jeep at the back edge though the tan rubber around the edges is starting to take on a slightly chalky look right at the edges. The dash and upholstery look great showing only a little wear on the outside edge of the drivers seat (my 2001 Grand Cherokee Overland actually shows more) and even the brake and clutch pedal rubber pads only show minimal wear. I'm not certain but the seats look leather-ish (fake leather). The roll bars have fitted padded covers that match the interior, still look new, and appear to also be totally original. The Copper Metallic paint is 85% original, the hood itself was repainted about 10 years ago due to fading directly over the engine but they did a great job of matching the paint, you really have to be an expert to tell. The windshield frame is black yet appears to be completely original to the Jeep so that one kinda threw me as being a little odd. The wheels are body color with chrome JEEP centers and stainless trim rings, the tires are what I think maybe stock size (235/70R15) mild all terrains which I think are probably similar to the original Goodyear tires with the white outline lettering. Has a complete set of gauges including the tach and clock and they all not only work perfectly but even still look really good. This is an Arkansas vehicle which means mild southern winters and usually sand and not salt on the roads when we do happen to get snow which is only a total of about 1, sometimes 2 weeks a year, usually melting after only a day. We went over it this afternoon, even lifted up the carpets, and can't find any rust on it anywhere, even the frame appears to have received a black protective primer at the factory which is still holding up great. The only thing I can find that appears to need fixing is the that I noticed the pull handle on the door seemed to feel loose at the front, I thought I would snap off the end cover and tighten the screw but discovered that the handle seems to have a crack right beside the froward screw so any attempt to tighten it will probably just pull through. I'm assuming such a part as the pull handle in the original color is probably still available from restoration suppliers somewhere.
It has 83k miles on it but 4 years ago because it was starting to use a little oil the older (currently 86) gentleman who owned it brought it to my dad to rebuild the engine and while it was out have the transmission and transfer case gone through. My dad opened his own shop behind his house after retiring from 40 yeas in the Army as a master mechanic. People LOVE my dad, many of the locals will not let anyone else touch their vehicles. When he works on a vehicle he does it right the first time and with things like engines he takes his time to make sure everything is built perfectly with only the best parts. At the time the Jeep (according to my dads records) had 78,740 miles on it and it's now showing 83,041 miles. My dad said the cylinders at the time were near perfect and all he had to do was clean everything, re-hone the cylinders and use new original size pistons and of course everything else in the engine is also all new. Now just over 4,300 miles since the rebuild the tailpipe is absolutely clean and I would easily expect my dads rebuild to last every bit as long as the original factory build. My dad has actually done every bit of maintenance on this Jeep for the old man since 1998, just over 15 years. My dad says it is the cleanest, most original CJ he has ever had in his shop and has been that old mans pride for as long as he can remember. He said the old man always keeps it in his garage and always has, at least in the 15+ years he's known him and knows they have lived in the same house for over 40 years so believes the old man when he once told him he's always kept it in the garage. He also apparently only very rarely takes the hardtop off. My dad says he can only remember seeing the Jeep with the hardtop off only part of two summers in the last 15 years. Seems the old man only likes to take it off during very very mild summers, oh and the A/C works perfectly.
Anyway, the old man had a stroke and long story short(er) he's having to go into a nursing home. But him and his wife has to sell off a lot of stuff first or the nursing home will get it. The old man told her specifically to call my dad and ask him to pick up this Jeep and his equally impressive condition 1993 Ford F250 Diesel truck to my dad and let him find them a good home for whatever he felt was a fair price, and to keep a little for himself, whatever he thought was fair.
My dad wants to get them a fair price and does not want to in any way cheat or short change these nice older people on the value of their vehicles. While he knows the truck at $4200 would be a really good price for the buyer but still a more-then-fair price to the couple, but he has no idea as to the value of a Jeep in this kind of condition... So the question is, What IS a fair price or price range for a Jeep like this?
That's a Renegade so a lot lower (I think anyway, maybe wrong) level model. Also a CJ-5 instead of a CJ-7. Nice looking Jeep but that price seems high, are these things worth that much or is he just proud of it (maybe overly so) as you said?
Also that ones fully restored where as this one is an original one owner, how does the value of "fully restored" vs. "excellent condition original" compare?
I always thought an original would be worth the most, but then I'm a muscle car guy ('71 'Cuda).
I tried to upload images but I took them with my iPhone and for some reason I can't seem to get them off the iPhone and on to my PC, gonna have to take more with a camera tomorrow.
Laredo, Renegade, Limited, etc....are just trim packages. For example, I believe the Limited is just a Laredo with different decals. There's not a significant difference in value between the the different packages.
Around here, clean originals generally sell for $10-15K. Collins Brothers, in Texas, often sell their fully restored CJs for over $20K.
I have to admit that the more I am around this thing in my garage where we parked it just to keep it out of the rain (I am a Jeep lover but have always had Cherokees and Grand Cherokees) the more I am tempted to buy it for myself. Biggest problem is I would still want to give them a fair price for it, and a fair price maybe more than I can afford. A second problem is that since it's apparently a somewhat rare edition and in such original condition, I think I'd feel somewhat guilty if I modified it. I have a '71 Cuda and a '68 RT/SE Charger and while the 'Cuda is customized nicely, it wasn't a special model beyond simply being a 'Cuda. So I didn't feel guilty updating it with some modern items like all corner vented disc brakes, aftermarket stereo, etc. The '68 RT/SE Charger I restored completely original because it was a rare model with a rare combination of options and mainly only needed touching up anyway because it was a lot like this Jeep and mostly original and in great shape so only needed a few minor defects fixed.
The problem is I have wanted a CJ-7 or Wrangler before but always planned on modifying one if I got one. A color I like, larger tires, aluminum wheels, winch, custom seats, etc. and I think I'd feel guilty if I did that to this Jeep and unfortunately it's in what's probably one of my least favorite colors. Wish it'd been the metallic Red, Blue or Charcoal Grey they had back then. With it's original paint in near perfect condition it'd be almost a shame to have it stripped and repaint it. I also don't know what things like adding wheels/tires, custom seats (Kinda liking the looks of the Trailmax II Pro's with the adjustable headrest up front and flip-n-fold thing with headrest in back), winch, etc. will do to the value. My dad mentioned that no matter if we sell it for them or if I decide I want it, going ahead and finding a fair price and then paying them, since they need the money. Then deciding what to do with it sell or keep. I might be better to trade it or sell it to someone who wants this color and buy one that's more suited to customizing.
Have a question as a matter of fact, I notice a lot of people on this site (was looking around) have 32" or 33" tires and I think they look a lot better than the stock size. Are you guys putting lifts on the Jeep to fit those sizes and if so how much are you having to lift one to fit those sizes without any trimming or rubbing? and how does the I6 with the 5speed (no clue as to this ones gear ratio yet) work out with those sizes?
Still waiting on the rain to quit so I can take better pictures with my camera so I can post them.
Sounds like a well sorted and well kept vehicle, it will appeal to someone who wants a good condition stock vehicle.
As soon as you mess with it you may as well have started with a beater. The options on it are not worth a great deal unless they are all there and the vehicle is on great original condition. Take those carpets out and add some larger wheels and you are back at average money.
To give this old guy a fair deal will probably mean you pay too much for what you want.
The spec mechanically is not brilliant, it has the T5 car transmission and emissions and probably a low set of gears in the axles to give better economy. The I6 is a good workhorse but 33" tyres would make this combination slow.
If it was me I think I would flip it on to someone who would appreciate it as is and find a 79/80, with those options you want already implemented. This will cost less (you never get the money back on mods) and you will not feel like you are messing with the vehicle when you make further mods.
Well today I found out that he had a second Jeep we're also going to sell for him, a 1983 Laredo. Apparently when his son was still at home years ago they had bought it used for him (still only the 2nd owner) but his son lost interest when he left for college. The old man has been using this one around his farm since. It's not had the "garage treatment" the Limited has had. He did have the engine rebuilt years ago, the year before my dad retired from the military and opened his own shop so someone we don't know did the work. He's also got receipts for all new brake system, rebuilding the transmission, a recent new radiator and just last year a new heater core. Like the limited the old man has every receipt and paper for this thing. I have seen him driving it out in his watermelon fields but always thought it was a beater. Now that we have it here I see that it's actually in good shape. There is a couple of spots of rust in the front floorboard when you lift the carpet up, right where the angled part coming down from the firewall meets the floor part there in the corner, not big but its there, maybe dime sized on the passenger side. Also is a small spot maybe 1/4th of an inch tall and 1/2 inch long that's like a bubble in the paint maybe an inch or so above the highest point on the passenger side rear fender flare.
It runs good, has a clean tailpipe. But has had a different carb put on it with a manual choke (they drilled a hole thru the dash for the lever, yuk), and the temp gauge is manual, like has a copper wire running from the side of the engine thru the firewall and into the back of the gauge, even though it looks like a stock gauge from the front. I'm assuming the stock gauge would have been electrical right?
If I were to use this one as a basis for building a CJ7 it would need some work though. Despite running great it's wiring and vacuum lines have been hacked. I pulled it in our shop and spent 2 hours tonight looking at it but can't make heads nor tails. There is a thick harness going to what just appears to be two plugs with rubber caps mounted on the passenger side inside wheel well in the engine compartment. Maybe an old style diagnostic ports?? There is a vacuum canister on the passenger side that has hoses hanging off of it that don't go anywhere. There is a canister filter on the passenger side that has two hoses not connected to anything and two that do, one of which goes to the EGR valve, but there is no vacuum being supplied to the canister so not sure how it's making the EGR valve do anything. There are two tings on the center firewall above the engine that look like, well, I'm not sure what they look like, maybe old style sensors, they look like they once had vacuum lines connected to them but don't now but did have a wiring plug coming out of the bottom of them but if you disconnect that plug from the underhood harness nothing seems to happen. There seems to be a computer under the dash near the glove box, and some kind of computer module down on the inner fenderwell on the drivers side near the canister filter. Both are plugged up but I have no clue if they are still doing anything or not. Since the vacuum advance seems to be a single vacuum hose to the top of the carb, and the coil seems to be a basic old style coil, and all these sensors seem to be unplugged I'm not sure if those computers or whatever they may be are needed anymore or not. Some wires are cut in the harness, ok, quite a few are. Looks like the emissions was removed, or at least unplugged but not actually removed from the vehicle.
I thought I could look at the Limited to figure out the wiring and vacuum lines on the Laredo but that only tells me where they went originally, not what I can remove since the smog equipment has been removed.
Don't suppose anyone has a diagram of the bare minimum wiring that is needed to keep the vehicle and all the gauges, etc. running correct so I could just remove the rest of this junk since most doesn't seem to do anything anyway anymore and the whole harness needs to be cleaned up, trimmed up, and re-taped and put back into new wire loom. Such a job is right down my alley, but I need a diagram to go by to know what is needed and what is just leftover BS taking up space and adding weight to the vehicle?
Thanks for the link but it didn't really tell me what I truly need to know. I don't think there are any wires connected to this carb. Oh, the 02 sensors are one of the things the wires have been clipped on. I guess I need a large, detailed (found a few tiny images online but so small I can't make out good details) color wiring schematic so I can just go thru and clip and pull out every wire that doesn't go to anything that's needed. I'm gonna have to re-tape the wiring harness anyway, all the loom is cracking off, much of the tape wrap has been peeled off, and it's had some repairs at some point where part of the harness got against the manifold and melted it and all they did was use but-end crimp connectors to add in a short jumper piece often of an unmatching color, I prefer to fix them with correct color wires, soldered, and proper heat shrink tubing. So if I can figure out what color wires and where they go to that I do need to keep and which ones I don't I am imagining that I can just clip the others at both ends and pull them thru the remaining loom. When all the unneeded ones are gone then I can repair any ones that's left that need it and then re-wrap everything properly and neatly.
Actually my apologies, I just realized that link you sent had click-able links. Some of which are telling me what those things do. Such as I just found out the things in the center firewall above the motor that was still plugged into the wiring harness but had no vacuum lines going to them is the 10" and 4" Hg vacuum Switches.
Question: For those who have removed most of the emissions and computers... Did you keep your EGR valve or buy/build a block off plate? If you did keep where did you get the vacuum from for it? Is it ok to just run it straight from the manifold? Right now the one on this Jeep (and yes, I do plan on buying this one myself, and I think my dad is going to buy the other one for himself as a winter 4x4) is ran to the canister, but the vacuum lines that would normally come into the other side of the canister are missing so thus my EGR can't possibly be doing anything at the moment.
When all else fails, buy a service manual and start reading.
The site I linked to explains every emissions/vacuum system on an '83 CJ/258. Once you understand what each system does, you should be able to figure out how to disable them and clean up your engine compartment. That's what I did.
You can also Google "Nutter Bypass". You should find plenty of reading.
At the most basic level, you need 2 vacuum hoses for your 258 to run properly...one for the PCV system, and one for the vac advance. Everything else can be eliminated. Or, you can learn what some of those systems do, they aren't all bad, and reconnect them.
Actually we have several manuals on them, Haynes both a new one and one from 1985, Chilton's the same way, both a newer one and one from around 1986, and my dad has several old original military service manuals (one of which you could about BUILD a jeep with) ranging from 1962 all the way through 1981 (so stops a couple years shy of these). But all of them concentrate on how they should work with everything still connected. The closest maybe the 1981 military manual which does not seem to include computers or emissions, but also doesn't really match these Jeeps either.
Right now the PVC and the Vacuum Advance actually are the only two things working with vacuum, oh, and power brakes. Though like I mentioned there is a line from the EGR valve to the canister (which the diagram on the page you sent doesn't even show it going there at all). This carb that has been swapped onto this one only has TWO ports total, a large one in center back down at the base (connected to the PVC valve) and a smaller one right at the very top on the passenger side which is going to the vacuum advance. Never seen a carb with so few ports, the Limited has at least 4 or 5. Though there is 3 additional ports on the Laredo on the manifold itself, two small ones capped off, and then the one that's feeding the power brakes.
After searching for and reading that "nutter bypass" thing that was suggested, I can say that has been done, I was wondering what that was. They may have done it right, just didn't remove all the now un-hooked components and did not remove any of the wires the way I would have (and now will) to make it neater.
Not sure about dinky little, it has a nice K&N setup on it and there is nothing dinky or little about it, probably a much better air filter setup than the stock one was. A cold air system and a nice professional (K&N) model at that.