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Unread 02-23-2011, 05:20 AM   #91
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalxyBird5 View Post
Why is it that my charcoal canister only has three ports leading off of it instead four like in my haynes and on this diagram?
There are a lot of canister variations that can be plugged in and work when you can no longer get the CJ one. The usual difference on the tube numbers are the gas tank and carb float bowl intakes to the top of the canister can be combined with a T fitting to one nipple if it is a lack of one larger line.

If it is missing the small vacuum line from the CTO or spark port but has the 3 larger lines then it is an older style one that has the purge line going to the nipple on the bottom of the snout of the air filter (old style air filter), rather than to the PCV line T fitting behind the carb. These can be set up in a newer filter housing by adding a nipple on a 90 degree off the snout. As air sucks past the tube it vacuums out the canister fumes.

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Unread 03-02-2011, 11:39 AM   #92
waterdowg
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We it was finally warm enough to get there and look under the hood. I definitly have a 2 port CTO. Below are the pictures of what I got. Which is the E port, the one closest to the maniford or the one on the outside.
img_1827-medium-.jpg   img_1828-medium-.jpg   img_1829-medium-.jpg  
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Unread 03-02-2011, 03:51 PM   #93
Mike Romain
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That CTO is a plain switch, it doesn't matter which line is which. It only passes vacuum when the coolant warms up.

The E port is on the carb base off the front drivers side corner.
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Unread 03-02-2011, 04:23 PM   #94
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Thanks Mike. I will follow the diagram Mcmud suggested.
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Unread 05-12-2011, 09:55 AM   #95
waterdowg
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Wel I did the removal 2 weeks ago, and it runs better then ever. I followed the 2 port CTO diagram that I worked on with Mcmud, and it is on the money. Thank you everyone for all your input and help.
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Unread 05-12-2011, 03:13 PM   #96
mcmud
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I'm glad that it worked out well for you.

This thread as are so many that deal with vacuum control layouts and suggestions is loaded with misleading information. I've always cringed when I see it being recommended, but then it does contain some points too and after all this is a readers choice forum.

Maybe a layout with a five nipple CTO would be a welcome addition. Of course there is a view of modified diagrams on post 59 that will stand the test of time, but still, maybe one that indicates the exclusive use of the "M" word source is in order.

I've used the term "IF" several times with my comments here with regard to whether the reader intends to use the "S" port source for timing advance and then for certain that if that were the users choice never share that signal with a bleeding device.

The other side of that variable is to leave the vacuum advance tube connected to the manifold source.

Any Jeep that might be in need of, or the owner is convinced to do the 'nutter' while still using the original distributer (which was designed to use the "M" signal) but relocates that tube to the "S" ported nipple is losing additional performance. With some modification it too can be brought in line with what should be expected after the 'nutter bypass'.
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Unread 05-15-2011, 03:25 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmud View Post
If your intent is to use the "S" ported signal for vacuum spark advance use this layout. Then, since the CTO does not appear to be original you should verify that it will allow the signal to pass thru at the warmed engine condition with this configuration.
So what if i dont have an egr anymore? Is my cto even needed without an egr?
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Unread 05-16-2011, 06:56 AM   #98
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It would prove handy if you want to control the canister purge valve signal with it, otherwise no.
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Unread 05-24-2011, 01:58 PM   #99
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recently i bought my first jeep, a 79 cj5, and put a four barrel on the 258 i6. along with this instead of getting an adapter plate, i bought a new intake, the offenhouser intake system for it. i had to re-route all the vacuum, and eliminate the egr system completely. not really knowing what i was doing, and my extensive experience with vacuum on a 302 in a ford bronco, i guess i didnt do too bad. it runs like a raped ape. i completely eliminated the charcoal canister, and all the vacuum lines except the one that runs from the intake to the carborator to make the four barrel open and carborator to pcv. oh and the line from the distributor to carb as well. this is the first time i heard of this "nutter" process id like to check it out
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Unread 06-08-2011, 01:36 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79cj54x4 View Post
recently i bought my first jeep, a 79 cj5, and put a four barrel on the 258 i6. along with this instead of getting an adapter plate, i bought a new intake, the offenhouser intake system for it. i had to re-route all the vacuum, and eliminate the egr system completely. not really knowing what i was doing, and my extensive experience with vacuum on a 302 in a ford bronco, i guess i didnt do too bad. it runs like a raped ape. i completely eliminated the charcoal canister, and all the vacuum lines except the one that runs from the intake to the carborator to make the four barrel open and carborator to pcv. oh and the line from the distributor to carb as well. this is the first time i heard of this "nutter" process id like to check it out
The nutter is only for computer controlled engines, after 82.

The canister is sure needed though for a good runner, it collects the fumes from the gas tank and is the gas tank's vent. Without it ours smelled of raw gas bad now and then. It also is part of the PCV system which controls sludge and blowby so the PCV will be unbalanced without it unless yours is old enough to just purge into the air filter snout. It does not hurt power.

It will also run way better with the line to the distributor hooked up to a ported vacuum source. (one that sucks only under throttle, no vacuum at idle) then the timing goes full advanced when you drop the pedal to the floor.
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Unread 06-21-2011, 06:13 AM   #101
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Sorry to dredge this thread up, again, but that's the mark of a valuable resource like this one is.

Has anyone put together the definitive plumbing layout for a non-computerized 1981 CJ7 258 with a 5-hole CTO?

My Jeep had a combo switch/vacuum operated Sol/Vac idler system, which I removed. I then re-plumbed the entire mess using Mcmuds lower picture on Page 4 of this thread.

My confusion remains over the best way to plumb the distributor advance. Mcmuds diagram shows it plumbed directly to the CTO with no other lines connected to it. Other diagrams show it T-ing into the s-port and then to the CTO. I don't really understand what's the difference, or which one is preferred.

Also, my jeep has an air pump system, but it appears the only thing connected to it was the Sol/Vac. Now that I removed the Sol/Vac, is the air pump and related hardware and hoses necessary?

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by Matt1981CJ7; 06-21-2011 at 06:33 AM..
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Unread 06-21-2011, 08:01 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1881CJ7 View Post
My confusion remains over the best way to plumb the distributor advance.
You confusion is understandable. While there is a fairly standard layout that many people are using, there is still some debate as to the best way to connect things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1881CJ7 View Post
Mcmuds diagram shows it plumbed directly to the CTO with no other lines connected to it.
Perhaps the theory is that various things connected to a vacuum source may tend to leak which reduces the amount of vacuum (and therefore advance) at the distributor. Mcmud was the first person to point this out to me which lead me to test my CTO and EGR valve, and the correct port ('purge signal' port?) on my charcoal vapor cannister. The CTO wasn't even passing vaccum, even when warm. The purge signal port cannister wouldn't hold vaccum at all.

The CTO is just a switch that activates at a given temperature, allowing vacuum to pass.

But, Mcmud would ideally need to comment on his own diagrams. I can only speculate based on some facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1881CJ7 View Post
Other diagrams show it T-ing into the s-port and then to the CTO. I don't really understand what's the difference, or which one is preferred.
If you "T" the S port, then you'll get continual vacuum to the dist. If the dist vacuum comes from the CTO, then you'll only get advance after the CTO has gotten warm enough to activate. It seems ideal to go with the "T" method.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1881CJ7 View Post
Has anyone put together the definitive plumbing layout for a non-computerized 1981 CJ7 258 with a 5-hole CTO?
I would find the Factory Service Manual for the '81 and look at the vacuum diagrams. An aftermarket service manual should also have a diagram for this. Then you can see how it was done originally and see which vaccum source was used for the dist advance.[/QUOTE]
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Unread 06-21-2011, 08:16 AM   #103
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This one floated around a little while ago.
by McMud and GuacaTex
mcmud5portvac.jpg  
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Unread 06-21-2011, 08:31 AM   #104
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Ken,

Thank you, that explains a lot.

Oh look, waterdawg just posted a totally different layout. That one doesn't even use the s-port, and the advance is plumbed to the manifold with a reverse delay. Hmmm.....

That ones the simplest one I've seen, yet. Any comments on it? I really just want the simplest, most efficient and reliable setup.

Thanks again
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Unread 06-21-2011, 09:14 AM   #105
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The one I posted was put together by McMud and GuacaTex. GuacaTex also worked one with me that has the 2 prt CTO which is what I have. There is alot of debate on the "S" port and the "M" port so be ready.
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