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Unread 06-11-2010, 07:01 AM   #46
nichboy
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1985 CJ7 
 
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abernut, please post what you found out about the fumes. I have the same problem when i'm driving very strong fuel odor. when it's setting in the garage no odor. I've enjoyed this post........

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Unread 06-11-2010, 07:03 AM   #47
abernut
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Will do.
I am actually leaving right now to drop it off at the shop.

This has been a great post and I have learned A LOT.
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Unread 06-11-2010, 07:34 AM   #48
mcmud
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You would experience even more gain if you will re read and use the input I shared concerning using that erroneous diagram.
Sharing the "S" ported nipple with any bleeding device does cost you overall performance with having lost vacuum to the advance mechanism.

I suggest that you reconsider some of the input you have received and use the "E" port instead as that was it's intent, it is shown in your first photo and is labeled as being plugged.
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Unread 06-11-2010, 07:41 AM   #49
abernut
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I saw your post but then the following post said that you were referring to a webber not a carter bbd.

Is that not the case?
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Unread 06-11-2010, 07:42 AM   #50
Mike Romain
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It is cheap and easy to replace the electric choke module on the side of the carb, you can even get a manual pull cable type like I run.

The back window missing is for sure your/a fume source, have all the front windows open please and the fan on or the fresh air vent open when driving so you can post back here again and we don't see your name in the obits.

CJ's are picky about exhaust routing, the stock way is to have the pipe come out the corner on a 45 pointing down a little. It goes between the spring and frame. This blows the exhaust away from the back of the Jeep. If it comes straight out the back it will vortex around back there and suck into the Jeep.

The vacuum line for the choke pull off is at the back of the carb, near the center bottom.

As mcmud mentions, you might want to switch the EGR to the E port, although some flavors of Jeep EGR's 'do' run off the S port. You might see a bit of a boost in the pickup that way, if you do, please let us know about it.
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
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Unread 06-11-2010, 07:44 AM   #51
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmud View Post
You would experience even more gain if you will re read and use the input I shared concerning using that erroneous diagram.
Sharing the "S" ported nipple with any bleeding device does cost you overall performance with having lost vacuum to the advance mechanism.

I suggest that you reconsider some of the input you have received and use the "E" port instead as that was it's intent, it is shown in your first photo and is labeled as being plugged.
I wish I still had an EGR so I could see if there was a difference in the 86's flavor of one, mine for sure used the S port. There are 5 EGR's that I have heard of on 258's.

I did share that over on the Nutter thread, it is worth having in there, thanks for the heads up.
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
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Unread 06-11-2010, 07:46 AM   #52
mcmud
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The type/manfacturer of carb plays no part in in this discussion if when they both have an "S" and an "E" ported nipple.
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Unread 06-11-2010, 07:49 AM   #53
abernut
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In the first pic there are two ports plugged. Which one are you referring to?
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Unread 06-11-2010, 07:54 AM   #54
mcmud
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The left most. That one on the carb. If you want even more advantage I'll be happy to fill you in with further input but it will be a while. I'm slow but very conscious of what I post,... it must hold air.
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Unread 06-11-2010, 08:01 AM   #55
abernut
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No pun intended, right?

Please feel free to give me any advice that you think will help.

I just found a nice schematic of the carb. Let me make a few edits and post and see if it is what you're talking about....time to fire up PhotoShop
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Unread 06-11-2010, 08:28 AM   #56
abernut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Romain View Post
As mcmud mentions, you might want to switch the EGR to the E port, although some flavors of Jeep EGR's 'do' run off the S port. You might see a bit of a boost in the pickup that way, if you do, please let us know about it.
Working on a more detailed diagram now.

So the way I am reading this....

One line from Distributor to "S" port on carb.

Remove plug from "E" port on carb and run a hose to the CTO.

Do I still "T" the line leaving the "E" port before it enters the CTO and then go through the Thermal Vacuum Switch on the Air Cleaner before entering the EGR.
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Unread 06-11-2010, 08:54 AM   #57
mcmud
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There are several different ways that the CTO can be fed vacuum signal, actually from three different sources without suffering the unintended effect of having an air leak.

For the quick answer, run a tube from the "E" nipple straight to the CTO but on the same side (notice there are two sides) that you are supplying signal to the TVS and it will feed the EGR as the temp is right.

Feel free for now to keep the line from the "S" nipple (using a "T") to feed the canister via the CTO but attach that line on the side that is feeding the canister signal. It is not designed to leak at the purge signal nipple, it may however due to fatigue. We will see if it does a bit later.
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Unread 06-12-2010, 06:23 AM   #58
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abernut View Post
Working on a more detailed diagram now.

So the way I am reading this....

One line from Distributor to "S" port on carb.

Remove plug from "E" port on carb and run a hose to the CTO.

Do I still "T" the line leaving the "E" port before it enters the CTO and then go through the Thermal Vacuum Switch on the Air Cleaner before entering the EGR.
OK, the easy way to find out if you need to use the E port is to just put a vacuum line on the EGR and suck on it. If it holds vacuum, you have the type of EGR that can just use the S port, like the 86 I have used. I have heard of 5 flavors of EGR for the 258, depending on what emissions kit it came with.

My FSM says a forward delay valve was use on the 4 cylinder engines, although my 6 seemed to have one of some flavor so... My 6 also had the 4 banger muffler hanger setup too so who knows with AMC. VIN says 258.

The reverse delay valve prevent a bog on sudden wide open throttle so if that happens, the bog, unplug the EGR and block the vacuum line to see if it goes away, then get a reverse delay valve if you need it.

For your plumbing, when in doubt about the type of EGR, the line goes directly to the CTO from the E port on the carb corner. (or from a T off the S port like on mine) The CTO is a switch that only opens when the coolant is hot (115F on the 258) which means the engine is warming up.

From the CTO, you can T off and you go to another thermal vacuum switch TVS in the air filter that opens when the air going into the carb is warmed up. (40-55F) from there to the EGR.

The temperature of the air in the air filter is controlled by the TAC system or those flaps in the snout of the filter, when the air is cold (below 40F), the flap closes and sucks air from the heat stove pipe to the exhaust manifold until the air in the air filter warms up to 55F

This way the EGR will not turn on until both the engine and carb are at proper operating temperatures.

The TAC also prevents the carb from turning into a block of ice in the cold. Believe me is really is no fun to have a carb freeze solid at 55 mph in a snowstorm, no fun at all.
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
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Unread 06-14-2010, 12:30 AM   #59
mcmud
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Here is a layout that I recommend that you as well as anyone who has nuttered the ignition on the 4.2 engine use.

This is found in the '81 TSM. This particular sheet came compliments of this web site Jeep Service Manuals .

One is the original while the other I have cleaned away those lines and devices that do not pertain to your use.
81-vacuum-layout002.jpg   81-vacuum-layout-abernut002.jpg  

Last edited by mcmud; 06-14-2010 at 12:44 AM..
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Unread 06-14-2010, 06:35 AM   #60
Mike Romain
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That drawing is reasonable, except it doesn't show the charcoal canister tie into the PCV line. (in either diagram, which leads to even more confusion) I wonder why there are so many inaccurate diagrams out there for Jeep vacuum systems? Very few actually match any engine I have seen, close, but.... Here are some more: Late 80s CTO Valve, EGR, Purge Signal Confusion - Page 2

I would run the distributor advance direct off the S port also if I only had the seemingly more common 2 port CTO, vs the Ca 5 port one.
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
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