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Unread 07-02-2013, 12:10 PM   #136
Ken4444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-blaster View Post
..Then I guess chuck out the EGR and other lines?
Someone please chime in if I'm wrong. Not only am I a noob jeeper, but this is the first time I've been in any engine...
Had I known about all of this earlier, I would have advised to check for vacuum leaks. If you had any cracked vacuum lines, they should have been replaced. That's a low-cost and easy to perform step, even if it didn't fix all of your problems.

Anyhow, good luck on the overhaul! It sounds like you have quite a lot of work ahead.

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Unread 07-02-2013, 12:42 PM   #137
D-blaster
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Thanks ken. Seems like Ill be narrowing down to only two vac lines now, and they will be brand new. Man, I wish I would have known all this when I bought it. I got this to be my snowmobile and rainy vehicle. In fair weather I ride a bike. Now I find out the 258's run like crap without all this stuff the PO threw out.
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Unread 07-02-2013, 02:03 PM   #138
Ken4444
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Originally Posted by D-blaster View Post
Now I find out the 258's run like crap without all this stuff the PO threw out.
I don't think it's a 258 issue. Any engine that's been hacked up and modified will possibly run poorly. No engine with a big vacuum leak, fuel supply problems, spark problems, or advance problems is going to run right. At the heart the 258 is no different than most other internal combustion engines, and that means it has the same requirements as those engines to run well.
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Unread 07-02-2013, 04:49 PM   #139
MoC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken4444

I don't think it's a 258 issue. Any engine that's been hacked up and modified will possibly run poorly. No engine with a big vacuum leak, fuel supply problems, spark problems, or advance problems is going to run right. At the heart the 258 is no different than most other internal combustion engines, and that means it has the same requirements as those engines to run well.
X2

The 258 is a great little engine. If will take abuse and keep running.
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Unread 07-03-2013, 12:33 AM   #140
D-blaster
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X2

The 258 is a great little engine. If will take abuse and keep running.
Lol! My PO had the engine timed +18* retarded. I couldn't even see the timing marks. Thought my light gun was broke. I'm surprised it ran. 65,000 original supposed miles. Engine was obviously gone over after I removed the head. New but way worn rockers, ect. But the intake valves were soo carbaned up, I decided to go over the hole thing. Main bearings "new" but two had deep scrathes in them. Could see rust spots where the rings sat for some years. Obvious timing put some hard wear on a newly rebuilt engine. Once again, I can't belive it ran.


So, Ken... What do you think this setup I'm basically forced with, the aftermarket air filter, no ECM or canaster / fuel return, dizzy to m, will run like when northern pa gets there blizzard this year?

Last edited by D-blaster; 07-03-2013 at 01:23 AM.. Reason: Yes, I babble
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Unread 07-03-2013, 07:36 AM   #141
Ken4444
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What do you think this setup I'm basically forced with, the aftermarket air filter, no ECM or canaster / fuel return, dizzy to m, will run like when northern pa gets there blizzard this year?
I'm not an expert mechanic, and don't live in a climate that gets super cold, but here's my take: The 258 doesn't need the ECM but you have to compensate for the advance that the ECM provided. The charcoal canister isn't absolutely needed to make the engine run, but that's not a component I would leave out because it provides an emissions function. The return fuel line is important to prevent vapor lock in the fuel system (more likely in hot conditions), so my thinking is that you do need that unless someone with more experience could explain situations where it might not be needed.

Like many 258's, and probably every other size of engine, it sounds like your PO took the common step of pulling off all if the emissions-related hardware thinking that would magically fix whatever problem the engine had. I see this story over and over. While I agree that the late model 258's pile of ECM-related wiring, sensors, vacuum lines, connectors, and other hardware can be largely removed, it has to be done properly and with an understand of what one is doing. I believe it can also be done while still maintain a clean-running engine but you have to keep the catalytic converter, EGR, PCV, charcoal canister, and the associated vacuum lines to the canister.

I think that many people remove those components because they think there is some performance gain to be found, or they don't understand what the parts do, or they are too cheap to install working replacement parts, or troubleshooting work leads them to remove a part at a time which never gets put back on, or some combination of these. [/soapbox]
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Unread 07-03-2013, 11:38 PM   #142
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Thanks for the reply, that's what I needed, some others thoughts and feelings about my situation that's been with and working on the 258 for some time. I agree with your reply however am not going to go buy that stuff and put it back in unless I have issues without it that renders it necessary. At the same time I didn't want to spend countless hours trouble shooting things I have when the problem is something I don't. One again I appreciate it.
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Unread 11-09-2013, 11:57 AM   #143
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One quick question regarding the reverse delay between the manifold vacuum source and the 5-way cto ported vacuum switch. What "delay" should I be using?
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Unread 07-11-2014, 03:09 PM   #144
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Sorry to dig up and revive this old thread. I read throughout the thread and tried to find the answer for my jeep and configuration. I have a amc258, weber 38, DUI distributor.

From what I gathered, I need to keep my canister, CTO valve, and EGR valve. Is this correct? Do I need the CTO valve and EGR valve, And only leave the canister hooked to ported vacuum from the carburetor? I am sure that there are guys with this similar set up, and don't use a lot of the computer anymore as well, so I was curious what you guys are doing
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Unread 07-11-2014, 05:17 PM   #145
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I think I am answering my own question here, after a couple hours of research on various forums...

Things I figured out (I think, tell me if I am wrong):
1) EGR, CTO, Canister all share ported connections and help once engine is up to temp.
2) EGR has to have the EGR tube connected to work at all (mine was deleted, so no EGR for me)
3) A couple here have similar set ups and do not have to pass emissions, so they have deleted the system/blocked vacuum, used plates
4) A couple people who deleted the CTO put a temp switch for an idiot light / gauge (What I want to do).
5) I could use the CTO (need a new one, mine broke in half), and cap the EGR side, and use it only for canister.

What I still am unsure about, if all the above is right.

1) Can I use another ported vacuum port somewhere from my Weber 38, for the canister? This way I can get rid of the CTO switch and put an idiot light switch?
2) Where could I put an idiot light temp sensor? I have a 4.0 thermostat housing which will be used for E-fan sensor, and my temp gage will pull from the forward stock sensor location. Can I use the knock sensor location? Is there anywhere else I am missing? I want to try to keep manifold heater, so I will use that temp switch close to the firewall for that.
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Unread 07-13-2014, 11:48 AM   #146
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Unread 07-13-2014, 12:59 PM   #147
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Bump
Hmm, well you sound like you are using the wrong terms for things. You have no EGR, therefore you don't need a CTO really. With a Weber, you likely don't have the needed switch inside the air filter for it either.

The CTO has no electrical parts, it is a vacuum switch on the intake just in front of the carb. Your temperature sender is on the rear corner of the head and has one purple wire running to it.

So basically, you just need a ported source for your canister and if you tune them like I have my two tuned, a T fitting and line to the timing advance.

Lots only use manifold vacuum for timing advance and the ported only for canister, but mine runs like a dog and won't pass emissions that way, so I use ported for both.

If you have a real air filter, you might want a manifold vacuum going to that to open the flaps or to have the heat stove hooked up for cold weather running.
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Unread 07-13-2014, 01:57 PM   #148
dirtdudeaz
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That's what I am wondering Mike about the CTO. The only reason to keep it would be to use it for the canister. I thought I had read on a thread or two that if I pull ported directly off the carb, someone had comments on not waiting til the engine was hot, but I am not sure why it would matter.

I have the Weber air cleaner on it. Luckily I don't have to worry about emissions here in WA because of the age. When I did have the Jeep running, the DUI seemed to like manifold vacuum, although I don't think I ever tried ported.

I guess unless anyone doesn't have any inputs I will eliminate the CTO and put my temp sensor switch in that hole and use ported from the carb directly for the canister.
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Unread 07-13-2014, 06:43 PM   #149
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I am missing why you need another temp sensor? Stock, most canisters were direct ported. Up here in The Great White North, we want nothing on until it warms up.
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Unread 07-13-2014, 10:56 PM   #150
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One sensor runs the Efans (that one is the in the thermostat housing)

One sensor runs the gauge (stock location)

One sensor needs to run the idiot light

You are right that the canisters are ported however they are attached to the temperature switch on the manifold (CTO). The vacuum won't engage until proper operating temp. I was confirming if there was an issue pulling vacuum on the canister at any temp directly from the carb. I guess I can try it and see how it runs.
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