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Unread 01-23-2011, 02:14 AM   #16
andy_mitch92
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Originally Posted by cmvash View Post
Good god, are you sure there's even a gasket on that side?
Kind of what I was wondering....

I dont know anything about machining blocks, but if this was a rebuild was the block decked to take any warp out of it, or the head? The mounting surface looks not so nice, I can see some pits and stuff even from those pictures (maybe just the pictures?). From the little I know about doing head gaskets everything has to be basically perfect before you torque the head down other wise this kind of stuff may happen.

Maybe he didn't torque the head bolts down in the correct order and didn't chase the "wave" out of the gasket?

Good luck fixing this and hopefully the guy will stand behind his work and make it right.

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Unread 01-23-2011, 10:18 AM   #17
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Man it's a mess! Yeah, there was a gasket on there and some really tacky copper stuff (as the shop guy called it). I think what you're seeing on the block surface is the gasket goop. I'm not at all impressed by the machine work though now that the head is off, especially down in the water passages. The walls look very crudded up and it wipes out with your finger. He said it was cleaned but the coolant sitting in there overnight loosened some of it up?? It shouldn't be that nasty looking should it?

As much as I don't want to, I think I will pull the other head off. That leak does have me worried and I don't want to get everything put back on and it start leaking again. It also makes me a little worried about the cam, crank, oil pump.. things he installed that I can't see. The engine was very dirty when he painted it because when I got it home and pulled the tape off of where he had the intake covered it pulled the paint right off like it was sitting on a layer of dirt and grease. I took some pieces of masking tape and lightly stuck it on other random places on the engine and the paint lifted right off of them as well. I ended up having to strip the entire engine, clean it, and repaint it. That was fun. It wouldn't surprise me if he had dirt under the head fouling up the gaskets, too. I'll post more pics as I move along. Thanks for all of the support! I just want to be driving my CJ again when it warms up in a few months!!
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Unread 01-23-2011, 12:15 PM   #18
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If he really cleaned it up, ie, hot tanked it for you, then there shouldn't be any crud left in it to foul your coolant. That's assuming he took the heads all the way apart and actually cleaned them.

Coolant sitting overnight loosened up crud? I don't buy that. Even if it's true, he still left dirt/crud/detritus in there to circulate around inside your cooling passages/water pump as soon as you drove it after letting it sit overnight. A time bomb.
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Unread 01-23-2011, 12:17 PM   #19
littlebuddie
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Not tightening the head bolts in specific cadence or sequence can create this scenario too. Check those head surfaces for warp.
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Unread 01-23-2011, 12:26 PM   #20
cmvash
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If he was unwilling to clean the outside of the engine(I mean really, painting over grease and dirt?), then I wouldn't be surprised if he hadn't cleaned the inside of the block/head.

I don't want to put you down because I've dealt with ****ty mechanics as well, but sounds like he tried to pass off his half ***'d work on to you, thinking you'd be none the wiser.

I imagine your options are rather limited, but I would not let him touch my engine again.
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Unread 01-23-2011, 05:13 PM   #21
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He has the head that is supposedly cracked and is going to send it to whoever he uses to pressure test on Monday. I'm pissed at having to tear my engine back apart as well as what I now have to clean off and out of it (gaskets, coolant, sealant). As well as having to buy new head gaskets and an intake gasket. It keeps adding up: money and time. How the heck do I clean the sealant out of the intake holes in the block without making a huge mess getting down in the engine now? Also, noticed a lot of tacky sealant type stuff on the head surface as well as across the top of the pistons. Is that sprayed on or something?? I didn't think it was supposed to be on the pistons. Also, started looking at head gaskets on Summit. How do I know which one to get? They range from $20's to $100's! I got the Felpro gasket engine gasket kit before that he used on the first install. Should I not use any adhesive, just clean and dry gaskets?
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Unread 01-23-2011, 06:06 PM   #22
littlebuddie
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Is this mechanic licensed? Sounds like he/she needs to make good on some sloppy work. Three little words Better Business Bureau can work wonders in cases like this.
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Unread 01-24-2011, 10:20 AM   #23
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He is licensed. It's a reputable shop, too. They work on pretty much anything but specialize in 4x4's. He's building a rock crawler / baja racer for a customer to run The King of Hammers right now. It doesn't show at all on my engine though. It sat in his shop for a long time before he got to it.

Close-ups of the water ports and block surface.... looks like crap to me but I'm no expert. Some of the block surface is the copper sealer stuff and some may be corrosion. How do I check to make sure the surface is flat? The shop that built my short block is standing behind their machine shop guy.

If I ever get it up and running, should I hook a hose up and flush out the coolant system, would that help anything?
port1.jpg   port2.jpg  
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Unread 01-24-2011, 09:35 PM   #24
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I'm starting to get things cleaned up. Can someone recommend a good set of head gaskets? I've been pricing gaskets and there are so many options. I'm looking at these at Bulltear ROL .045" AMC V8 Hi-temp head gasket http://www.bulltear.com/catalog/prod...roducts_id=174. The shop that built my engine put Fel-Pro 8266PT-1 gaskets on it, not saying that's why it leaked but I don't want to try that set again.

Also, I'm thinking about running some of that engine coolant cleaner in it once it's running to help get some of that rust out of my block that the machine shop didn't bother to do. Does this stuff really work? If anything it would help remove some of it because the rust/sludge comes off on my finger at the head water holes.

Thanks again for the help and moral support!
port3.jpg  
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Unread 01-24-2011, 09:50 PM   #25
VACJ7
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I am no engine expert as I preparing to do my first ever rebuild.... but.... I question if they hot tanked it at all. I had my head tanked (before I decided on rebuild) and every passage is immaculate.
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Unread 01-24-2011, 09:56 PM   #26
andy_mitch92
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I dont know specifically... but I have heard fel-pro gaskets are just as good (if not better) than anything else out there on the market.

I understand not wanting to use them again... I think the guy just installed them incorrectly. I have seen people warning against using ANYTHING on head gaskets unless otherwise specified by the gasket manufacturer.

Again no recommendations, but the fel-pro head gaskets I have used in the past (GM 2.0L in an '88 cavalier and an MG, '77, midget motor) have never failed after hard abuse.

One thing to look for is to see if maybe the threaded holes in the head are drilled into the water jacket. That could cause issues with leaking past the gasket. If they are you may need to use some thread sealant on the head bolts/studs.

And YES good idea to run cleaner through the cooling system before topping it off with anti-freeze. Cant hurt, only helps and is cheaper than wasting coolant if you find another leak (hope you dont).

Good luck, and (again) I have no first hand experience with AMC V8 motors... Just throwing out ideas from what I have read about them... and learned with motors in general.

I hope I dont go through these issues when I start up my AMC 360 for the first time.
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Unread 01-24-2011, 10:35 PM   #27
mopar408
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x1 on VAC. When Duffin Enfine Service did NuGene's machine work, first order of business is remove all coolant and oil plugs, hot-tank it and steam clean it.
New brass freeze plugs, oil gallery plugs, cam bearings and cam plug and sprayed inside with Glyptol before boring and line boring. Ditto the heads. You could do surgery in that engine.
As much pain as you've went to, damned if I wouldn't just bite the bullet and carefully disassemble and save all your new hard parts, have it thoroughly cleaned and start over again. IMHO, you'll NEVER trust that Moder if you don't.
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Unread 01-24-2011, 10:40 PM   #28
nedmoore
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Your pics speak a thousand words......... Go back up to the shop mad as hell!
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Unread 01-25-2011, 07:33 AM   #29
Baloo
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I really don't think he hot tanked it either. Everything is really clean except the water areas, as far as I've seen yet. The heads are really clean, too. The water areas are filthy though. I've thought about pulling the whole engine and starting over, but then I think of the cost and time again and don't know if it'd be worth it at this point. I got rid of my hoist and stand a few weeks after I installed it. If I still had them, maybe.

I took pics of the nasty water ports to the shop that built my short block and he stood behind the machine shop saying they had cleaned it as much as they could and that the buildup just formed from the coolant being in the bock over night. I don't buy that, but at the same time, I'm tired of dealing with this guy period.

I'm going to clean everything I can really well, install new gaskets and try to get it running. I'll flush the cooling system really well with cleaner and hope some of it comes out. I have a high volume pump installed as well as a high flow thermostat. I hope they don't get gummed up. Should I remove the thermostat prior to cleaning and flushing with cleaner?
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Unread 01-25-2011, 09:20 AM   #30
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First order of business is to calm down. The engine was tanked. Look at the lifter valley. It looks new. The amount of "stuff in the coolant passages will not hurt anything. I question the use of " copper stuff" on a composit head gasket. Usually conposit gaskets are put on dry. "Copper stuff" is usually sprayed on metal gaskets. I believe the head bolt holes on AMCs are blind, but you could put a wire in them to check. A little sealent on the head bolts won't hurt anyway. It will help with a more even torque. If the head is cracked( not likely AMC is pretty heavy cast) that is not the machinist fault. He may should have caught it but it does happen. I bet new head gaskets( hard to beat FEL-PRO) properly torqued without "copper stuff" will solve your problems. Be very careful with the water passages on the intake. Follow the instructions carefully from the gasket manufactur.
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